Author Topic: Nickel-Iron battery backed off grid home in Chicago  (Read 4408 times)

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isoutar

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Nickel-Iron battery backed off grid home in Chicago
« on: September 15, 2010, 02:51:00 PM »
Here is a large downtown Chicago demonstration of nickel-iron batteries.   Batteries over 30 years old were used with great success.

http://microsec.net/Nickel-Iron-Solar-Chicago.pdf

This is an amazing installation and shows how to use antique historc (non lead acid) batteries in a modern home energy system.

Ian Soutar
« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 02:52:45 PM by isoutar »

Brandon

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Re: Nickel-Iron battery backed off grid home in Chicago
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2010, 12:10:45 AM »
Since you seem to know a lot about these batteries, maybe you could help me out with a technical question.  I'm trying to determine how many amp hours I can expect from a given surface area of nickel (and Iron for that matter) within a cell. I read somewhere in my research that Edison calculated that the electrons were only penetrating .05 inch of the nickel.  I'm interested to know, based on the surface area, how many amp hours I can expect. I realize metal purity will impact storage, but I just need a ballpark or rule of thumb to help me design my cell. What formula was Edison using? Would it be difficult to determine how much surface area is in one of your Chinese batteries that are 200 amp hour?

Any help is appreciated.

isoutar

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Re: Nickel-Iron battery backed off grid home in Chicago
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2010, 10:56:33 AM »
This is an interesting question and is somewhat more complex.   Edison started using metal nickel but ended up using nickel hydroxide contained in perforated stainless tubes.

So I cannot answer that since Edison by 1907 or so realized that much better performance was possible by using nickel compounds in porous tubes.   The penetration into nickel did not matter in the end.

I really do not know the answer.   There are some battery experts on the forum here who may know.

Ian

Brandon

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Re: Nickel-Iron battery backed off grid home in Chicago
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2010, 10:44:36 PM »
Well, the cell design I was going to use is based off the design of optima batteries. These batteries use  thin and flexible plates which are insulated from each other by a fiberglass cloth. The electrolyte can pass through the fiberglass but the two electrodes cannot touch, yet they remain very close together. 

There are a number of companies that make nickel "foil" with thicknesses ranging from as little as .001" to .1"
The plan was to wrap the nickel foil at a thickness of .009" between two layers of fiberglass and a layer of thin steel sheeting on top(hopefully also around .01" but at least as pliable). These layers will be rolled and leads attached to the beginning of one and the end of another.

At the proposed thickness, the nickel will be totally saturated by electrons on both sides of the foil, thereby resulting in the maximum possible energy density. The thinness of the fiberglass insulator should hopefully help maximize performance of the batteries since the electrons will have only a short distance to travel through the electrolyte.

I hope to build a prototype cell this winter. Since the foil is only sold in large quantities, I have to put the project on the backburner until it is more practical to spend the money on the components(according to my timeline of projects I have to complete for my off-grid cabin).   I hope to achieve 1kWh cells in a relatively small dimension. Failing that, my goal is to achieve at least a 1 KWh 12volt bank for less than $500 in materials. If it works out, I'll post a little article or maybe a youtube video on it so folks can build their own cells at home.

I chose NiFe batteries over lead acid batteries because I want and need batteries that are not damaged by being left uncharged for long periods of time. My cabin will be unattended for months at a time, and no charging of the batteries may occur. I also wanted a battery that only had to be purchased once in my lifetime. NiFe batteries, while lacking the performance of a lead acid battery, fits that bill. Its all about long term cost effectiveness and independance for me.

isoutar

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Re: Nickel-Iron battery backed off grid home in Chicago
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2010, 11:04:35 AM »
Your reason for selecting NiFe is typical.  If the battery has to last and last then there is only one choice in batteries.   Lead acid is a consumable item in a design.  NiFe is a lifetime solution.

Ian

WindriderNM

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Re: Nickel-Iron battery backed off grid home in Chicago
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2010, 04:22:36 PM »
Here is a supplier of metals in small quantities I have purchased copper from them a few years ago.

www.onlinemetals.com
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WindriderNM

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Re: Nickel-Iron battery backed off grid home in Chicago
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2010, 07:37:38 PM »
Here is a paper on electroplating nickel hydroxide for supercapacitors it or something like it may work for your project. I am also interested in making some batteries.

www.electrochemsci.org/papers/vol4/4081052.pdf
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