Author Topic: Active Pitchcontrol  (Read 332082 times)

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domi

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #198 on: April 29, 2012, 03:32:47 AM »
Frans,
Congratulations on your engineering. Active control is a challenge to us DIY people without lathes but with big hammers in lieu and left hands. The Jacobs idea of passive control is simple with the centrifugal force of the props pulling against springs and turning the prop. The engineering challenge there is to mill a spiral into a hollow shaft to achieve the correct pitch with the pull from the props.

The Jacobs certainly had a reputation for longevity and they are still spinning to this day.

fabricator

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #199 on: April 29, 2012, 08:28:59 AM »
I don't think they had a spiral cut tube, the early ones had a pin that rode up a ramp as the blades were pulled out, the new system uses a spider and ball links
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

dloefffler

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #200 on: April 29, 2012, 08:51:17 AM »
It would be nice if we could get a wiki like book/site/section together that started to summarize these ideas along with drawings. There have been some very clever ideas here over the years and it is very difficult to find them and put them to use.

Histories of what has worked, how long, where it failed, when it failed could avoid a great deal of duplicated effort.

The original ideas seem to work until they don't. I do miss the Dans' reports of spectacular failures, the evenings of song, etc.

Then again, perhaps after the basic idea, more is not better just more.

Dennis

midwoud1

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #201 on: April 29, 2012, 04:43:17 PM »
There are drawings of the Jacobs passive pitch on internet.
I have seen a centrifugal system and a special gear ,crown and pinion to change blade angle.
Without a spiral gunbarrel shaft.
The active pitch reliability depends on the use of a good actuator (Linak) and ball bearings on the blade root-shafts.
I have it succesful for 8 months.
Another 2 designs are under construction, Marijn and Mbouwer in the Netherlands.
Working with nowadays technic .
If something fails in my design I will report it.

 Rgds.  - Frans -

Menelaos

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #202 on: May 07, 2012, 04:24:12 PM »
by the way...
There is this guy on youtube that has built some really nice machines...
He now seems to experiment with passive pitch as well...and I wanted to post it as it refers to the topic...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vO5hzFMW14&feature=channel&list=UL

Max

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #203 on: May 07, 2012, 05:45:17 PM »
Hi Max.
Thanks for the link . That must be in Spain or Portugal.
Looks good , he has his own ideas . ( multi slip-rings )
Curiuos to know how he made control : auto - manual ?
Pitty he closed answering on YouTube to have more info.
Maybe language.
How are your doing with your design ?  And  blade manufacturing.

Rgds - Frans -

Menelaos

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #204 on: May 07, 2012, 06:26:43 PM »
Hello Frans,

So far I have made some sets for testing and I have purchased a chainsaw but bought the wrong thing...
I have made up a few designs for various diameters of props for laminated wood beam dimensions that are common over here so noone has to bother with surface planing line I did.

Here are some pictures that I have made in solid works. First I carve them on my computer, then in my work shop ;-)

But I do not want to get too much off topic...I wonder that this topic got out of fashion so quickly...but for some reason it is still on top of the list...wonder why



Max

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #205 on: May 07, 2012, 07:06:15 PM »
Frans's design has that thing beat all to hell and gone, the link system is similar to the Jacobs passive design.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

Menelaos

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #206 on: May 08, 2012, 09:01:50 AM »
Frans,

I like your new design, a little bit reminds me of this one that I found about a year ago:


Max

mbouwer

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #207 on: May 08, 2012, 05:06:05 PM »
Windmillfriends,

Because it's very beneficial, more and more big turbines have a single main bearing construction.
We are trying to make a small ( e.g. 30 cm diameter ) good and simple light version of such a bearing.
Also installing active pitch control becomes a lot easier then.

Regards Rinus

midwoud1

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #208 on: May 28, 2012, 10:17:57 AM »
Rotorhead design 2.
Without gear . Mockup prototype.
To find measurements.
The generator will be between the flanges.
Propeller diam. 10 - 12 foot.
Actuator Linak  10 mm / sec.
Control :  Microcontroller Arduino  and software .

- Frans -

fabricator

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #209 on: May 28, 2012, 12:46:25 PM »
That is fantastic, it's amazing how the design process works, one question, where will your main shaft bearings be?
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

midwoud1

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #210 on: May 29, 2012, 02:38:03 PM »
Hi Fab.
Don't worry .The permanent mainshaft is a 30 mm diam. C45 hollow shaft  ( 10 mm ).
200 mm lenght behind the rotorhead flange, enough for the bearings.
I'm  making an extended drill for it and go to a mechanical friend who has a lathe with a bigger chuck

Rgds - Frans -

fabricator

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #211 on: May 29, 2012, 06:34:41 PM »
Beautiful, do you have gunsmiths over there? They drill stuff like that all the time.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

midwoud1

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #212 on: June 10, 2012, 07:05:46 AM »
Pitch-controlled H-bird .

Hollow mainshaft . 300 x 30 x 10 mm
Modified actuator , adjustable stroke .
Pillowblocks 25 mm hub , 30 mm mainshaft.
Bearing push-pull in spider piston.
Adjustable flanges 120 x 6 mm fixation rotorblades .

 - Frans -

fabricator

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #213 on: June 10, 2012, 08:59:13 AM »
Cool, that actuator setup is kind of.......not to elegant though, no offense intended, check out this line of actuators, could you see one of these mounted directly to your shaft, I'm not sure how much they cost, probably a lot but you could have one made for your specific length, and it sounds like the actuator could communicate with a simple plc or your micro controller.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

midwoud1

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #214 on: June 14, 2012, 04:45:51 PM »
Hi Fab.
Right . I know those programmable actuators ( with signals for endstop and feedback indicator) but I had an actuator laying for a long time for free.
I have made a plug and play connection on the microcontroller relay board to run every actuator.
Have made a new spinner . Separated from the mold with garden-hose pressure.

- Frans -

fabricator

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #215 on: June 14, 2012, 07:08:05 PM »
That spinner is beautiful.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

Bruce S

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #216 on: June 15, 2012, 03:48:30 AM »
It'll be interesting to see what paint scheme you select. ;) for the spinner.

A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

midwoud1

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #217 on: June 15, 2012, 02:29:37 PM »
Bruce,
Sandpaper waterproof 240 , Polyester laquer 2 component ( Double Coat ) , sandpaper WP 240,
Synthetic paint ( mat black ) white spirit based .

Rgds - Frans -

midwoud1

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #218 on: June 16, 2012, 10:51:26 AM »
Pitchcontrolled blades 3,22 m diam.
The noise is from an unstabilized powersupply 24 dc .
Mu- controller holds Rpm between 200 - 360 .  Autostop and manual in highwind.

- Frans -

midwoud1

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JW

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #220 on: June 16, 2012, 12:00:30 PM »

fabricator

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #221 on: June 16, 2012, 12:26:33 PM »
As us rednecks in America say that is fandamntastic, there is nothing more beautiful than beautiful mechanical mechanism working perfectly, Frans you are a World class Journeyman in multiple trades.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

midwoud1

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #222 on: June 16, 2012, 03:25:02 PM »

 
JW. Thanks for embedding the video. My computer still refuse it.


All people who have a bit experience with metal have the same good feeling with results.
Sometimes it is blood and sweat.
If you see my lathe you start laughing : center to bed is 7 cm , between centers 25 cm.
Bigger discs are made with a mill and a rotary table , all conventional.
My next rotor discs are made waterjet or laser.

fabricator

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #223 on: June 16, 2012, 05:21:45 PM »
Exactly, that is the definition of a true journeyman, you can do pretty much anything with nothing. ;)
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

midwoud1

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #224 on: June 18, 2012, 03:39:51 PM »
 @TomW.

Thanks . The project is going on. Still some work to do.

Rgds . - Frans -

Frank S

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #225 on: June 18, 2012, 07:06:14 PM »
Exactly, that is the definition of a true journeyman, you can do pretty much anything with nothing. ;)
back in the day when I had a time card job in used to have a plaque on my tool cabinet

 We the unwilling
led by the unknowing '
are expected to to the impossible for the ungrateful.
 we have now done so much with so little for so long
we are fully qualified to do practically anything with nothing.
I live so far outside of the box, when I die they will stretch my carcass over the coffin

fabricator

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #226 on: June 18, 2012, 08:01:29 PM »
The first shop I worked in when dinosaurs walked the earth had that on the front wall on a poster about 3 feet by four feet.
Right next to the one that read " Your lack of planning is in no way an emergency for me" LOL.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

kensue49

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #227 on: June 18, 2012, 10:15:23 PM »
You are good and I like the vice grips. :D

fabricator

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #228 on: June 19, 2012, 07:59:29 AM »
If it were not for visegrips civilization as we know it would not be possible ;) I've often used vise grips to hold vise grips in place. LOL
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

Mary B

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #229 on: June 19, 2012, 03:26:46 PM »
One of my old beater trucks from the days I was super poor went down the road with a brake line vice gripped shut  :o got me 3 month until I could afford to fix it  ;D braked a little funny but what the heck.

midwoud1

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #230 on: June 20, 2012, 12:06:31 PM »
MaryAlana
We are glad you'r still here. ;D


-JW edit- use ; D (without the space to make that smiley)
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 08:09:41 PM by JW »