Author Topic: Active Pitchcontrol  (Read 192806 times)

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fabricator

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #54 on: October 29, 2011, 07:54:23 AM »
Wow!, did you have those gears custom cut?
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11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

midwoud1

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #55 on: October 29, 2011, 12:53:12 PM »
No ,  on the shelf . I was surprised myself . Module 2 - 3  on stock. Custom is possible but more expensive  f.i. hypoídal.
  Rgds . F.

fabricator

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #56 on: October 29, 2011, 01:34:15 PM »
Hmmmmm............What if you had one of these on the other side instead of the electronics? http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/WattSpeedGovernor/
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

methanolcat

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #57 on: October 29, 2011, 09:38:13 PM »
fabricator,

       Thats the exact idea I was going for on my big one I am working on, I think it would work great. With the combination of different springs and maybe adjustable weights I think it could be tuned in pretty good.

Matt

fabricator

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #58 on: October 30, 2011, 07:16:27 AM »
I'm sure it could be with a little tuning and experimenting.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

Janne

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #59 on: October 30, 2011, 09:01:49 AM »
Though I don't like the idea of electric pitch contro on a machine of this size, I have to say your design looks very nice. And it also seems to perform well for you. I have just seen too many DIY built machine with servo pitch control fail miserably :). Let's hope this is an exception to that rule..
If you were ever to build a bigger machine the servo control would make more sense, as then engineering the required backups and safeguards would not be so big deal compared to the overall complexity of the project.

If you want to go with the mechanical governor, instead of mounting it to the rear of the main shaft, it makes more sense to build it all to the hub. The flyweights can be attached to the blades and the synchronizing mechanism built into the center of the hub. That way you won't need to have a hollow main shaft for the adjusting rod, nor separate rods for the flyweights.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 09:03:34 AM by Janne »
Nothing's as easy as drilling a hole in the wrong place

midwoud1

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2011, 11:07:31 AM »
Some projects I made before :  Pasive and Active control

fabricator

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2011, 11:39:04 AM »
That is one beautiful machine.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

windy

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #62 on: October 30, 2011, 09:02:23 PM »
I would be concerned with water getting on the gears and freezing during the winter.

windy

midwoud1

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #63 on: October 31, 2011, 03:03:05 PM »
I see Janne's album .He has done a whole lot of work ,with a big machine and had result.
It's many times  a job with ups and downs . But as long as it works it's OK.
Have here made  some designs with passive pitch ,and that made good sense from start to run rpm.
Good pick-up start in low windspeed.
My design is still a proto-type and I like the pitch wich is quick reacting for a few degrees in let's say 4 Bft.
And the prop is not exceeding 330 rpm.
Another benefit is the possibility to set full feathering during storm.
The electronics are looking a bit complex ,but it is not.
Maybe it is not a holy solution . For the time now I can keep max. volt for the batteries in hand. Without dumpload.
And also avoid overvolt shutdown of my inverter .
Scale up can be done later .
Hope sometime other windmill-technician will try it as well.
Rgds . Frans

SparWeb

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #64 on: November 01, 2011, 12:14:48 PM »
Yup Janne probably has more DIY experience than the rest of us on this site.
His projects, and his father's, are a great way to learn how to scale up the pitch control systems you have.
Janne has posted many photos and videos of large turbines.  They include detailed discussion about pitch control (mostly of the passive variety).  Also, you may take an interest in the member "Menelaos" who also experiments with these.

In case you haven't found the feature on the forum, you can examine each member's previous postings by clicking on their name, then searching for "previous posts by this member". 
Funny, I just realized that you and the other two members I mentioned are European...   How come none of us in the Americas aren't all making pitch-control systems?  Eh?   ???
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

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midwoud1

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #65 on: November 02, 2011, 10:47:45 AM »
A good windmill friend in the Netherlands is making pitch rotorblades for many years.
He is now working on a model from a big mill ,(Enercon) according to his own technic.
It's a different design compared to mine , and he worked succesful before.
The project is in progress ,and we hope to see soon some new pictures of it.

midwoud1

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #66 on: November 08, 2011, 03:03:13 PM »
Two blade passive pitch .  Generator 12 volt  800 watt

mbouwer

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #67 on: November 09, 2011, 03:40:17 AM »

Windmill friends
Pitch control has many advantages also for small turbines.
Lets exchange ideas to improve designs for DIY

bob golding

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #68 on: November 17, 2011, 12:44:39 PM »
very goos design, but there are a lot of parts to keep working smoothly. where i am i get a lo of salt spray. next the the sea more or less. i cant help thinking there is a  more robust way to do this using pneumatics.  what i am thinking is something like the system used for manipulating models used in special effects. basicly a rolled up tube like a borden gauge made of silicon rubber. pneumatics are used in hostile environments like food processing where they get steam cleaned every day, so are by design rugged to start with. cant think of the how right now but just another thing to throw in the mix.
if i cant fix it i can fix it so it cant be fixed.

midwoud1

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #69 on: November 17, 2011, 01:30:56 PM »
I live also close to the sea , the electric actuator is no problem . The spider system is protected by a spinner ( nose cone) The thruster bearing between actuator and push-rod is OK .A critical point can be the outer nylon bushings of the blade-root-shafts . If it is I make seals on it. Pneumatics is an idea ,but on the other hand , a 12 volt actuator is easy to control with a simple electronic circuit and a relay. I work 10 years with an actuator moving tail without trouble. The blade pitch is doing very good for 4 months now.
Rgds . F.

sunbelt57

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #70 on: November 18, 2011, 06:21:51 AM »
... Add to the mix, corrosion, icing, wear, lubrication/dirt, component failure...
Here in Wyoming where there's a lot of wind (dust) and brutal winter weather these factors are something to consider.

mbouwer

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #71 on: November 20, 2011, 01:59:28 PM »
That's why we want to think about a design where components like blade suspensions are neatly closed in.
e.g. a polyester double layers sealed nosecone/rotorhead in which the blades are attached.                                                   
See professional turbines like Enercon, Darwind etc.

midwoud1

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #72 on: November 23, 2011, 02:01:14 PM »
Spinner constuction.
I start to make a stack of plywood-discs 18mm in the tapered shape of a cone .
Put them together with an M8 threaded rod on a rotary-table . Primer coating. Fixed a template with the exact cone-form on the machine-bed. Polyester  putty on the cone and turn the rotary-table around . Finish with fine emery-paper.The result is a good positive model of the spinner.
2) Made a negative mould of 7 layers of 160gram fiber and polyester . On top of the cone a 6mm x 50mm tubing to take the mould off the model with water pressure . Inside the mould I made the real spinner with 7 layers 160 gr fiber . Primer 2 comp polyester paint .Final mat black.4434-1

SparWeb

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #73 on: November 23, 2011, 02:28:22 PM »
Midwoud,
That's a great system.  Years ago I had a similar project, but made it much more difficult for myself than that.

When using "water pressure" to separate the plug and mold, do you mean that you only had to fit a water hose to the hole at the bottom of the plug - presumably the hole that was for the long threaded rod in earlier stages to bond the stack of plywood?

What about the template bar in the upper photo - is it metal?  To make a metal part that matches the elliptical contour would require a CNC, but using more wood to make that template would require nothing but a coping saw.  So I'm curious about the way that template came to be.

No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, regulated by Xantrex C40, DIY 8ft diameter wind turbine, regulated by Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024

midwoud1

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #74 on: November 23, 2011, 02:57:00 PM »
Hi SparWeb
The piece of tubing is embedded on top of the negative mould . Separate by home-water pressure 3 bar. Before I already made a drawing of the elliptical line . Bring it over on a 2mm metal sheet with a cardboard template and cut it with a coping saw .The plywood discs were also made with the coping saw on the needed angle according to my drawing. The elliptical line on the drawing was made with a steel 1mm wire supported on the ends and at several points between. Draw with a pencil. And a needle on the template. No CNC needed.
On the wooden model there was no extra material to remove, because it had already its form.
 
Rgds . F.

fabricator

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #75 on: November 23, 2011, 04:00:27 PM »
What about the template bar in the upper photo - is it metal?  To make a metal part that matches the elliptical contour would require a CNC, but using more wood to make that template would require nothing but a coping saw.  So I'm curious about the way that template came to be.

You don't NEED CNC, all you need is a template from anything, cardboard, thin aluminum etc, and a band saw or a plasma cutter. Folks were building spinners LONG before CNC was even dreamed of.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

Dave B

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #76 on: November 23, 2011, 04:11:32 PM »
Great work,

  I use a similar process for a solid nose cone which could be used for making a mold as well. I use many layers of solid foam insulation just the same as your plywood. This is glued and stacked the same way and mounted on a round disk of plywood as a base. A center bolt is mounted in this base plate and the whole assembly is then chucked and turned on a lathe or chucked in a drill press and turned to shape with a rasp. After that I finish it with typical cloth and fiberglass and finish sand back on the lathe or drill press. It's time consuming but to me it's well worth the effort with a machine that looks finished. Fot my template I just drew it in Auto Cad then tile printed it, taped it together on a piece of cardboard and cut it out, later I made a more permanent template from plexiglass.   Dave B.
DCB Energy Systems
http://dcbenergy.com/

fabricator

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #77 on: November 23, 2011, 04:55:22 PM »
That is gonna be one of the best looking machines ever on this forum.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

SparWeb

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #78 on: November 23, 2011, 07:20:18 PM »
Wow I must have the settings all wrong on my other computer screen.  Now I'm sitting at another computer and the picture CLEARLY shows a simple sheet of steel.  Thin enough I could snip it with hand shears.
Now I feel silly about the "metal bar" question.   :P  Looks even better now though!
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, regulated by Xantrex C40, DIY 8ft diameter wind turbine, regulated by Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024

midwoud1

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #79 on: November 24, 2011, 02:16:56 AM »
Making a plug ,we can use a pottery turntable with a template as well. Many people have one. But I wont bother them.
An other method is the way churchbell makers do. With a swinging around compass of plywood. I used this method to make
satellite dish-antennas with 2 meters diameter. The plug was made with a soft core (sand) and a cement skin.
The template parabolic line is math calculated.

Rgds : F .

TomW

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #80 on: November 24, 2011, 06:21:21 AM »

The template parabolic line is math calculated.

Rgds : F .

I have seen a method to do this with a square, a string, pencil with a thumbtack. Simple, hillbilly tech!

Here is an example:

http://www.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/sites/genevieve_tulloue/conics/drawing/para_string.html

Just because I thought it was nifty.

Tom
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