Author Topic: Making decent solar panels part 3  (Read 100654 times)

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2011solarking

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Re: Making decent solar panels part 3
« Reply #231 on: January 31, 2012, 08:22:42 PM »
Hi, Oz
I want to know something: why do you solder the complete tab, all along the cell?. The cells work ok if you only solder two or three centimeters in the extreme of the white line.
Do you know what is the reason?

Regards

ibdilbert

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Re: Making decent solar panels part 3
« Reply #232 on: February 06, 2012, 03:20:08 PM »
SolarKing,

Its a good idea to run the tabbing wire across most of the cell.  One of the main reasons is for insurance, meaning if the cell were to brake in half perpendicular to the tabbing wire, it could brake the circuit and cause the whole panel to not work at all.   Whereas had the tabbing wire ran its full length, the cell can crack in this way and it really is no big deal.

NoSmoke

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Re: Making decent solar panels part 3
« Reply #233 on: March 09, 2012, 11:05:53 PM »
It seems to me Fred480v has the best deals for easy cells.

http://shop.ebay.com.au/fred480v/m.html?_trksid=p4340.l2562

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1KW-3x6-tabbed-short-tabbed-mix-solar-cells-/270753099458?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0a246ec2


Hey Oz, I went to Fred's ebay site and he quotes shipping of $200 via USPS Express Mail to Canada (and it appears to all countries) yet the USPS web site quotes $60 for Canada (for a 20 lb box).

Have you seen this kind of disparity when ordering from him?

This is for item:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000w-of-solar-cells-DIY-panel-kit-6x6-cells-w-wire-/280841258793?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4163718729#ht_1817wt_1185

oztules

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Re: Making decent solar panels part 3
« Reply #234 on: March 10, 2012, 02:11:03 AM »
Its not as evil as it appears.
They come in 4 boxes (large), your buying some cells and 3 tons of cardboard. Every cell is separated from every other by a 7x7 piece of cardboard... so about 250 pieces of cardboard as well.... hence the cost...... however, he sells against himself (I think) as look at this item.... same thing but cheaper shipping, I have bought from both, and they are the same goods and the same packaging etc.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1000w-DIY-solar-cells-panel-kit-6x6-cells-wire-kit-/170797333359?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c4507b6f

As an aside, the power bill came the other day for the previous 4 months....... NOTHING TO PAY....... I like it :D

Those cells are by far the easiest to make a panel with.... by a country mile.

The last 200 I did I bought some from China... (Fred had none) no tabbing,but  beautiful cells.......and all sorted... wonderful, but  it takes about 5 times as long as the short tabbed ones.

If you have LOTS of time and oodles of patience the China ones are great..... but it is sole destroying tabbing 6" cells..... 4 runs per cell.... thats 2 feet of soldering on each one..... it gets a bit tiresome.

With the price of panels in USA, I'm surprised your giving it a go. Over here it is still well worth it.


..............oztules
Flinders Island Australia

NoSmoke

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Re: Making decent solar panels part 3
« Reply #235 on: March 10, 2012, 07:24:02 PM »
Thanks Oz - I hadn't realized the packaging was that voluminous.  I have looked at two other ebay sites however who ship the same m/l for about $100 less although fred does include ribbon, bus wire and diodes so maybe the total costs justifies it.  The others are:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1KW-WHOLE-Solar-Cell-Full-Loose-Tab-DIY-Solar-Panel-/170684947827#ht_1930wt_1185

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1KW-3x6-Short-Tabbed-Solar-Cells-DIY-Solar-Panel-Mixed-Grades-Free-Shipping-/120851176749?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c234a9d2d#ht_8137wt_954

I'm still not clear what tabbing actually refers to.  Is it the ribbon conductor(s) running on the surface of the cells themselves or the pig-tails sticking out (or both). And, some tabs are apparently "short" or "full" or "full loose"(??).

I hear you regards building panels vs buying - I may go with panels but part of the fun is in the construction.

oztules

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Re: Making decent solar panels part 3
« Reply #236 on: March 11, 2012, 07:00:53 PM »
I have bought a 1000 cells from mlsolar, and he's a good seller.
I personally like the 6x6 and have gotten 11 amps into the mttp grid tie from a string of these types when the sun is clouded a bit. Seem to pull 8A whenever good sun is about.

3x6 don't seem to have the same grunt, even though they are about the same area.

For sheer ease, I like the fred ones short tabbed.

I use 66  cells per panel. For short tabbed front and back, you just add about 1 inch of tabbing to the front, and your done.
For the 3x6 loose tabs, you need to retab each cell... bad....... but the fly leads are there already..... good but you do need to do twice as many cells for the same sort of power (I used 138 of 6x3) so you do easily twice as much work, for probably no more power.

Choice is yours.

Tabbing... this is code for slow laborious brainless work. It is the string of tinned copper on the front bus bars of the cell. It is not quick, unless you have a BIG iron that can hold the heat in the tip for a bit. A little iron is next to useless. You need to RUN the solder to avoid peaks and crests in the solder face, or they will crack the cell when the pressure comes on from the plastic via vacuum.... ie they stick up, and the cell does not bend.... on u tube videos on this, they don't mention this, as they were not going to vacuum press them.... just silicon them to a surface, so it was of no interest how flat they were.

Thats a good reason to have the factory tabbed ones done properly. Ive tabbed 1200 cells completely, and am still not great at it, as my iron was only a 60 watt pencil iron. If I had a rough and ready plumbers 60 watt iron, I think it would be a breeze comparatively, as the temp would hold better during the 6 inch runs...... the silicon saps it up very fast ( the heat).

So, by the time you buy buss wires, flux pens and solder and extra tabbing if required, probably a better faster result will be with  these
: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1000w-DIY-solar-cells-panel-kit-6x6-cells-wire-kit-/170797333359?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c4507b6f

They supply all the stuff, and you can do 500 watts plus a day easy..... little cells are a pain if you doing lots of power.



............oztules

Edit... there is always a down side.... big cells are much more likely to break if your not very careful. If they break top to bottom, just use cellotape to stick them together to look nice. The power will not drop, same with cross wise.... diagonal can cause some losses if there is no white silver paint joining up the broken piece. 3x6 are a bit sturdier to use. So that may come into your calculations as well. I find if you use the cardboard to move, flip, shift the cells and never actually handle them with your fingers, this seems to stop the breakage. Once your fingers grab them, chances are a breakage will occur, as we are not aware of the air pressure against them as we move them about. Move a 6x6 quickly only holding the corner between your fingers, and it will break. Use the cardboard like a spatula, and you will probably never break one.... maybe because it is awkward enough to keep you thinking.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 07:09:47 PM by oztules »
Flinders Island Australia

djcurran

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Re: Making decent solar panels part 3
« Reply #237 on: April 25, 2012, 03:30:36 PM »
Hey oztules,

I work with a plastic fabrication company and after coming across your thread I decided I wanted to give this a go...but using a polycarbonate as my front rather than glass.  after pulling the piece out of the oven I am extremely excited with what i see, but I have a few issues that I hope you or somebody else on this thread might know an easy fix for that. 
Here is a picture of it:


I had pretty good results following the basic guidelines (I admit I probably did not hold the temp of 60 for 15 minutes and I only brought it up to 100 for 30 minutes) but I have a bubble at my interconnect...based on some of the thread I am guessing that might be from not holding low temp long enough. Its hard to see here but here is a picture:
5461-1

Also, as you can see from the last picture as well, I have an outbreak of very tiny bubbles that you can only really see when you hold it at a certain angle...but that seems to be the only angle I look at it. here is a picture of that:

5462-2
I have had a few come out that look just like this.  They are still giving me good power...just looking at how good some of the other panels on here look, I want to make a perfect one.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

oztules

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Re: Making decent solar panels part 3
« Reply #238 on: April 25, 2012, 06:01:54 PM »
Wow..... nice panels if you can get the bubbles out of them.

Firstly, you will know and I don't... but how it the poly with UV long term?

The bubbles are amazing....What sort of vacuum are you pulling, at what temp do you pull it on.

It looks for all the world like my first test runs in the oven without vacuum. There are some significant bubbles as well as the fine ones.... thats what makes me think you have either lost it, or the wicking material is not working.

So what are you using for the wicking material?

The only other thing I can thnk of is if there is any adhesive material on the plastic after you pull the protective sheet off the poly. Maybe try to wash the poly with methylated spirits before you place the EVA.... just in case there is some kind of residual that is causing the effervescence.

Hopefully you can sort this out so that others may get decent results with poly.

..........oztules
Flinders Island Australia

DanG

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Re: Making decent solar panels part 3
« Reply #239 on: April 25, 2012, 06:50:59 PM »
Very tiny bubbles - could be outgassing of the polycarbonate panels themselves; maybe a pre-treat heating cycle of 60°C for 15 minutes & 100°C for 30 minutes then allow to cool on the polycarbonate will drive off the surplus acetone and phenols or other precursor compounds remaining in the plastic feedstock.

Looking at MSDS's for plexiglass there is Methyl Methacrylate & Ethyl Acrylate in <1% concentrations and have a boiling point at 99°C & 101°C so that really may be the culprit. Ethyl Acrylate is also very foul smelling, like begin smelling it 7000 times below the safe exposure limit - a small test sample piece cut to expose the bubbles may confirm you need to upgrade the brand of polycarbonate if the heat pre-soak does not seriously reduce the bubbling...

djcurran

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Re: Making decent solar panels part 3
« Reply #240 on: April 26, 2012, 10:46:00 AM »
Thanks for the pointers.

The polycarbonate that I am using is sign grade material so it is warrantied by manufacture for not an optical yellow for 20 years, so that is good.  I will definitely try it again with a pre-dry.

I tried another time with no vacuum, just using a metal plate that I brought to temperature and was able to avoid the tiny bubbles...but had some cracks since my eva was not yet melting when I put the plate down.  that leads me to believe that you are probably right about the vacuum.  I am using breather fabric from a fiberglass laminating system, so that should work...maybe my coverage isn't consistent...time to do some playing around. I am going to my best job of showing real patience...doing a preheat and holding it, and then holding it at high temp for long enough...stay tuned for pictures

Bluevitz-RS

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Using Aluminum Foil Backing
« Reply #241 on: July 17, 2012, 01:05:23 PM »
Hi Newbie here :)

I've previously made myself a few panels, but didn't use any EVA.  Used good old wood as the backing.  No problems with moisture as they're sealed and it's been several years outside on the roof.

Anyway, this time around I'm going to use EVA but was wondering if anyone has ever tried using heavy duty aluminum foil as a backing instead of the white stuff. (TPE I think)  It would be much cheaper and the foils weatherproof.  Now obviously you wouldn't be able to cover the connection points but would a small cutout really let moisture propegate through?

Jamie.

jzemljic

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Re: Making decent solar panels part 3 - single sheet of EVA
« Reply #242 on: July 30, 2012, 07:15:20 AM »
Hi.

I was thinking of using single sheet of EVA, glass-cells-eva-tyvek, to reduce the cost. Do you think that would work?

Best regards,
Jure.

Larsmartinxt

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Re: Making decent solar panels part 3
« Reply #243 on: July 30, 2012, 07:53:01 AM »
Hi.

I was thinking of using single sheet of EVA, glass-cells-eva-tyvek, to reduce the cost. Do you think that would work?

Best regards,
Jure.

I don't think that's an good idea as it won't encapsulate the cells completely.

Wilco

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Re: Making decent solar panels part 3
« Reply #244 on: June 17, 2019, 07:06:38 PM »
Wow! Firstly, my hat off to you Oztuls - firstly for taking the plunge and homebrewing what would normally be considered a full-on manufacturing process and secondly, for sharing your results on this forum. Very VERY much appreciated. ;D And a big thanks of course to everyone else who has contributed to this thread - I've certainly learnt a hell of a lot.

What actually bought me to this thread was an age ol' problem of water ingress in my existing panels. They're actually commercially made panels (about 4 years old) and mounted on my campervan. They're supposedly warrantied for 10 years but the supplier is unfortunately not coming to the party as far as replacing them is concerned, stating that campervans are a lot harder on them (constant movement, occasional tree branch etc) than when they're sitting on a house roof.

Anyway, with the possibility of getting warranty replacement panels looking slimmer by the day, I'm considering what I can do with my existing panels. I've currently thought of two options:

1. Cut several holes in the backing sheet and bottom layer of EVA (obviously in the "cell-free diamond" areas - i.e. not under the actual PV cells), glue a small box around each of these holes and fill these boxes with a silica gel bag or other desiccant. For this to work, all the PV cells would obviously have to share the same air space and herein lies my question. After the EVA layers are cured, does each individual PV cell end up residing in it's own pocket of air (i.e. surrounded by EVA) or do the two EVA layers effectively become a big plastic bag, containing all the cells and allowing the air between the PV cells to move about?

2. If the above idea is a total dud, would it be worthwhile stripping down the panel completely and rebuilding it as per the Oztuls system or would it be pretty much impossible to break the EVA down and get the panel to pieces somehow without lots of breaking glass, PV cell shrapnel etc exploding around me in a fiery blaze of silicone doom (maybe a bit overdone but you get the idea...).

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read this and any comments, ideas etc on the above would be greatly appreciated!