Author Topic: diesel hybrid  (Read 6377 times)

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WindriderNM

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diesel hybrid
« on: September 01, 2010, 07:13:38 PM »
I just picked up a 3 cyl diesel 10kw generator mounted on a trailer $75. I am thinking of trying to make a diesel/vegi/electric hybrid out of it. I am wondering if i should use ac or dc motors?  Inverter vs diodes. Any ideas?
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Bruce S

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Re: diesel hybrid
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2010, 10:32:05 AM »
Will need to know a few more details  ;)
Who is the engine made by & Liter size will be good.
There can be a few gotcha's with some of the TDI and direct injection types that you'll need to watch out for.
Does sound like a great find.

For power that needs long distance I prefer AC from generator to where inverter will be then rectify the output to DC.
AC tends to have less loss over a longer distance, this would be the way I would go.
However, that does not mean DC is out, it can truly be whatever you have laying around and works.

IF this is to be a vehicle then there's a whole bunch of ways to go.

More details plz  ;D
Bruce S
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Rover

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Re: diesel hybrid
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2010, 04:54:32 PM »
I'm also interested in what your plans are, please give more detail.

Hybrid.. hybrid what? ... power source (battery charging, grid tie?) , vehicle? , etc.

I'm guestimating the diesel at ~ 25 -  30 hp... close?

I'm also curious about your inclusion of motors,  sounds like you are going for mobility
Rover
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WindriderNM

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Re: diesel hybrid
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2010, 09:31:36 PM »
I am thinking about transportation I have a 1958 Anglia car with a bad motor. I'm not sure  what size the diesel is it says  Tokya Roki on some of the filters and Toyo on the radiator and Phillips Diesel 18 HP  10kw Los Lunas  New Mexico on the generator. It is probably 18 HP. 
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Rover

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Re: diesel hybrid
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2010, 07:45:33 AM »
I am thinking about transportation I have a 1958 Anglia car with a bad motor. I'm not sure  what size the diesel is it says  Tokya Roki on some of the filters and Toyo on the radiator and Phillips Diesel 18 HP  10kw Los Lunas  New Mexico on the generator. It is probably 18 HP. 

I 'm not familiar with the Anglia so I did a little research, 36 bhp? roughly 1700 lbs?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Anglia


So let's take stock on what you have.  18 hp diesel generator as a replacement power plant. What is the output voltage , 110?

Kind of a small power plant to use in the vehicle, you are starting with 1/2 the hp, then the losses to get to 10KW AC

Probably more efficient to just use the diesel as power plant directly, even then you may need mount a mast on the Anglia and hoist a sail.

Probably doable , but efficient hyrid? , probably not . Wouldn't really be a hybrid per say , more like a diesel electric, unless you plan on mounting batteries, and coming up with an engine stop start , motor stop start controller etc... An if you mount batteries, well you just upped the vehicle weight . You would also want some form of regenerative power generation , say from braking, Otherwise you are operarting everything as a net loss when compared to just using the diesel output.






Rover
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bob g

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Re: diesel hybrid
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2010, 08:57:22 AM »
my vote would be to use it in a purpose built three wheel car such as the one built by popular mechanics back in the 70's

the weight would be low enough, that if you used the diesel direct as the prime mover i would expect some truely awesome
mileage figures.

the 3 wheelers classify as motorcycles here in the US, and as such can be built and titled far easier than a car which has to
meet all the crash test stuff.

the vehicle needs to be down to around 1200lbs total to get you something useful with 18 hp available.

does sound like a fun project though

bob g
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Rover

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Re: diesel hybrid
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2010, 12:34:52 PM »
With the originall engine 0-60 in just under 30 seconds... speedster :)

Drop down to 18 HP (probably shaft hp, figure the original car measured at the wheels), you're gona need some more gears just to get there, figure 0 to 60 with a gear change in about 1.5 minutes (if it can do it, no hills), good news traffic not an issue, you can't keep up anyway...

Convert to electric motors powered by gen, errr..... proably at least another 5hp drop, you will be pased by bag ladies pushing shopping carts.

 
Rover
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DanG

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Re: diesel hybrid
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2010, 02:47:20 PM »
If you were closer to Twin Cities, Minnesota there is a '99 Chevrolet Metro FWD hatchback parked out back weighing 1750~ pounds...  I'm going to list it in Classifieds here soon.

ghurd

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Re: diesel hybrid
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2010, 11:40:51 PM »
Only questions.

My understanding is most of that type of diesel is designed and intended to run in a fairly tight RPM range.  Because of oil issues.  How big of an issue is that?

'Hybrid' insinuates a battery powered electric motor... and geared/direct drive from the diesel.
'Diesel' insinuates a manual tranny.
Apart from the obvious, how in the world could a DIY guy get them to play nice together?  I have fantasy glimpses of everything from monitoring the intake vacuum, to speed vs accelerator pedal position.

VFD electric motors are efficient.  Controlling them can be a bit complicated.

B&S Etek might be worth reading about.  I had my doubts about them being small, but they can put a large mass in motion fast enough to <insert something crazy here>.
Not sure if the "copies" are the same, and some that are claimed to be copies by the sellers are not even similar.

Kennedy Engineered Products used to make a kit to connect any motor to anything else, just short of a 3.5HP mower engine to the space shuttle...
Or at least it seemed like it at the time.
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Rover

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Re: diesel hybrid
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2010, 09:07:58 AM »
This topic keeps ruminating in my head (using the Anglia).


If money is no object, it may be possible to build some sort of PHEV around the vehicle, so that your locomotive hp is not limited by the diesel.

 Would require a very large battery bank , guessing in the 10KWH +  range.  Suitably sized DC motors with mechanical HP equivalents in the 30-40hp range to provide locomotion. Your primary power would come from the the plug-in charged battery bank. The diesel gen would extend the range , but you would still be distance limited by the initial battery state of charge. (overall still very inefficient).

I don't know how much weight you could remove from the vehicle by dropping the existing engine and tranny vs the weight gain of everything that would need to be added

How big is this diesel gen, size and weight?

The reason I'm still thinking about this , is that I keep planning on building  a small diesel electric boat. Power from solar, battery bank store , a small diesel acting as aux power charge source, and an electric drive train.
Rover
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Bruce S

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Re: diesel hybrid
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2010, 10:57:03 AM »
I am thinking about transportation I have a 1958 Anglia car with a bad motor. I'm not sure  what size the diesel is it says  Tokya Roki on some of the filters and Toyo on the radiator and Phillips Diesel 18 HP  10kw Los Lunas  New Mexico on the generator. It is probably 18 HP. 

As you probably see from others posting, this though possible is not the best idea. The motor you have in the 1958'r is probably a 1200cc 4-cyl gas engine.
Not sure if you have a manual transmission or a very early automatic.
Changing from a gas powered unit to diesel means tons of other little things that will need to be addressed (ie, glo-plug wiring, extra cooling)
What happens to be wrong with current engine? blown fur-sure :P or other things. While this is not topical for this website; maybe we can point you in the right direction. Sure would hate to see a cute little car get torn up just trying to insert an engine already too little for safe motoring.

The gent set however is a great find!! Have you powered it up and tested it yet?

Bruce S

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WindriderNM

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Re: diesel hybrid
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2010, 02:56:54 PM »
I have abandoned the car idea. I hooked up a battery and it started right away.  I traded  the Anglia for a bunch of hot water panels. I will use the generator as it is for backup power and power big tools that my inverter can't handle.
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