Author Topic: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris  (Read 14032 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

yeshuaiaism

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« on: April 22, 2012, 12:12:36 PM »
I'm just wanting to share with you guys my success with a 2 door Toyota Yaris Hatchback.

Basically with a light foot on the pedal, slightly overinflated tires, I'm getting around 50 mpg on the highway, 42 in the city.

I paid $15,000 for the car.

Comparing this to vehicles such as the Nissan Leaf which is fully electric, the numbers work out pretty amazingly with today's gas prices.

Nissan leaf base price is going to be $34,000
Toyota Yaris base price is $15,000

Nissan leaf never needs gas, and as crazy as this may sound, for the sake of argument, I'm going to say that the leaf gets "free gas" and will not compute the cost of the electricity.

Basically with simple math, the Leaf is $19,000 more than the Yaris in base price.   

On average, at $3.85 a gallon in Dallas, TX prices, this means that I can fill up my Yaris, 493 times on the BASE PRICE difference.

On average, I get nearly 365 miles per tank on the Yaris.    This means I can travel about 170,000 to 180,000 miles  BEFORE I even add up the cost of the base price difference on the Nissan Leaf.   If I have a heavier foot, 150,000 miles.

Considering that many Hybrids need new driving battery packs, and probably the Nissan Leaf would need a new battery pack by 150k-180k miles that costs thousands, it is hard to imagine just on ECONOMIC REASONS ever paying the price difference for a hybrid.   Also factor in depreciation and it just does not make any economic sense.   Also the Leaf has a 50-60 mile range with accessories.

Also of course like I said, there are many KWh that will go into charging the leaf that will jack up your power bill.   Plug in hybrids are somewhat of the same monster financially.  A converted Prius hybrid will have battery packs, KWh's, and has a 40k base price after conversion.  When all is said and done, a Prius hybrid will get 65mpg.

Nobody get me wrong, if the base price was cheaper on either a full electric or a hybrid, I'd be right there.  But at nearly 50mpg (highway no accessories and slightly overinflated tires) in my Yaris, with such a cheap base price and awesome reliability, it is hard for me to convert to alternative transportation.

Hopefully people here have some much cheaper solutions & less power - consumption - etc.  In my area I'd probably be ran over with an ebike.   Motorcycles are death traps around here too.

I'm still not sure why the manufacturer rates the Yaris so low in MPG.  It does WAY better than they are claiming.  I wonder if its so they can sell more hybrids?

JW

  • Development Manager
  • SuperHero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2241
  • Country: us
    • Flashsteam.com
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2012, 12:21:12 PM »
This is a diy wind turbine forum, your post may be deleted. You are off topic.

« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 12:23:55 PM by JW »

yeshuaiaism

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2012, 12:29:31 PM »
oops meant to post in transportation.

JW

  • Development Manager
  • SuperHero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2241
  • Country: us
    • Flashsteam.com
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2012, 12:34:43 PM »
When a new user with less than 5 posts comes across like a public service announcement it sets off some alarms around here.

cheers
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 12:40:52 PM by JW »

Bruce S

  • Global Moderator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 4339
  • Country: us
  • USA
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2012, 12:51:16 PM »
Looks like someone behind the scenes moved into correct section before I did.
Welcome to the board and thanks for doing the math on this.
You are not alone with this thinking.
A Popular Mechanics guy did the same thing back in the 70s (I think), when the first fuel embargo happened and fuel went from. 049 /gal up to an alarming 1.25/gal by 1975 :-) .
I have a friend who paid the extra money for that feel-good reason, which is OK by me, and an honest one.
I can understand the expense due to battery technology catches up, but I'm with you. Until the are equal in price I'll just use some hypermiling techniques :-) .
Cheers
Bruce S
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

JW

  • Development Manager
  • SuperHero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2241
  • Country: us
    • Flashsteam.com
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2012, 01:00:38 PM »
Bruce, if you notice carefully, you have Green blocks by GM in this post, there blue in your other posts. Just an observation. (I can't do this btw, maybe 360 and Danf)

Here's a tune for the 'twilight zone'  :)

The Fixx - Built for the Future
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6HzUdW0S90

The Dream Academy - Life In A Northern Town (1985)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBJRckv8ym8


JW
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 01:21:23 PM by JW »

zap

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
  • There's an app for that
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2012, 02:09:34 PM »
Great post... it's nice to see some real numbers on the Yaris.

I picked up a used '07 Silverado a year and a half ago.  Single cab, full bed 4x2 and has the 4.3L V6 w/auto.
I put a partial belly pan under the front and closed some holes on the bumper last year but I don't think it did much.

A few weeks ago I built a "ramp" out of OSB to cover the bed from the bumper up to the tool box.  I've been working out of town and it's a 200 mile trip one way.
I got 26.8 mpg going up and 27.5 coming down the first time I drove my truck then 27 going up the next week and 28.9 on the return.  On that last trip I briefly saw 29.2 mpg on my ultraguage before I ran into rush hour traffic close to home.
Nothing too scientific since I've never made this trip in this truck before... but I was happy :)

taylorp035

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1007
  • Country: us
  • Stressed spelled backwards is Desserts
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2012, 08:32:03 PM »
For me, a $10,500 tax credit from Pa and the govt would change the math significantly.  Also, I were to change out my daily driver @ 21.5 mpg, this would also  help the math.  As for electricity, an all electric car would be in the ball park of ~$2,000 over the lifetime of the vehicle, compared to $15-20k for a gas vehicle, obviously different depending how you calculate it.  Also, I would not have to replace plastic intake manifolds or radiator expansion tanks in an electric car.

I could drive my SMV @ 2,000 mpg, but at $500/gal, it's not really economical or feasible unless I switch to normal gas.


I might reconsider my personal transportation this summer since my new job may be 50 miles round trip instead of 22 miles from last summer.  But why throw out a perfectly good car with 70k miles on it???

gizmo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 379
  • Country: au
    • The Back Shed
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2012, 09:58:41 PM »
"$3.85 a gallon"

Man I cant believe how cheap fuel is for you guys. Enjoy it while it lasts, cause it wont. We pay about $1.60 a litre here, thats about $6.40 a gallon in your money.

I think its going to be some time, if at all, that a all electric vehicle can compete with a fuel burning vehicle for cost and convenience. There's a lot of stored energy in a tank of fuel, you can drive for several hundred km, spend 5 minues refueling, and do the same distance over and over again. For a big wide country fuel will rule for some time yet. I think we will see smarter use of fuel in the short term, alternative fuels.

All electric does have a place, like public transport, inner city driving, but its just not suitable for everyone yet.

Glenn


SparWeb

  • SuperHero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3105
  • Country: ca
    • Wind Turbine Project Field Notes
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2012, 12:18:00 AM »
It's funny, it doesn't take long to attract the attention of Big Brother.  This post has only been up for 13 hours and garnered 156 views, but already the Google ad banners top and bottom are for compact cars!!!  They cycle through a series so if I hit "refresh" I guess I'd see something different, and for you the next viewer, and everyone who comes next, you may see something different.  But right at the moment there's a Mazda 3 at the top and a Hyundai Elantra at the bottom of my screen!

Welcome to the new internet, where the advertiser robots know you're coming!

Anyway, sorry to go off the topic.  I think the subject of watching fuel consumption is of interest to many on this forum.  Thanks for posting the info, yeshuaiaism.

I bought an Acura Integra years ago, and drove it across the country, watching fuel mileage as I went.  It was interesting to watch how big the effect of altitude had on consumption.  Starting near sea level I got 7 liters per 100 km, but by the time I got to Calgary it was well above 8.  In winter it would sometimes take 9 liters per 100 km.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, regulated by Xantrex C40, DIY 8ft diameter wind turbine, regulated by Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024

Bruce S

  • Global Moderator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 4339
  • Country: us
  • USA
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2012, 06:57:43 AM »
Gizmo;
 I agree there is a place for electric. Our daughter's is a e-scooter running 48V 550watt and can get up to about 32mph and because of the battery pack I built specifically for it out of recycled NiCds; can go about 35 miles before it runs low.
Had the batteries not been free they would've been hard to pay for, whereas a 4-stroker of the same cost would get ~100m/gal.
The Botanical Gardens where she volunteered at loved showing it off and would even let her plug in to recharge.
They got tons of fan email about it and now have recharge stations of the electric vehicles :-) for a slight fee :-).

Zap; Nice use of the hypermiler tricks:).
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

REdiculous

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2012, 09:13:28 AM »
A Leaf would basically double our electric bill. Our problem is that we'd need to charge it every day. That'd be about $1000 worth of electricity every year, not $2000 over the life of the car. Besides, if it pushed us into the next tier, our base rate would go up.

The Leaf would be worth it to me if it was $20-26k and had a detachable genset. Our problem is that we need a car, not a "car". If you can only do 65mph for 1 hour before you're out of juice...for $34k...I'd get almost anything else.
☣☠☢

dnix71

  • SuperHero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2161
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2012, 06:43:29 PM »
I've been looking at the Yaris, too. My 1995 Ford Aerostar gets about 15 mpg around town and 24 on the highway. The mileage sux around town because it won't drop into overdrive until it gets up to about 55 mph.

Gas here in south Florida is back down to about $3.85, too, from $3.99 a few weeks ago. I would love to have an electric car, but on what I make it that will probably never happen, so I only drive to work and back and stop along the way for groceries and other needs. 20 mile/day 5 days a week.

The Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris are about the same size and same base price. A Nissan Leaf for almost double that ($27,000 base) makes no $en$e.

vtpeaknik

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
  • Country: us
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2012, 06:53:24 PM »
The Toyota "Echo" is really a Yaris with a different shape box, they used to sell it in the USA in the past.  If you can find a used one it's a good little car.  I've had one for 7 years now, it's been trouble-free and gets MPG anywhere from low 30's (around town in winter) to low 40's (highway).  And that's with an automatic transmission - couldn't find a used one with manual shift at the time.  When I was shopping for a car then, I compared with the other small cars on the market and none were as good.  E.g., the Honda Fit look as small, but uses somewhat more fuel.  Others were less reliable.

More recently I also bought a 10-year-old Prius.  That's a gamble, since nobody knows how long the battery will last.  But meanwhile I'm getting from 37 to 52 MPG on that, and it cost < $7000.  Great for stop-and-go traffic.  Not much better than the Echo / Yaris on the highway.  I would never had bought it new, due to the "math" of this thread.

Simen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 412
  • Country: no
  • Grimstad, Norway
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2012, 10:47:24 AM »
I figure this is an 'US' thread but...

Here in Norway, we pay in excess of $10/Gal. for gasoline, but only $0.10/kWh for electricity. Wouldn't that change your 'math'? ;D
I will accept the rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. - (R. A. Heinlein)

dnix71

  • SuperHero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2161
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2012, 08:33:21 PM »
Simen the math wouldn't change much even at $10/gallon gas. The base price difference is still $19k. I use about 1.5 gallons of gas a day including weekends. It would take about 3.5 years to recover the difference even if electricity was free. At 10 cents/kwh the electricity would cost about 45 cents a day.

Comprehensive insurance is based on vehicle value so the Leaf will also cost more each year to insure.

I couldn't use the Leaf as my only vehicle, either, because it won't go far from home. At least a hybrid could be taken anywhere the road leads. My sister and parents live about 250 miles away in the same state. Can't do that with a Leaf.

I can bicycle almost anywhere I have to go locally or take the bus. To spend a year's wages on a new car makes no sense to me.

REdiculous

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2012, 03:14:06 PM »
Quote
My sister and parents live about 250 miles away in the same state. Can't do that with a Leaf.

Sure you can, you just have to start with a full charge and charge it another 2-4 times along the way.  If it only takes 2 hours to get a full charge, that's barely a 4-8 hour lay-over, assuming you can find a fast charger where and when you need it.

What's wrong with that?..too optimistic? lol
☣☠☢

oztules

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1463
  • Country: aq
  • Village idiot
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2012, 04:14:43 PM »
While fuel is cheaper than bottled water......whats to say?

Fuel here is $2.00/litre, and power is $0.25/kwh.

Can't buy bottled water for less than $2.00/l, (we have the cleanest water in the world apparently  here.... so who wants bottled anyway), and can't make power for $0.25 reliably either.

Life is not so bad.



..........oztules
Flinders Island Australia

DanB

  • Administrator
  • SuperHero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2155
  • Country: us
    • otherpower.com
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2012, 11:37:22 PM »
Hmmm... what about a 50 year old $300 Volvo 122 that only gets 22-27mph, but came with enough parts to fix it for a while? 
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

SparWeb

  • SuperHero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3105
  • Country: ca
    • Wind Turbine Project Field Notes
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2012, 10:15:09 AM »
I have some numbers to add:  I was in Europe a couple of weeks ago, and when I rented a car in Switzerland, it happened to be a Yaris.  Manual transmission.
I didn't watch my fuel very carefully, and driving Swiss Alps is quite a vertical experience.  My estimated altitude change was from 500m to 1500m altitude, up and back down, twisty turny roads half the way.  The other half was highway, driving about 100-130 kph (lots of Bimmers zooming past).  Under these conditions, I used 3/4 of the tank (roughly) to drive 453 km.  The tank is 42L, so I calculate 7 liters of fuel for every 100 km driven  (34 mpg).  Very approximate result, of course, because fuel gauges are not very accurate.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, regulated by Xantrex C40, DIY 8ft diameter wind turbine, regulated by Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024

Frank S

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1622
  • Country: us
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2012, 05:01:05 PM »
 in 89 my oldest daughter bought new GEO metro 3 cyl 1 ltr 5 sp w/AC, paid $5875.00 cash out the door she drove it to college & back every day for 18 mo. till she graduated and averaged 58 mpg over the 70,000 miles , the throw out bearing clutch release started leaking the GM house told her $1,800.00 to repair so she had it cleaned & detailed then traded it for a new max loaded Sentra with trade the out the door cash difference was $5,000.00 I figured she got a bout $ 4 K for the GEO. She now has come kind of Toyota I think because I haven't heard from her in 3 or 4 years
 FOr my money if  I were living in Europe it would have to be whatever that little V W is with the diesel , last year while on holiday in Spain I dove the diesel for2 weeks then the petrol version for 2 weeks, hands down the diesel is the better car and 30% better fuel economy. Currently there is not a hybrid on the planet I would ever even rent let alone own as of right now, maybe there will be in 10 or 15 years that  I would consider
  But I might think about a Tesla if someone ever learns how to make batteries.   
I live so far outside of the box, when I die they will stretch my carcass over the coffin

jlt

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 368
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2012, 07:11:19 AM »
I drive about 90000 mi per year. As my job as an oversize load escort. My current vehicle is a chev uplander   that averages 23 mpg. and has 350000 miles on it.

  I bought a VW 2 liter tdi that I will be using  next. It has averaged about 39 mpg. No I don't drive slow. If I drive about 65mph it will average 50 mpg.

   I got one with the 6 speed automatic stick shift.The stick shift would do better but not as convenient.
        This will keep up with them beemers If you need to . 
                                                     JLT

zap

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
  • There's an app for that
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2012, 07:48:11 AM »

ghurd

  • Global Moderator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 8076
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2012, 11:07:33 PM »
I recently got a Prius.
My downgraded primary occupation in recent times involes all city driving.

Prius does better when the motor and battery are "warmed up", though unfortunately for me, they usually are not.
The sweet spot seems to be about 45MPH, with maybe 62MPG driving like a conservative normal human.
Extra super conservative driving in the city will do over 70MPG (PITA, and people would tent to become 'unfriendly' if I drove that way).

My math at the time, based on sticker MPG and US$3.75/G, and 100K miles on 25% highway, showed the savings in gas would pay for 1/3rd of the car, compared to a 'similar' Corrolla.

Pretty sure my driving habits will more make up for the shortfall in the reduced fuel prices.

Plus I just like it better.  It is big on the inside. Leather, backup camera, smart key, lots of glove compartments (some with power ports), aux jack for the awsome stereo in one of the 'glove compartments', seating system allows for some LARGE loads, etc, etc, etc.

For me, it ended up cheaper and much better.
G-
www.ghurd.info<<<-----Information on my Controller

taylorp035

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1007
  • Country: us
  • Stressed spelled backwards is Desserts
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2012, 11:02:50 AM »
I was surprised too with how much space is in a Prius, especially legroom in the front and back.  I wish people would calculate the payoff period for their fuel savings over 100k miles or the life of the car instead of 3-5 years... plus, the prius will hold it's value well for when you decide to sell it.

I've been playing with my driving style while driving to work (21-28 miles round trip, depending on route).  I drive a 97 Jeep Grand Cheerokee Limited with the I-6 4.0L engine.  Under normal  driving, I was getting 18 mpg.  If I keep the speed down and apply the best of my ability to wring out every mpg, I can get 22 mpg.  The lifetime average is about 15.5 mpg, but 95% of it's trips are 5 miles with a 200 foot elevation change in between and lots of stop lights.  Then the fun part is driving the bmw 740 with the 4.4L V8 (800 lbs heavier than the Jeep...) and I can get 25-26 mpg on the same trip on premium gas.

SparWeb

  • SuperHero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3105
  • Country: ca
    • Wind Turbine Project Field Notes
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2012, 01:37:25 PM »
...Then the fun part is driving the bmw 740 with the 4.4L V8 (800 lbs heavier than the Jeep...) and I can get 25-26 mpg on the same trip on premium gas.

Funny how that happens when comparing very different vehicles.  I've watched fuel economy on my many vehicles for years, and the results are hard to believe.  I still get the same mileage from my 1991 Acura Legend, with its 3.2L V6, than I could from a 2004 Golf hatchback.  Nobody believes me when I tell them this, but I kept the fuel receipts for a year to prove it.  The Golf seemed "optimized" (if you could call it optimization) for California cities.  Here in Calgary, at 3500 feet elevation and long straight highways, I was so far outside the design "box" that the Golf's fuel economy was never better than 30 mpg.  I give the credit to the more advanced computer controlling the fuel injection and timing in the Legend, despite its age, and operating in safe mode now, is still way better than the CHEAP computer in the 13-year younger Golf.  The advantage is especially obvious in winter - a very important non-californian weather condition that makes all manufacturer fuel economy claims in Canada outright LIES.

This is all a sore point for me because I'm actually trying to find a good replacement car for the old Legend, however everything I try is either too big or too small.  There is a long list of cars I cannot fit in comfortably (I'm too tall) which eliminates an awful lot of economical cars (be they efficient due to size or due to luxury/performance efforts).
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, regulated by Xantrex C40, DIY 8ft diameter wind turbine, regulated by Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024

wdyasq

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1324
Re: Some simple math on a Toyota Yaris
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2012, 07:05:24 PM »
Quote
My sister and parents live about 250 miles away in the same state. Can't do that with a Leaf.

Sure you can, you just have to start with a full charge and charge it another 2-4 times along the way.  If it only takes 2 hours to get a full charge, that's barely a 4-8 hour lay-over, assuming you can find a fast charger where and when you need it.

What's wrong with that?..too optimistic? lol

Where are you going to find that fast charger? I talked with a Nissan rep and he said the design hadn't been finalized. Although there is ONE I know of in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metromess. I understand the EV charging infrastructure is in its' infancy but, it will be years before one can take a 300 mile trip and not take a day doing it.

Level 1 charging - from a 110V source takes ~18 hours. Level 2 has two 'powers' - one takes ~8 hours and the faster one about 4 hours. This is for a 100% battery charge.

I recently have started 'doing the math' to figure out what vehicle is going to be cheapest to drive. I drive ~30k miles a year.

Candidates that look promising are the Toyota Corolla and Camry, Mazda 3 with 'Skyactive' engine, Volkswagen with TDI, KIA Optima and a few more. I'll pay more for a VW TDI because I am a diesel fan. Mazda MAY be importing a diesel next year.

Cost will include purchase, fuel, oil changes, tires, major services and such. As I tend to drive things over 300,000 miles, 'trade in' recovery of investment is not considered.

Ron
"I like the Honey, but kill the bees"