Author Topic: Insulating shipping container house with sips  (Read 18075 times)

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Albert

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Insulating shipping container house with sips
« on: February 01, 2011, 05:18:13 AM »
Searched till my wits end and haven't heard of or seen it done before so the ? OK to the project at hand.Three conex 40 footers set on pier foundation Will stick frame outside of with 2x6's and 8's with sips. These aren't full sheets just some end pieces most are 24''x48'' sheeted on both sides with osb,5'' styro center. Why? Got them cheap from someone that bought for shed proj. and ran into $ prob. After outside walls done then roof over on 4-12 pitch with stick frame and sheeted with osb then 30# felt and metal roof. At ground level will skirt with block after insulating floor with bat insul and sheeting. The problem I am hoping I don't have is condensation, that is the biggest concern. Any suggestions or comments ? Guess location might help, in  west central ar-kansas .
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 05:22:07 AM by Albert »

thirteen

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Re: Insulating shipping container house with sips
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2011, 06:55:48 AM »
I would check for rust spots and correct them before covering them. Once there they do not just go away. You might put this together and it might not meet building codes in your area. As a suggestion you might look into putting two contaniners down and leaving a space between them and then set the other container ontop of the other two spaning the open space thus giving you one more room and a second floor. Just an idea to play with. 
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bob g

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Re: Insulating shipping container house with sips
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2011, 07:34:44 AM »
if the containers are steel they are likely "corten" which is an alloy designed to oxidize/rust a protective layer and pretty much last forever after that.

not sure i would be concerned about surface rust

if the boxes are insulated there shouldn't be a lot of condensation, however it is a good idea to have some means of positive air exchange not only for health concerns but to keep the interior humidity in check.

but then again arkansas can be quite humid! so an air conditioner or dehumdifier is probably going to be useful in keeping the interior dry.

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Albert

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Re: Insulating shipping container house with sips
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2011, 09:01:27 AM »
Right will be using window unit air-c for cooling and ng heater for heat. Prolly would'nt be bad idea for couple vents in ceiling going into attic. Will be framed out inside like regular stick house, Firing strip and gyp rock. Might just wait on doing the inside till i get it all done on the outside. I have done quite a bit of construction work. I was a tile setter in florida for 14 years, well can't be no worse than the submarine with screen doors i live in now. Got 1 of them handy man specials rent to own. Reminds self future reference not to do that again. But when i get it paid for i will have a good bit of heart pine for which ever.

zap

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Re: Insulating shipping container house with sips
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2011, 09:33:38 AM »
I guess I'm not quite following what you're trying to do.

If you're already framing the outside up in 2x6 and 2x8 and using the sip panels as a skin then sticking the containers inside would seem to me to be redundant and a waste of money.

Interior partitioning is cheap.  Use the containers as out-buildings or dig a hole for them and use them as your basement.

Albert

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Re: Insulating shipping container house with sips
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2011, 09:56:06 AM »
The containers are going to be 2000 each delivered, which I want for the structural integrity. The sips I am getting for the four tires I got in the back yard taking up space,and the lumber is from a barn I tore out for a farmer for the lumber. so  i am guesstimating i can bring a 900 sq ft in at 15$ a sq ft give or take a few dollars here or there. Stick framing with floor and sub floor and walls guesstimate 25$++  And containers get all there strength from the 8 inch steel tubing in the frame , not there walls, never should be buried except for coffin for elephants or such.

zap

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Re: Insulating shipping container house with sips
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2011, 10:20:12 AM »
Borrowing from a regular contributor to this site...

Now it's "clear as mud" to me.

Bruce S

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Re: Insulating shipping container house with sips
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2011, 02:21:05 PM »
Borrowing from a regular contributor to this site...

Now it's "clear as mud" to me.

ZAP
Let me see if I can help a little, while I wait for the ice to STOP and get on with the snowing part. ICE sucks for making snowballs >:(
I Arkansas the ground isn't very good for having metal down in it due to possible high water content, unlike most of Missouri which is clay  :-\
He's, and clear this up if going the wrong route, going to be using the container as the inside and using the sips to cover it and make nice like. Similar to a mobile home but 1000x safer. Since the sides are so thick and strong, he can sapn the entire side to side for an open roof style, plus when he closes everything up, it is a very nice tight unit.

These are usually rated for ocean going and has this metal oxide that will hinder rusting, not stop , but slow it down for years.
Covered with roof, sides and all it'll last 10x longer.
For sure by covering the top with a roofing it won't become a stand alone family sized dry sona.
Not sure where in Arkansas he's located but summer around the boot heel can get a might  :P HUMID  :P.
Basically building with what he got to trade for except for cost of container. AC will be needed, swamp cooler will NOT work.

Clear as the Mighty Mississippi now?
Cheers;
Bruce S

 
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zap

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Re: Insulating shipping container house with sips
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2011, 02:37:36 PM »
Clear as the Mighty Mississippi now?
Cheers;
Bruce S


Heh... maybe.

What you described is mostly what I figured he meant.

If that's the case... I still think it's a waste of lumber.
Use the container's sides to hang the sip on the outside and forget about framing outside walls.

The big problem will be the reinforcing that will need to be added if and/or where the container's walls are cut for windows etc.


We got almost nil as far as ice and little snow... and I did see it at 0.2F a little after noon today!!!
Enjoy it while you can... I'm sure we'll be sending more good things your way soon ;)

Bruce S

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Re: Insulating shipping container house with sips
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2011, 03:22:51 PM »
Clear as the Mighty Mississippi now?
Cheers;
Bruce S


Heh... maybe.

We got almost nil as far as ice and little snow... and I did see it at 0.2F a little after noon today!!!
Enjoy it while you can... I'm sure we'll be sending more good things your way soon ;)
Okay you can send it to the mountains now, this 1" of sleet/ice is pretty BUT... the 12" of snow coming makes for calling in for pizza a long wait.
27mph winds and NO mill  :(
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shiedines

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Re: Insulating shipping container house with sips
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2011, 06:36:32 AM »
Yes you just need to consider a positive air exchange. This could help you get rig on some humidity. You might need an air conditioner for keeping the surface dry and the walls and to prevent humidity.
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Albert

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Re: Insulating shipping container house with sips
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2011, 03:11:17 PM »
Yes Bruce . That's pretty much what i had in mind. But on the framing of the out side, I am going to just do enough to get the sips secured, then all will be sheeted over with hardie panels. And the roof I am going to roof over the whole thing for insulation purposes. The walls I am going to cut out of the containers and bolt and weld all three together. Which I will reinforce the structure in three equally spaced places along the frame with some 6'' steel pipe and box frame them in 1''x6''. the attic I am going to insulate the heck out of. I hate the cold . I imagine with a few sofit vents down each side and a ridge vent, If I put in a vent going to attic from inside that I can open and close when needed should deter any condensation. Since later I am going to put in wood floors and alot of wood work . Most of this wood I am going to use for this will come out of the house I am living in now. Most of the frame is all rough sawn 2''x3'' pine.And outside walls are all 1''x8'' or 1''x12'' pine . Will try to get some pics up. Going to start on piers this spring after I get the garden in. As far as my location, I am south of Fortsmith about a hour. In just a little town, no permits or inspections needed just build it. i am kinda amazed at how long bare plywood will survive,when used for siding.

Bruce S

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Re: Insulating shipping container house with sips
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2011, 08:17:29 AM »
Albert;
If you're 1 hour due south then you're pretty close to Texarkana :-) got parent's life long family that migrated (retired) down there to get away from cold here.
I'm sure we'll see it in the details, but something down to keep the ants and other critters off the Pine is a sure bet. Darned ants down there bite on purpose!!
Mold is gonna be another issue, but easy enough for you to fix with circulating fans.
Bring on the pics and don't forget to paint the welds. Rust is not IF but when, but there you know that already!!
Best of luck
Bruce S

PS? Off topic but only a little  ;D hows the Havolina problem around there? nasty buggers but pretty good eaten once downed. Got treed once while hunting with Uncle, THAT was fun! took all day for them females to leave once we downed him, WOW the tusks !! you could skin leather with it.


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birdhouse

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Re: Insulating shipping container house with sips
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2011, 07:51:38 PM »
albert-
i've thought some of building with shipping containers.  if done correctly, it could be really rad. 

as far as the attic ventilation...  1 sq inch of peak vent and 1/2 sq inch of vent per eave (gable framed) PER 100 sq foot of attic is a general rule of thumb.  for a warm climate like you've got slightly more would be better.   basically you want a heavy blanket of insulation directly above your containers, with air inlets at the eaves, and exhaust at the peak.  this allows good air flow ABOVE your insulation.  it would also be good to have a very minimal amount of airflow between your containers and your SIP's that lead to the attic.  if you're worried about mold, exterior primer is your friend for bare materials. 

as far as plywood as exterior...  first lets talk of the ply.  OSB doesn't fair well, and i would stay away from it for "siding".  if it is actual plywood, your speaking of, make sure it is CDX, or ACX or T1-11.  these all use exterior type glues between the plys.  honestly, i think ACX would outlast grooved T1-11 because the ACX doesn't have grooves cutting into various layers of the ply.  all of the above ply's should be (exterior) primed on five sides, then coated with quality exterior paint.  i'll bet primed/painted/correctly z-flashed/maintained ACX would last 20-30 years in your climate. 

lastly, keep moisture down indoors as much as possible.  this is a common cause of exterior paint failures.  i know painters that give a 10 year warranty on exterior paint jobs IF, and only IF the stove has a vent hood, and all bath's have a properly sized exhaust fan. 

sounds like a fun project, and i'd love to see some pics! 

adam

armadillo

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Re: Insulating shipping container house with sips
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2012, 07:08:07 PM »
I have built a couple barns using shipping containers. I don't consider them very suitable for living space, but at 2K apiece it might be worth a try.
In building barns, the advantage of using the cans is that no foundation is needed.
In Alsaka I have heard people take 3 40-footers and weld them together and set them on the permafrost, thus avoiding all the frost upheaval issues they have. Of course they have to re-level them sometimes.

Shipping containers are very hot in the summer and very cold in the winter. At 8'wide, they are little more than long hallways, thus floorplans are difficult.

If you send me an email addy I can send pics of the barns I built.

theshadownose

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Re: Insulating shipping container house with sips
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2012, 11:37:09 AM »
Armidillo,

An different insulation idea would be a closed system-  With closed foam insulation sprayed in,  you could have attic deck and attic ceiling insulated, and not vented at all

Plus side   no heat leaking in, no heat leaking out.
plus side- no moisture movement at all

minus side- unless you can do it yourself,  or get a discount,  it is $$...

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Frank S

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Re: Insulating shipping container house with sips
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2012, 06:44:38 PM »
Container homes can be a great alternative to stick built and they will last virtually forever .
 IF there is any rust on the boxes you buy  even Core ten can eventually rust out especially if certain chemicals have been hauled and the packaging ruptured. Treat those areas with POR 15 good by rust.
 Also one other thing just as a tid-bit of advice;  MY company also has an XPS /EPS (Styrofoam) factory our steam mold makes 1 x1.2 x8 meter Hardy blocks these are then either sliced to thinner shorter panel sizes or shapes or sliced and used in our  sandwich  panel mold  Plus we have 5 Injection mold machines for foam expansion of shapes.
 These SIPs are then used for whatever but on request we add Silicic acid & neozapon powder to serve as a flame retardant. None of that has any relevant here 
 The only reason I mention this is to advise about the possibility of fire many foam filled panels if exposed to flame will give off Formaldehydes  others can produce a myriad of other toxic gases. Because I have been designing a home to be made out of high cube 45s and will be cutting 1 side out of them to make the rooms wider  then steel stud the interior walls and layer on 2 thicknesses of 5/8 gypsum board and insulate VIA  the Glass craft MHII that I am fortunate to have. I am thinking of using PIR



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Frank S

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Re: Insulating shipping container house with sips
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2012, 06:46:03 PM »
I hope those photos are not too large they are 68 kb
I live so far outside of the box, when I die they will stretch my carcass over the coffin