Author Topic: Active Pitchcontrol  (Read 191133 times)

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mbouwer

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #486 on: December 10, 2016, 01:57:31 PM »
Small size. Fun to do.

mbouwer

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #487 on: December 23, 2016, 07:18:01 AM »
To all windmillfriends,
Merry Christmas and a lot of energy for the coming year

Bruce S

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #488 on: December 23, 2016, 08:24:17 AM »
AND a VERY MERRY Christmas to you as well.
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

mbouwer

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #489 on: January 07, 2017, 03:20:49 AM »
More details of this test setup on Ecoforum  http://www.ecologieforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2566&start=1140

hiker

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #490 on: January 07, 2017, 04:39:19 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSqNOVECurc          just a vid of my radial bike alt...mag powered ..
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mbouwer

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #491 on: January 10, 2017, 03:11:16 AM »
Nice device. I guess you used iron in your coils and can you tell something about that?

hiker

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #492 on: January 10, 2017, 09:26:15 AM »
just a on going hobby with me....its a 20-15  3 phase alt..coils two in hand #17 wire..hit 400 watts at  28v ..briefly ! Using a 400 watt aircraft landing light..coils are mounted to a iron band..with iron inserts in the coil holes...mags are ceramic .with small neos glued to the top of the neos as well..mounted a auto rad. Fan ..just for a load..works great for that..hits up to 8 or 9 amps at around 20v..plus it keeps you cool as well..coils are a bit over kill at two in hand...makes a good batt. Charger as well..chugs along at 5 amps 13v fairly easy...grandkids like to work out on it..makin Sparks fly..or breaking water down into gas..HHo...💥
 
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hiker

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #493 on: January 10, 2017, 09:29:02 AM »
Mags are ceramic with neos glued to the top !
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mbouwer

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #494 on: January 15, 2017, 02:30:24 AM »
The ceiling fan generator is back on the test stand.
If I drive it now with another motor. Does power come off it?

midwoud1

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #495 on: February 04, 2017, 12:46:54 PM »
Hi Rinus.

Do have power with motordrive on your celingfan generator?
On Youtube there are several ceilingfans converted to generators.

Rgds: Midwoud1,

mbouwer

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #496 on: February 05, 2017, 02:56:05 AM »
The ceilingfan motor is in its original state. I only have made a new axle in it.
I would like to find a way to use it as a generator. ( without neodymium )

hiker

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #497 on: February 05, 2017, 09:55:38 AM »
Cheap ceramic mags...output will be low...rewired one of mine...with some heavy wire..mounted next to a small gas engine..hit 15-20 amps output...if your going with small stuff..just use a car or truck alt...you can play around with the field coil power input to get the power output you want...treadmill motors are another way....motor conversions ........lot of options......
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Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #498 on: February 05, 2017, 06:40:31 PM »
The point of going with permanent magnets is that the excitation field costs you a lump sum at initial construction.  With a wound field the excitation costs you an ongoing drain on your produced (or stored) energy.  This is worst when the incoming wind is low, and not just in proportion:  The slower you're spinning, the more excitation power you need to get a given output voltage.

In addition to eating much of your production (and the most when you need it the most because wind is low), wound-field excitation has the effect of raising your cutin wind speed (by eating all of your output at otherwise usable low speeds) and thus drastically reducing the fraction of the year your mill actually generates anything useful.  While wound-field generators are usable, they need a larger turbine and oversized generator, compared to a permanent magnet alternator, to deliver something useful.

Ferrite is pretty wimpy, as are most other non-rare-earth magnets, so you don't get much out of your converted fan motor's stator's already low power flux guides and windings.  Neodymium magnets were the breakthrough that took us to really practical home-brew microgeneration mills.  In a motor conversion they are strong enough to saturate the transformer iron laminates, which gets as much power out of the windings on them as it is possible to get.

If you don't want to buy some neos, see if you can find some scrapped computer disk drives and pull the neo magnets from their head actuators.

DON'T break them to fit:  Neos are plated to protect them from corrosion and will rapidly rot away if the plating is compromised.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 06:44:42 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

Adriaan Kragten

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #499 on: February 06, 2017, 04:03:42 AM »
It is possible to get a strong magnetic field in the air gap if ferrite magnets are used but only if the magnetic flux is concentrated. Concentration is only possible for radial positioning of the magnets. To prevent a strong fluctuation of the clogging torque, the magnet grooves have to be inclined with the correct angle with respect to the generator axis. One of my first PM-generators was made this way from a 12-pole car generator and it reached an open DC voltage of 12 V at a rotational speed of 900 rpm, so at about the same rotational speed as for the original generator with an electromagnetic armature for the maximum armature current. This PM-generator is described in chapter 3 of my free public report KD-341.

mbouwer

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #500 on: February 07, 2017, 01:58:48 PM »
This is the ceiling-fan motor with its original stator and rotor.
Only thing I did was to make a hollow ( pitch control) shaft with heavier ball bearings in it to attach the blades.

Now if you drive it above its nominal number of revolutions per minute:
Will there be a chance then that it starts functioning as a generator?

« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 02:07:08 PM by mbouwer »

Bruce S

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #501 on: February 07, 2017, 02:11:13 PM »
mbouwer;
IF that ring that I'm seeing is in fact magnets, then YES you will see voltage.
From shaky memory cells, you will actually begin to see a voltage when you begin to spin it.
The voltages will probably be high with a low current abilities.

Best would be to start spinning the motor with known speeds and a volt-meter to find beginning of voltages and highest out.
Once there, you can go further if you wish.
OF course; your current limits are going to be a function of the wire sizes.

Cheers;
Bruce S
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Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #502 on: February 07, 2017, 07:32:04 PM »
This is the ceiling-fan motor with its original stator and rotor.
Only thing I did was to make a hollow ( pitch control) shaft with heavier ball bearings in it to attach the blades.

Now if you drive it above its nominal number of revolutions per minute:
Will there be a chance then that it starts functioning as a generator?

It has a two-phase winding.

The ring looks like a "squirrel cage" - a conductive component dragged around by the magnetic field from the coil/laminate assembly and the magnetiztion from the eddy currents that field generates within it.

If you connect a capacator across ONE of the phases to make a resonant circuit (leaving it otherwise unconnected), leave the other unloaded at low voltages (for instance, by hooking it to a rectifier and battery, which won't pull appreciable current until the voltage gets to the battery voltage plus two diode drops), and the rotor has a bit of residual magnetiztion to get things started, when you spin it up to where it's going a tad faster than the RPM corresponding to the resonance, you should start pumping energy into the "ringing" of the tuned circuit - up to the point where the core is saturating.  It will start "fighting back" to try to keep itself from spinning appreciably above that RPM.

At that point the magnetic lines that are "nearly pinned" by the eddy currents in the rotor will also be dragging through the other phase's winding, generating a voltage and transforming shaft HP into electrical energy you can harvest.

There are substantial downsides to this approach - among them that (like a wound field) you have copper losses, both in the resonant winding and the rotor, and that it only works at a narrow range of RPM.  Nevertheless, it can give you nontrivial generation without further conversion of the rotating electrical machine to add either magnets or a field coil to the rotor.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 07:38:01 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

mbouwer

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #503 on: February 08, 2017, 03:43:14 AM »
It is a FRAMEWAY AC~ CEILING FAN MODEL: FW 48 230 V~ 50 HZ 60 W 310 rpm

Can you tell me how to start to get those 60 Watts out of it?

hiker

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #504 on: February 08, 2017, 11:04:35 AM »
Made a few ceiling fan gens...toss the ring...super glue mags on the inner side of a case cover..use spacers if you have to ..to get a close air gap ...on your motor it looks like ..the mags would have to overhang a bit..sence your case is split down the middle of the motor ?  Should still work..just glue down well...I like to use epoxy stick..to fill in the gap between the mags..drys rock hard..then just resemble the motor...tah dah....your done...just give a spin...and light up some l.e.d.s....yours is a high voltage motor...not sure what it would do...ide rewire for 12v use if that's what want...easy to do on these little motors....have fun...
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hiker

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #505 on: February 08, 2017, 11:20:34 AM »
Ps..the amount of mags are determined by the number of coils you have..on the outer ends of the lams..looks like ..14-16.?..  That's the number of mags you need..glue the mags down..north south north south..all the way around..just hold a mag in your hand.. Put near a case mounted mag..it should pull your hand down..next case mounted mag should push your hand away..then next mag will of course pull your hand down...and around you go....simple...
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hiker

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #506 on: February 08, 2017, 11:23:25 AM »
Now if you want to rewire for 3 phase....its a whole different  story..
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mbouwer

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #507 on: February 08, 2017, 02:55:06 PM »
My goal is: -- not to use neodymium ( or ceramic magnets )
                 -- participate in a team to design and make a real nice direct drive generator.

hiker

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #508 on: February 08, 2017, 07:50:40 PM »
Try a cap. Across the lead out wires..hit it with a few volts while its spinning..Should only take a secound..then disconnect power..if that worked..you should have power output on the lead out wires..check with a voltage meter...then try a small load....won't get much with that motor...if you get no power out....then you will have to make some small field coils for each output coil..not sure if that would work on such a low output motor.gen...of course you will have to hit it with a few volts to get things started..done this with car alts..once going the alt powers the field coil......
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mbouwer

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #509 on: February 09, 2017, 02:35:16 PM »
I understand that this is a wrong way trying to make a generator. It wo'nt work.

Hiker,
You mentioned rewiring for 3 phase. Is that an option?
The outer ring is 14 coils. The inner ring 7 coils.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2017, 02:56:16 PM by mbouwer »

mbouwer

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #510 on: February 14, 2017, 12:40:28 PM »
Not so many wind turbine builders here in the Netherlands. But I always want to come in contact with them.


Bruce S

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #511 on: February 14, 2017, 01:57:05 PM »
I like the blades!
You do know that once you put up a 'mill there's normally 3 days of no wind  ;).

Cheers;
Bruce
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mbouwer

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Re: Active Pitchcontrol
« Reply #512 on: February 14, 2017, 02:17:46 PM »
The turbine is from the Danish Technical University

Cheers Rinus