Author Topic: Solar in Arizona  (Read 340 times)

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Yianie123.

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Solar in Arizona
« on: April 10, 2024, 10:29:52 AM »
Hello Everyone, I live in Surprise AZ (God's Waiting Room for Old People)  and am taking the plunge into solar.  I am doing it in stages, part by a contractor and the rest by me.  So, my question is that in the summer my AC bill is roughly $400 a month and it keeps getting higher here.  And the city water is near 80F in the summer, 70 in the winter time (I will tell you why later). In the winter, I have natural gas that feeds my Hot Water Heater, Furnace, and Dryer.  We have sun every day, so that is not a problem here.  In the winter months, my gas bill is beginning to hurt.  The space I have for the solar is 28ft wide x 11ft deep of flat overhang. And the electric utility company is just brutal with the documents that are required to interconnect, that's the reason for the Contractor to help me with this.  Here are what I see as my options, but your help will be greatly appreciated.  Options: 1. If I use every inch of over hang I can install 5.6KW of panels and try to get a minimal credit in the winter time for excess power feeding the grid, which I hate. 2. Install 4.8KW of solar and use 2 -400 panels to feed an heating element I can install in the drain port of the hot water heater. 3. Install the full 5.6KW solar panels and use a plug in heating element only in the winter time.  4. Remove 2 panels and install a pipe in solar water heater, but there is now piping, pump, controls, and digging into the ground to bury the piping which will be a real headack since the ground here is as hard a concrete and the overhang is at lease 30 ft away.  So, any ideas on what to do will be greatly appreciated.

joestue

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Re: Solar in Arizona
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2024, 11:35:58 AM »
What I would do, because cooling is the majority of your cost is run a 400-450 volt open circuit solar array, grounded in the middle of the array so you have plus and minus 200 volts..

Use an off the shelf 5 or 7.5hp VFD to drive your 4? ton HVAC compressor directly. good ones have pid control that can be wired to your thermostats.

The vfd will have a dump resistor that will be turned on at all times from a 400 volt array, the vfd will pwm that dump resistor.. (your 4500 watt hot water heater element will work) and drag the voltage down to somewhere around 400 volts.

a second 4500 watt element wired in series with the hot water heater, located to dump the heat outside, and a single SPDT relay, can be configured to short out either the outside resistor, or the inside hot water heater element, without open circuiting the dump load for more than 2 milliseconds.  The VFd brake resistor will never be open circuit, it will be two resistors in series. Wire that spdt to a thermostat on the hot water heater.

If the dump load fails, the 450 volt open circuit voltage is not high enough to destroy the vfd.


About the hvac compressor. i prefer dumb compressors over inverters. they just don't survive long enough to pay for themselves especially if you have to pay a contractor 20 grand for a 5 grand system, or have to pay someone a grand, to replace the inverter ECM fan motor.

A single phase 4 ton scroll compressor draws 16 to 25 amps on the run winding at 60hz and it pulls 4 or 5 amps through the run cap. get rid of the run cap, add a 240v to 120v transformer rated for 5 amps on the 120v winding, and you can drive most single phase compressors directly from a 3 phase vfd. 45hz minimum in my experience for scroll compressors. probably 75hz max unless its an inverter rated compressor designed for a wider ratio.
(the 240:120tx gets wired up as a modified scott t transformer to make 2 phase, and shift the third leg on the vfd to match the compressors interconnected L winding of which you can only access 3 wires, not 4. you may need a second, 240v to 24-48v to get more current through the "start" winding. but it only needs to pass 5 amps on the secondary, to add some volts to the start winding)

When your hot water heater fails, buy an inverter heat pump water heater if your hot water needs justify it. they still have 4500 watt elements you can wire up as previously described.

If you don't need that much hot water, add a desuperheater heat exchanger to the discharge line from the scroll compressor. 

in the winter, use the heat pump to heat your home, and it will also heat the hot water heater through the superheater. use gas for backup heat.

wiring diagram for the compressor and transformer arrangement from a vfd or from a 3 phase source such as a generator or utility
https://imgur.com/xuaTaEE
My wife says I'm not just a different colored rubik's cube, i am a rubik's knot in a cage.

OperaHouse

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Re: Solar in Arizona
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2024, 09:12:08 AM »
I wish I had your problem.  I have extreme shade at both my homes.  I have gas heat and thought about a mini split, but don't live there in summer.  My monthly service fees for gas are higher than the actual gas use.  There would be no savings unless I fully cut the pipe.  I do heat water with resistive PV because it is so cheap and I only use excess power.  Solar is a great playground if you know electronics.  I really can't help anyone because all my solutions are so unconventional that almost nobody can replicate them.