Author Topic: My 17' Turbine so far  (Read 45029 times)

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dlenox

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2011, 05:43:58 PM »
can you give us some information about the winch that you are using?

I know that you mentioned that it is a 10,000 lb truck winch.
I am assuming that it is 12v DC? if so then what are you using to power it?

thanks,
dan lenox
« Last Edit: June 12, 2011, 07:18:03 PM by dlenox »

nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2011, 09:39:48 PM »
can you give us some information about the winch that you are using?

I know that you mentioned that it is a 10,000 lb truck winch.
I am assuming that it is 12v DC? if so then what are you using to power it?

thanks,
dan lenox
I just pull my truck up behind the winch and the cables are long enough to be hooked up to the battery.  The battery has two sets of lugs, so I hook it to the extra set.

SparWeb

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2011, 01:48:49 PM »
Nice job!

Did you make the octagonal flanges yourself or did you find the pipe with them already?  (The reference to irrigation pipe would indicate you made it yourself).

Does it look rather stable as you raise it, or does it have the "wet spaghetti" look?  I'm guessing the former if it's 8" pipe.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

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nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2011, 07:20:04 PM »
Nice job!

Did you make the octagonal flanges yourself or did you find the pipe with them already?  (The reference to irrigation pipe would indicate you made it yourself).

Does it look rather stable as you raise it, or does it have the "wet spaghetti" look?  I'm guessing the former if it's 8" pipe.

The flanges were already on the pivot irrigator piping, although I did add the gussets that are welded to the flanges. 

The tower seems very solid so far, but I haven't raised it with the gen installed yet.

kitestrings

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2011, 11:14:27 AM »
nekit,

Some interesting ideas (adjustable tail angle, top mount slriprings, damper), and exceptional workmanship!

The rectifier looks small for a 17' turbine and doesn't apper to be heat-sunk, but I could be reading it wrong.

Please keep us poste don you progress.

kindly,  ~kitestrings

nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2011, 05:55:35 AM »
 Got the tail feathers done the other day.  It's fiberglass with foam core.  Pretty light and strong.  I think if I have to make another, I would just make it out of aluminium with some ribs bent in it like Bergey does.  It would be a lot less work.

nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2011, 09:01:36 PM »
Getting closer.  Just some wiring left.

SparWeb

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2011, 09:47:46 PM »
This is surely a sweet moment.  Thanks for letting us share it with you!
Thinking positive thoughts "up, up, up" on your behalf   :D
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, regulated by Xantrex C40, DIY 8ft diameter wind turbine, regulated by Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024

nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2011, 08:25:19 PM »
It's up.  I live near a wind farm, so I get good wind.  Tonight since the mill is up, 0 no wind.  Oh well.  Waiting on wind

vawtwindy

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2011, 10:20:33 PM »
marvellous nekit.

endless hurdles.

jarrod9155

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2011, 05:20:25 AM »
What does your mppt table look like for the aurora ? I would love to compare

birdhouse

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2011, 12:20:30 PM »
nekit-
i just put up my first mill, and am pretty stoked!  but holy lordy, you went the full nine yards!

so, id like to say congrats!  that's a beautifully designed well thought out out machine with a ton of attention to detail!!!  your tower looks fabulous as well!  keep up the good work! 

oh, and i love the adjustable furling angle hinge holes!  brilliant!

adam

nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2011, 03:36:34 PM »
Here's a video of it running.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWc0X5YSNnU

I'm still playing with the MPPT table.  I have an initial one, but I think it will take lots of tweaking to get it right.  I'll post it when I feel it's working well.

I have it set to furl pretty early.  Had some winds today and it was furling at about 20mph.  I can change the tail angle or add lead shot to the ends of the tail.  The last 12" of both of the tail tubes are removable and have screw in caps to add lead shot.  I think I'm going to try the lead first.

I still have to finish up the dump load cells, so I've been shutting it down if it gets too windy.

Thanks for all the compliments.

Boss

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #40 on: July 01, 2011, 06:28:00 PM »
Howdy and great looking rig
What kind of output are you seeing in those winds?
Brian Rodgers
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nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #41 on: July 02, 2011, 07:43:46 AM »
Here's some better boring video of my turbine spinning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i6kCV6L73w

So far in probably 4 mph winds I'm seeing 150-200W output.  It did get up to about 2000W in roughly 18mph winds yesterday.  Lots of tuning still to do.

nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #42 on: July 02, 2011, 08:01:32 AM »
On another note.  The building inspector for the county came out and did the final inspection yesterday.  This is the first turbine in the county and they just enacted the regulations on them last year.  They were pretty clueless on what to look for.  The first inspection consisted of looking at the hole for the foundations and the the final inspection they just came out and looked at it.  The inspector said "My boss said go out and make sure it is bolted down good", didn't look at any of the electrical or ask any questions.

I think one of the main purpose of the proccess is to give the neighbors a chance to be heard if they object, during a variance hearing.

Anyway I thought some of you might enjoy my inspection process.

bj

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2011, 06:03:23 AM »
   Nekit--glad the inspection was painless.   Watching a new turbine is so boring I did it about ten times.
Good luck with the tweaking'
"Even a blind squirrel will find an acorn once in a while"
bj
Lamont AB Can.

Boss

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2011, 06:35:40 AM »
Let's hope all small homemade wind turbines integrate with such ease, congrats
Brian Rodgers
My sustainable lifestyle site http://outfitnm.com no ads, not selling anything either

Boss

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #45 on: July 03, 2011, 06:36:30 AM »
Oh BTW where are you located, generally
Brian Rodgers
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SparWeb

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #46 on: July 03, 2011, 03:48:40 PM »
Hi Nekit.  Isn't it great to see it come alive!

Your 2nd video catches some funny noises and I bet you're curious about that.
Two things:  Is there any play in the yaw mount / can rock it slightly on the tower stub?  If so then vibrations from various sources can resonate with this freedom of motion.  It's not fatal and not even likely to be a problem, but you may see some wear on parts after a few years.  Since you have a rather complex mounting system, I would be concerned about other parts being loose (tail hinge).  It looks like your tower is a jiffy to lower so this might be easy to inspect.  Considering how thoroughly everything's been done on your system, I rather doubt anything was missed.

The other thing is the electrical start-up conditions in the electrical system.  Since you've got an Aurora I don't know if this is 100% applicable.  Mine makes the same noise at cut-in speed and it seems to be caused by rapidly opening and closing the rectifiers.  Let me tell you about why (I believe) it makes noise on my system, and you tell me if that is relevant on an Aurora grid-tie.  The AC voltage increases with speed, and at cut-in, only the peaks are high enough to open the diodes.  So you get very short "ON" periods where the diodes let current flow on any given phase briefly.  The momentary ON is a higher load (torque) than the intervening times before the next phase voltage rises enough to switch ON.  These torque pulses cause a similar growling noise.  On mine, I find it is louder in Star than when phases are individually rectified, but the noise is there just the same.  Only at cut-in. 

Hope that helps!

No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, regulated by Xantrex C40, DIY 8ft diameter wind turbine, regulated by Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024

nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #47 on: July 04, 2011, 06:58:49 AM »
Hi Nekit.  Isn't it great to see it come alive!

Your 2nd video catches some funny noises and I bet you're curious about that.
Two things:  Is there any play in the yaw mount / can rock it slightly on the tower stub?  If so then vibrations from various sources can resonate with this freedom of motion.  It's not fatal and not even likely to be a problem, but you may see some wear on parts after a few years.  Since you have a rather complex mounting system, I would be concerned about other parts being loose (tail hinge).  It looks like your tower is a jiffy to lower so this might be easy to inspect.  Considering how thoroughly everything's been done on your system, I rather doubt anything was missed.

The other thing is the electrical start-up conditions in the electrical system.  Since you've got an Aurora I don't know if this is 100% applicable.  Mine makes the same noise at cut-in speed and it seems to be caused by rapidly opening and closing the rectifiers.  Let me tell you about why (I believe) it makes noise on my system, and you tell me if that is relevant on an Aurora grid-tie.  The AC voltage increases with speed, and at cut-in, only the peaks are high enough to open the diodes.  So you get very short "ON" periods where the diodes let current flow on any given phase briefly.  The momentary ON is a higher load (torque) than the intervening times before the next phase voltage rises enough to switch ON.  These torque pulses cause a similar growling noise.  On mine, I find it is louder in Star than when phases are individually rectified, but the noise is there just the same.  Only at cut-in. 

Hope that helps!



Thanks for the info.  I think your on track with the noise issue, but I think it's the aluminium cover that I made that goes over the slip rings.  I'm going to bring it down and add some rubber and some other tweaks.

As for the startup, that makes sense.  I'll have to watch it and see if that's the case over time.

Thanks

halfcrazy

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #48 on: July 07, 2011, 04:13:37 AM »
My neighbors 17 ft machine was doing the same growling noise at cut in on the Classic. We bumped the first two steps of the power curve up a few volts and that made it cut in a little later maybe 1mph? This basically eliminated the growl. We where originally trying to cut in around 4-4.5 mph I think that may just be to low now it is closer to 6 mph.  I have talked to people that have had issues with towers resonating at a certain power output say 1000 watts and they did the same thing with the Aurora inverter they tuned around that spot by making one step a little high and letting the turbine free up a bit there.

nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #49 on: July 07, 2011, 08:17:35 PM »
Here's the power curve I am currently using.  This was compiled with the help of Rob Becker's info and some math crunching on my own.  Seems to be working ok so far, but winds have been pretty low since my turbine went up.  Time will tell.
Wind mph   Wind (m/s)   Watts Rotor   RPM   Hz      Unloaded AC   I Phase   Loaded AC   P Loss   P Out   Eff     DC Volts MPPT   Watts Out MPPT

4.48   2.0   30   44   5.9   58   0.3   57   0   30   99%   75    0
5.6   2.5   59   55   7.4   72   0.5   71   1   58   99%   93   30
6.72   3.0   102   66   8.9   86   0.7   85   2   101   98%   111   81
7.84   3.5   163   77   10.3   101   0.9   99   3   159   98%   129   151
8.96   4.0   243   89   11.8   115   1.2   113   5   237   98%   147   245
10.08   4.5   346   100   13.3   129   1.5   126   9   337   98%   165   365
11.2   5.0   474   111   14.8   144   1.9   140   13   461   97%   183   513
13.44   6.0   819   133   17.7   173   2.7   167   27   792   97%   219   911
15.68   7.0   1301   155   20.7   201   3.7   194   50   1251   96%   254   1461
17.92   8.0   1942   177   23.6   230   4.9   220   86   1856   96%   288   2188
20.16   9.0   2765   199   26.6   259   6.2   246   137   2628   95%   322   3114
22.4   10.0   3793   221   29.5   288   7.6   272   209   3584   94%   356   4261
24.64   11.0   5049   243   32.5   316   9.2   297   306   4743   94%   389   5651
25.536   11.4   5620   252   33.6   328   9.9   307   353   5267   94%   403   6280

Sorry Chart gets a little messed up when posted.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 08:20:08 PM by nekit »

nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2011, 04:40:58 AM »
Built a dump load for the turbine.  It's 8000W and currently configured 34ohm discharging the 3 phase AC.
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kitestrings

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2011, 08:18:50 AM »
nekit,

Congrat's on the progress to date.

Tell us more about the dump load.  Is it single stage?  All -or nothing, or PWM?  Just curious how it is wired, configured and controlled.  Also the effect on the turbine when it is fully loaded.  I generally like the idea of the dump load being external as you've done here (as apposed to shorting the windings), but tht'a just my bias.

Best of luck and keep posting your experiences with it.  Looks great.

~kitestrings

nekit

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2011, 09:28:12 AM »
nekit,

Congrat's on the progress to date.

Tell us more about the dump load.  Is it single stage?  All -or nothing, or PWM?  Just curious how it is wired, configured and controlled.  Also the effect on the turbine when it is fully loaded.  I generally like the idea of the dump load being external as you've done here (as apposed to shorting the windings), but tht'a just my bias.

Best of luck and keep posting your experiences with it.  Looks great.

~kitestrings
The dumpload is controlled by the Omron voltage sensing relay and a NC relay.  I think I have the spec earlier in this thread.  With this setup I can have the dumpload come on at a preset voltage level any where from 100-600V.  I currently have it set to dump a 410 V AC, which should limit the DC to less than 550 VDC.  With the NC relay that the Omron voltage sensing relay controls, the dumpload also comes on if the grid fails and the inverter shuts down.

I currently have it setup to disconnect the inverter when the dumpload comes on.  The advantage of this is that it keeps the inverter safe from over voltage.  The disadvantage is you aren't keeping the inverter making power during the high voltage events and when the inverter comes back online it takes a few seconds for the inverter to connect to the turbine.  I think I would rather be safe and disconnect the inverter.

The dumpload is a work in progress. The resistors are 8 resistors that I was able to pickup on ebay.  They are each Ohmite 1000W 6.8ohm Power-rib edge wound resistors.  I originally had it wired with a bridge rectifier in the dumload circuit, so the resistors were wire in one large loop.  They were wired in series between the - and + of the bridge rectifier for a total resistance of 54.4ohms and 8000W capacity.  I then changed my mind and eliminated the bridge rectiifier and had the 3 phase AC going to the resistors.  With this setup I have one less part to break and the resistor are wired closer to what I think seems to control the turbine better at 34ohms.

   <Res> -T-  <Res>
^           ^             ^
R           R             R
e           e             e
s           s              s
                     

I           I              I

^          ^            ^
R           R            R
e           e             e
s           s             s

I           I             I

If I'm thinking correctly each leg should take the path of least resistance and go through 5 resistor for a total of 34 ohms each.

This is totally new stuff and will probably be modified.  I've only had winds to get the gen up to 250V and when I've turned on the dumpload it seems to control the turbine nicely.  It doesn't grind it to a hault, but slows it nicely.  We'll see what it does at higher volts.

SparWeb

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Re: My 17' Turbine so far
« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2011, 11:23:44 PM »
Eight resistors, on an AC 3-phase configuration...  Are the phases of the dump load balanced equally?

Oh maybe it doesn't matter at all.  One phase will have a bit more current than the others...  by 50% maybe?  Have you measured the current in the dump load phases?

Yeah when buying from e-bay it's hard to find the right quantity of things - some times too many sometimes not enough.

No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, regulated by Xantrex C40, DIY 8ft diameter wind turbine, regulated by Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024