IcyBall help

[Atokatim]

Hello all once again!  I am on another mission to create an IcyBall for a form of refrigeration.  I don't fully understand the way the icyball works, but I am interested in possibly using it for a cooling system.  What I am wondering is how the cycles work.  I know there is a heating cycle, and cooling cycle.  When one side is heated, the other side collects the evaporated ammonia.  When the heated side is removed from the heat source, which side gets cold?

For the build, I am trying to figure what containers would be best for my first build.  Does the system need to be pressurized or under a vacuum?  When it is heated, what pressures does it reach?  I have 2 each 5 gallon air tanks but they have thin walls and I am not sure they can handle the pressure.  I also have a small propane tank which I got from an old grill.  I am not sure about using that either even though I have seen them used in other builds.  Any recommendations on what containers are best for either side?

For an idea of what I am thinking of building, if it is even possible.... I plan on trying to build a small cooling unit for my 16 x 20 shed using the icyball.  I am not sure how well it would work, but put the cold side in a container of water which sits above a radiator.  Since warmer water will rise to the top, I would have the radiator below the entire setup with a solar powered fan to push air through it which would hopefully help cool off my shed in the summer.  Is this even a feasible idea?

[JW]

This post is on the edge, try not to post nonsense

[JW]

I am on another mission to create an IcyBall for a form of refrigeration.  I don't fully understand the way the icyball works, but I am interested in possibly using it for a cooling system.

Well im not sure how a snowcone works either

[Atokatim]

Sorry if i was not clear with what I posted above.  I am not trying to post non sense, I promise!  What I was trying to say is that I know the Crosley IcyBall can be used to cool a small container, but can it be used in an air conditioning application using water which is cooled from the cold side?

[kensue49]

A quick web search of the Icyball, I have never heard of, found some interesting information of its use for refrigeration in the past.
It would be nice if you can scale it up for room use.
I hope to hear more.
Kenneth

[JW]

I think a link would be helpful, never heard of the process

[Atokatim]

http://crosleyautoclub.com/IcyBall/crosley_icyball.html

Here is some basic information about them.

I may have missed it, but I am trying to understand which is the cold side during the cooling phase.  This will determine how I build it.

Edit : One the same page I just posted, I read one of the answers to one of the questions above...  The hot side evaporated the ammonia into the cold side.  When heat is removed, the ammonia can absorb back into the water in the hot side through the bubbler.  Now to figure what container I can use for each size.  That is the reason for the post is to gather some basic information from others who may have built one in the past.  The pressure in the system when not in use and when heated is needed so I don't have a disaster on my hands using the wrong containers.

[kensue49]

Last picture on right at the bottom of the page, of you link, will carry you to a very helpful web site.
Kenneth

[Atokatim]

I have read over just about everything on those pages, but still can't seem to find if the system is pressurized when not in use.  I have access to a tig welder and 1,000 PSI Stainless pipe, but I don't want to use it unless needed since I have another project that I hope to use it on.  That is why I was wondering if propane tanks would work since I have seen them in other builds, but have not seen any writeups on them actually working or how efficient they are.  The ball containers used in the link here : http://crosleyautoclub.com/IcyBall/HomeBuilt/HomeBuilt.html are ones I cannot seem to find.

[JW]

Here's what I came up with from the link, definitly interesting. Makes me think a about a propane refrigerator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator

The Icyball is an intermittent heat absorption type of refrigerator. A water/ammonia mixture is used as the refrigerant . Water and ammonia combine easily. So, they combine in the hot ball at room temperature.

When the hot ball is heated, for about 90 minutes, the ammonia evaporates first because it has a lower boiling point than water.

http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/chemweek/PDF/Ammonia.pdf

The polarity of NH3 molecules and their ability to form hydrogen bonds explains to some extent the
high solubility of ammonia in water. However, a chemical reaction also occurs when ammonia dissolves in
water. In aqueous solution, ammonia acts as a base, acquiring hydrogen ions from H2O to yield ammonium
and hydroxide ions.
NH3(aq) + H2O(l) NH4
+(aq) + OHG(aq)
The production of hydroxide ions when ammonia dissolves in water gives aqueous solutions of ammonia
their characteristic alkaline (basic) properties. The double arrow in the equation indicates that an equilibrium
is established between dissolved ammonia gas and ammonium ions. Not all of the dissolved ammonia reacts
with water to form ammonium ions. A substantial fraction remains in the molecular form in solution. In other
words, ammonia is a weak base

If you add ACS ammonium hydroxide to water, it gets hot, same with potassium hydroxide.

[Atokatim]

One other thing I am wondering about is the ammonium.  Is ammonium nitrate dissolved in water the same or close to the same and would that work as the mixture for the IcyBall?  I have tried a few experiments with some ammonium nitrate bought at a local farming warehouse.  The first experiment was putting the pellets in water and dissolving them then boiling the water which after it cooled created some form of crystals.  I am not sure what the crystals are though?  They smell like ammonia though.  The other test was getting the water to slowly steam off which after awhile the ammonia smell got pretty strong even outside in the open.  I know it is toxic so I quit that experiment.

[oztules]

The cold side is the evaporator ball (ammonia liquid boils to ammonia gas. Boiling point about -30c. If we don't find somewhere to put the gas, the pressure will build, and stop the evaporation.... so we dissolve it in a liquid.

You will have to use only pure water and anhydrous ammonia, or the partial pressures and boiling points will be all messed up I think.... no air either. The pressure will come about when you boil off the ammonia with heat.

It is not quite like the absorption fridge. It uses hydrogen to regulate the partial pressures, allowing the ammonia to boil at higher pressures in the evaporator.

My father wrote some articles about the early icyball fridges in Australia many years ago.... don't know what happened to them..


......oztules

[DanG]

water, liquid ammonia, hydrogen gas and sodium chromate as a rust preventative are in propane powered absorption refrigerators.

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

Wikipedia is your friend:  "The concentration of such solutions is measured in units of the Baumé scale (density), with 26 degrees baumé (about 30% w/w ammonia at 15.5 °C) being the typical high-concentration commercial product.  Household ammonia ranges in concentration from 5 to 10 weight percent ammonia."

So if you wanted to homebrew one of these you could probably fill it by:
 - Making the version with the "hold the charge" valve.
 - Filling the hot ball with unscented household ammonia.
 - Pumping it down to a vacuum.
then repeat:
 - Running a charge cycle.
 - Shutting the value.
 - Opening the hot side and replacing the depleted solution with fresh household ammonia.
 - Pumping a vacuum in the hot side only.
 - Opening the valve.
and repeat the last four steps for about a total of something like five times, until you've distilled enough ammonia into the cold side to get the charge right.  (You can weigh it when the hot side is empty to see how much ammonia you've accumulated.)

I would NEVER let one of these homebrew units into my house.  All those joints and the valve (and the sight glasses on the homebrew plans) are potential points of failure and it has enough liquid ammonia in it to mortally wound you before you could escape if it fails suddenly.  A totally welded shut unit (preferably a commercial one) might be OK but I'd only "charge" it outdoors (and stand far upwind as much as possible in case it went while under pressure).

I've had an absorption fridge in a travel trailer fail - with a slow leak - and give me a facefull of ammonia gas when I was opened it trying to see what was happening when giving the trailer a periodic check.  Even being able to exhale immediately and leave the trailer before taking another breath I was sore for a week and have no idea what permanent damage my lungs may have sustained.  I'll never have one of those inside a house either (though I'll still use them in a travel trailer).  Residential units are also a notorious fire hazard.

[dnix71]

Ammonia makes me nervous, too. I wouldn't want any ammonia absorbtion unit around me. When I was little, my parents took me to the boardwalk in Daytona Beach. I went to pee in a proper restroom, but nearly passed out doing it. I was short and closer to the floor and someone had swabbed the deck with ammonia. It took me a while to catch my breath outside. No one else in the room seemed to be affected.

Bleach fumes, OTOH, don't make me ill at all.

The IcyBall won't cool a room, but it could be used to run a fridge from waste heat. It runs intermittent, not continuously.

[JW]

Bleach fumes, OTOH, don't make me ill at all.

ya this is- HCL - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid

The vapors from ACS HCL smell burnt and are noxious.

Ammonia smells like/is smelling salts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhydrous_ammonia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_hydroxide

When I worked with this stuff I wore a respirator/safety glasses/teflon gloves

[XeonPony]

You need pure anhydrous amonia and Hydrogen,  I don't know the ratio of water to amonia for best absorption but that is the stuff.

You need a reflux culum on the hot end to help remove any water vapour from going to the cold side.

Once mixed in the water you draw a partial vacuum then you add the hydrogen, the hydrogen reduces vapour pressure of the amonia making it boil off slightly cooler as with making it eisier for the vapour to travel back to the absorber.