Author Topic: Steam Engine!!!  (Read 16053 times)

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JW

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Steam Engine!!!
« on: April 22, 2012, 01:55:25 PM »
I have been working on steam engines as a hobby since I was first ASE Certified as a Master Automobile Techician at age 20, 18 years ago, the video im going to display is like a 12th generation unit, and has finalized the design of the 'APEX' prototype flashsteam engine,

 in order to get this far, I had to develope and patent a 'varible lift direct injection valve as I have patent numbers of- US 6,928,992  7,552,715

The Injection Valve is used to run and throttle the engine. The injector handles 2400psi [dont try this at home]

ACB R&D 2004


The 4cycle steam engine(my development) is open source, also there is a forum there http://www.flashsteam.com/flashsteam_forum/index.php

The latest design uses superheated steam aspired into an insulated cylinder and head, the 4cycle engine uses direct water injection, that is injected/flashed/released into the compressed superheated mass of steam compressed in the cylinder.

This is anticipated to be the most safe/user friendly application on the modern steam engine design. Since the engine block is used as both expander and boiler. Of the $250,000.00 invested it should be possible to make a working prototype, as always the team that makes the working model can boast open source development. (meaning of the 250,000 development spent, all data learned is shared currently)


Main website here- http://www.flashsteam.com

Ive been a user here on the FL forum for a long time and figure you guys know ive been at this steam stuff awhile and could use some new users on my forum, but again, there isnt really much going on with steam... I have personally funded all development, and there are no sponsors or investors...


-edit- (everyone can edit there posts for 4 hours after making any post)
Just incase you wanted to know how good the burner looking thing works-






-

« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 02:42:11 PM by JW »

DanB

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2012, 09:29:33 AM »
Do you have some notion about the efficiency of the system?  I've tried to get my head around that with my generators.  My 'listeroid' is around 20% from fuel to electricity, my antique steam engine is generally between 2-4% depending on outside temperature and the 'mood' of the operator.
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2012, 10:25:59 AM »
Hi Dan,

At this point actual efficiency from fuel burned to output in watts is unknown. Im hoping to get this evaluated with the next working prototype. A WAG at this point is someplace approching 30% total system. The aspect of this thats most interesting to me is expander eff. because it could be a major leap for steam engines.

Here's a quote from another fellow who has vistied with me and I have visited, he is very active in the steam engine community.
http://kimmelsteam.com

Quote
Steam power is intrinsically inefficient because of the loss of heat used to boil water, to affect the phase change, because of the high latent heat of vaporization. When steam is condensed back into water, something necessary to do so it can be pumped back into the boiler to keep the process going, all of the latent heat of vaporization is lost. This is why there is a low thermodynamic efficiency intrinsic to a steam cycle. Needless to say many people have devoted much time to getting around basic laws of thermodynamics. It is not easy to do and a book can be written about the attempts. Davoud and Tinker and Jeremy Holmes have worked on re-using steam without condensing it.

The 4 cycle steam engine recompresses some of its exhaust steam, the only other engine design that does this is a Uniflow (Williams engine) however only a percentage of the exhaust stroke (usually no higher than 1/3rd) is compressed.

Intitally the goal was to make a working flashsteam engine, so that steam thats compressed contains the surplus of heat needed to flash injected water. The compressed steam is superheated before it re-enters the engine. Most conventional engine designs for steam engines are a 2 stroke configuration whereas this is not possible, the exeption being the uniflow which does this on its exaust stroke.

The other advantage to the 4 cycle steam engine is boiler control, since it uses a monotube type of arrangment basically a superheater. Traditionally the use of monotube boiler's is difficult.

Ken Helmick

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2012, 05:47:58 AM »
Besides the losses due to latent heat of vaporization, there is another factor to consider, by their nature external combustion engines just tend to be less efficient.   This efficiency disadvantage has nothing to do with thermodynamic cycles and everything to do with plain old mechanics.  External combustion, by definition, means the heat must flow through a wall of some material to reach the working fluid, thereby limiting  peak working fluid temperature to something a bit less than the hottest temperature the wall can tolerate.  IC engines can create temperatures well in excess of what the wall can tolerate just so long as the wall is cooled enough to prevent damage. Thus, the best steam or Stirling engine may have working fluid temperatures as high as 1200 F if the very best and most costly materials are used whereas an IC engine may run double that figure with a water cooled aluminum cylinder.

The upshot is that a simple EC cycle will probably not compete with a simple IC cycle on the basis of pure efficiency; the designer needs to look for an edge..or three.  Such edges may include thermal recycling, use of lower cost alternate fuels and cogeneration.

Regards,

Ken

GreatBallofFire

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2012, 06:23:01 PM »
Congratulations on getting something built and running, that first step is one that most people never accomplish. On the other hand, just the phrase "superheated steam" makes me nervous. Unless its inside of a megawatt steam turbine, I want to be as far away as possible from anything running on superheated steam.

-Mark
Author of, "Great Ball of Fire! Energy Consumption and Economic Growth"
"Generating Electricity From... A Low Cost Solar Thermal Electricity Design"

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2012, 07:08:41 PM »
Superheated steam does not have to be dangerious, it can exist at 5psi, the key is the energy content... Supercritical steam, is not live/superheated steam, it does not have the btu energy content that superheated steam does have.

With regards to a 4cycle steam expander, the cylinder wall and cyl-head are insufficient to evaporate the remaining 50% flash steam produced from supercritical working fluid...

The compressed superheated steam full stroke volume aids in heat thruput of the preheated injected water.

JW

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2012, 07:15:27 PM »
Gordon Lightfoot - Sundown.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-02VrChRqpc

Everything But The Girl - And I miss You
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C3NlpaCFgI

I can attach the gif animation of the engine cycle without the speed control, perhaps tomorrow.


jw
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 07:25:01 PM by JW »

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2012, 11:47:26 AM »
When I first started to work with the engine cycle, it was intended to be a flash steam engine. There are are all sorts of problems with regards to making a flash steam engine run.

Most who attempt this intend inject superheated water under very high pressure such as 3000psi. When this is done in actual practice its discovered that in a best case scenario 50% of that injected water will expand into steam. So the engine has problems running.

Some have got decent results by heating the cylinder head aswell. With the 4 cycle concept there is an intake and compression stroke, the engine can aspire live steam and use this additional heat source to reduce heating requirements for the injected water. If the steam thats aspired under low pressure is superheated the engine is easier to make run. And the requirement of using supercritical injected water is reduced.


Badger

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2012, 12:00:21 PM »


The 4 cycle steam engine recompresses some of its exhaust steam, the only other engine design that does this is a Uniflow (Williams engine) however only a percentage of the exhaust stroke (usually no higher than 1/3rd) is compressed.


Are you speaking of Williams turbine engine?  What about a Wankel engine?  Less rpm's to wear parts, but still a continuous flow...   Just curious if you've had experience with those.

wcb

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2012, 05:47:01 PM »
On the other hand, just the phrase "superheated steam" makes me nervous. Unless its inside of a megawatt steam turbine, I want to be as far away as possible from anything running on superheated steam.

Is superheated steam so very different from "superheated" antifreeze in our cars?  15psi, ~260 degrees right?  It will burn the heck out of you, but its not really so exotic or dangerous. 

back to topic, very cool engine!  dont have time to really look over your info now but its on my bedside table so to speak  :)


GreatBallofFire

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2012, 06:15:09 PM »
On the other hand, just the phrase "superheated steam" makes me nervous. Unless its inside of a megawatt steam turbine, I want to be as far away as possible from anything running on superheated steam.

Is superheated steam so very different from "superheated" antifreeze in our cars?  15psi, ~260 degrees right?  It will burn the heck out of you, but its not really so exotic or dangerous. 

back to topic, very cool engine!  dont have time to really look over your info now but its on my bedside table so to speak  :)

Actually, there is a very big difference between antifreeze that is 15 psi and over 200 degrees and superheated steam since the system in the car is very unlikely to have a catastrophic failure compared to most boilers. There is a reason that boilers were banned in a lot of areas and it was because of the potential high risk of rapid expansion from a catastrophic failure. Look at the cooling system of a car, if it starts to overheat and the pressure builds up, the cap opens and a small amount of liquid instantly vaporizes and takes some excess heat with it. This can continue until the system runs dry and the motor finally quits or dies. Compared that to a boiler with "superheated steam" and see if the same results happens, maybe or maybe not. I'll take the antifreeze everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

But, let's get back to the great work that the original poster has shown us instead of discussing what doesn't really matter in the first place.

-Mark
Author of, "Great Ball of Fire! Energy Consumption and Economic Growth"
"Generating Electricity From... A Low Cost Solar Thermal Electricity Design"

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2012, 07:29:06 PM »
Quote from: GreatBallofFire
But, let's get back to the great work that the original poster has shown us instead of discussing what doesn't really matter in the first place. -MarK

This is probably the best source on the topic

http://www.flashsteam.com/steam_proj3.htm

Check out the animation and let me know.


JW

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2012, 01:46:13 PM »
This is an ongoing project to beat the Land Speed Record for a steam powered vehicle, Steam Speed America


The current record is held by "INSPIRATION"

http://www.steamcar.co.uk


I know Chuk and wish him good luck taking the new world record.
 http://www.steamspeedamerica.com

JW

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2013, 12:08:58 PM »
here's an update on Chuk W.








Best JW
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 12:24:16 PM by JW »

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2015, 04:42:33 PM »
Well this year at the Bonneville salt track, Chuk wrecked out at around 160mph. The accident was very sevier although Chuk made it out with minor injuries. The stream liner is totaled.

Here is a picture of my latest work on my stationary steam engine. Im doing some tweeks and well see where it leads :)
8709-0 

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2015, 07:19:35 PM »
Im being solicited by a Chinese company to make my injector valves...

Im considering it, so my valves will be made in china.

At this time its up in the air, I have not committed to manufacture in china.

I could get the injectors built from a company that's US based but in a small orders. Its part of the problem as the Chinese would be good for large batches.

 L912 injector  Manufacture is doing an excellent job, witch will get the injectors to help others describe.

L912 injector test1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2TJQSOHgx8

 
« Last Edit: December 05, 2015, 07:34:02 PM by JW »

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2015, 07:18:02 PM »
« Last Edit: December 05, 2015, 07:34:18 PM by JW »

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2017, 05:57:27 PM »
Everything with the Chinese manufacture worked out good I now have enough parts to make 100 injectors. I had to pay a import tax which was about $1,000.


Im on one of my older computers and have access to some old photos but this is a recent picture of me.

 
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 07:46:52 PM by JW »

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2017, 06:19:57 PM »
Im getting close to having the next phase complete


JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2017, 07:27:08 PM »
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 07:46:40 PM by JW »

Mary B

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2017, 06:53:20 PM »
Corn burns hot but watch out for the nitric acid it produces...

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2017, 07:10:22 PM »
 I use a stainless steel screen that is a consumable on the corn burner stage. I works well as a catalyst.     

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2017, 08:00:44 PM »
I have really got the solid fuel burner working good here

Jeremys Cornburner.mp4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKDSX3lMasw

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2017, 12:58:44 PM »
test


In the video of my last post  I have good performance of the burner.  But im using shop air so its not a mobile app.

The performance using a 12 volt blower is not the same.

I need some help finding a high performance 12 volt blower. Im using a 12 volt vacuum made by dewalt.

Im open to any suggestions I will edit this post as I get more details
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 01:06:58 PM by JW »

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2017, 01:42:02 PM »
In these pictures two 12 volt vacuum are used. The Dewalt is rated for 20 volt the other is only 12 volt. I hooked it up using 24 volts and it ran for about 30 seconds and burned up. Im hoping to use a RC motor but it has to be rated to 12 volts.

I will do a burn test with the dewalt running 24 volts just to see what happens later this evening. 

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2017, 09:17:25 PM »

I was able to get the Dewalt blower running at 24 volts. Amazingly the motor did not burn up and I
got good results with the increase impeller speed.