Author Topic: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.  (Read 166630 times)

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Frank S

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2012, 07:18:10 AM »
here is where you can get kaowool or its replacement
http://www.anvilfire.com/sales/pages/kaowool_index.htm
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fabricator

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2012, 11:23:08 AM »
Oh I have a whole roll of fiberfrax/kaowol, just didn't know he had a forge.
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Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2012, 12:38:48 PM »
Chris said I need two 35 amp block diodes to build a rectifier...

I found a 80 Amp 3-Phase Bridge Rectifier for $17 on amazon and bought it for $25 with shipping.
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Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2012, 12:42:33 PM »
Chris said i could buy a switch at any Lowes hardware
that I can use as a brake switch for my turbine... for around $12...

Any idea what he is talking about?
Can someone post a picture or a discription, so I can go buy one today...  ???
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ChrisOlson

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2012, 01:30:55 PM »
Chris said i could buy a switch at any Lowes hardware
that I can use as a brake switch for my turbine... for around $12...

I use these two-pole AC outdoor disconnects for small turbines.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=202106488&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=202106488&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D27X-_-202106488

You run one generator leg to each of the two load terminals and one leg to one of the supply ones.  Then put in a jumper between the two supply ones.  When the disconnect is off the turbine runs.  When the disconnect is on all three legs of the generator are shorted together and it stops.

The lugs inside will usually handle #8 wire.  You run the generator legs right into the switch, and continue on from the lugs in the switch with some more wires to the rectifier (the wires to the rectifier go in the same lugs as the generator leads).
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ChrisOlson

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2012, 01:43:12 PM »
I found a 80 Amp 3-Phase Bridge Rectifier for $17 on amazon and bought it for $25 with shipping.

That rectifier will work fine.  Ain't seen too many of them three-phase ones like that.  It's doubtful that those little blades for the DC output can handle 80 amps for very long, but it will work fine on your turbine.
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Chris

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2012, 02:13:34 PM »
If your nervous about it not being big enough you can use two in parallel also.
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11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2012, 03:39:45 PM »
Chris said i could buy a switch at any Lowes hardware
that I can use as a brake switch for my turbine... for around $12...

I use these two-pole AC outdoor disconnects for small turbines.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=202106488&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=202106488&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D27X-_-202106488

You run one generator leg to each of the two load terminals and one leg to one of the supply ones.  Then put in a jumper between the two supply ones.  When the disconnect is off the turbine runs.  When the disconnect is on all three legs of the generator are shorted together and it stops.

The lugs inside will usually handle #8 wire.  You run the generator legs right into the switch, and continue on from the lugs in the switch with some more wires to the rectifier (the wires to the rectifier go in the same lugs as the generator leads).
--
Chris
Is there any switch out there that is not so BIG!  :o
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midwoud1

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2012, 04:21:24 PM »
Steadfast.

Schematic diagram stopswitch .

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ChrisOlson

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2012, 04:59:26 PM »
Is there any switch out there that is not so BIG!  :o

You think that's big, you should see the shorting switches on my 3.5 and 4.0 meter machines.  It's not unusual for even a little turbine to put out a 200 amp surge when you short it running at full tilt.  That will usually weld the contacts in a light duty switch.
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just-doug

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2012, 05:32:35 PM »
i think i see a problem with your wiring plan.it looks like you are using a pipe cap as a thrust bearing with no hole in the center of the cap.the hole appears to be drilled in the threaded partion below.if you run the wiring in below the cap and then down the tower, the tower is going to cut your wires.better to drill the cap and come down the tower that way

fabricator

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2012, 05:46:36 PM »
i think i see a problem with your wiring plan.it looks like you are using a pipe cap as a thrust bearing with no hole in the center of the cap.the hole appears to be drilled in the threaded partion below.if you run the wiring in below the cap and then down the tower, the tower is going to cut your wires.better to drill the cap and come down the tower that way

Nice catch, the best way would be to thread cord clamp in the cap to keep the wire from chafing in the hole.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

fabricator

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2012, 05:47:22 PM »
Chris said i could buy a switch at any Lowes hardware
that I can use as a brake switch for my turbine... for around $12...

I use these two-pole AC outdoor disconnects for small turbines.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=202106488&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=202106488&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D27X-_-202106488

You run one generator leg to each of the two load terminals and one leg to one of the supply ones.  Then put in a jumper between the two supply ones.  When the disconnect is off the turbine runs.  When the disconnect is on all three legs of the generator are shorted together and it stops.

The lugs inside will usually handle #8 wire.  You run the generator legs right into the switch, and continue on from the lugs in the switch with some more wires to the rectifier (the wires to the rectifier go in the same lugs as the generator leads).
--
Chris
Is there any switch out there that is not so BIG!  :o
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2012, 06:33:34 PM »
I bought the switch...$15  :D
Tell me if I picked up the right one...


I have the nonfuseible:
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 06:40:08 PM by Steadfast »
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Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2012, 06:44:36 PM »
i think i see a problem with your wiring plan.it looks like you are using a pipe cap as a thrust bearing with no hole in the center of the cap.the hole appears to be drilled in the threaded partion below.if you run the wiring in below the cap and then down the tower, the tower is going to cut your wires.better to drill the cap and come down the tower that way

Nice catch, the best way would be to thread cord clamp in the cap to keep the wire from chafing in the hole.
We have not drilled the big hole in the top of the cap yet...
Look at the other string...We are copying that pivot...

When my stupid PMA shows up I will get a "Slip Ring" with it,
which I plan to install near th top of the pivot spindle at the top of my mast.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 06:52:57 PM by Steadfast »
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fabricator

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2012, 07:12:18 PM »
I bought the switch...$15  :D
Tell me if I picked up the right one...


I have the nonfuseible:


Yep, you bought the wrong one, the thing Chris is talking about is typically used as a disconnect on the outside of the building as a disconnect, it's a simple knife switch, pull it out and plug it in one way and it's off, turn it upside down and plug it in and it's on. I'll try to find a better pic.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

fabricator

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2012, 07:14:40 PM »
i think i see a problem with your wiring plan.it looks like you are using a pipe cap as a thrust bearing with no hole in the center of the cap.the hole appears to be drilled in the threaded partion below.if you run the wiring in below the cap and then down the tower, the tower is going to cut your wires.better to drill the cap and come down the tower that way

Nice catch, the best way would be to thread cord clamp in the cap to keep the wire from chafing in the hole.
We have not drilled the big hole in the top of the cap yet...
Look at the other string...We are copying that pivot...

When my stupid PMA shows up I will get a "Slip Ring" with it,
which I plan to install near th top of the pivot spindle at the top of my mast.

If you use slip rings on that redelco you are almost sure to be very unhappy, slip rings are very problematic and prone to all kinds of failures.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

fabricator

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I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

birdhouse

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #51 on: June 04, 2012, 08:58:42 PM »
i prefer this type:
http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Breakers-Distribution-Load-Centers-Disconnects/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbm0h/R-202978654/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051

a little more spendy, but it has an actual handle to throw.  the type fab linked to has this odd plastic piece that has to be removed, flipped upside down, and re-inserted (after opening box) to make it work. 

i much prefer a handle that can be turned on or off in a second.  fiddling with a chunk of plastic while under your tower in a lightning storm doesn't sound like my cup of tea. 

adam

edit:  don't forget to add a HUGE aluminum heatsink to the back of that rectifier, ideally with a thin layer of heat sink compound, otherwise it may blow at 10 amps...

ChrisOlson

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #52 on: June 04, 2012, 11:05:23 PM »
I think that breaker one that Steadfast got will work fine.  It's got a 60 amp QO breaker in it, and that breaker I'm sure will handle a 200 amp surge for a second without tripping, especially at the low voltage the turbine generator runs at.

For larger turbines I prefer two pole Vacu-Break non-fused boxes rated at 10,000 amp surge RMS symmetrical @ 250 volts, with a continuous rating of at least 200 amps.  Those have a big throw lever on them, which like Adam said, is preferred because if I'm not around and my wife needs to shut turbines down before the tornado hits, she knows how to throw those big red handles to stop the turbines.

For giggles once I measured the surge amps with my Fluke on one leg of a 3.8 meter machine running balls out when you throw that Big Red Handle, and the Fluke said 480 amps.  Someplace once, I seen some outfit selling "shorting switches" for wind turbines and it was merely a toggle switch mounted in a box.  When I seen that I'm like, "that's either for a really little turbine like an Air-X, or these people don't have a clue....."
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birdhouse

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #53 on: June 05, 2012, 12:14:42 AM »
yea, that 60A qu breaker will probably work fine.  worst case, you throw it once, trips, hold it on, and good. 

you could always buy a bigger breaker...

adam


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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2012, 09:13:21 AM »

 "that's either for a really little turbine like an Air-X, or these people don't have a clue....."
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Chris

Or a redelco. LOL
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

Bruce S

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2012, 09:29:37 AM »
I'm no where near the level ChrisO has on these gems.

BUT on disconnects, I'm thinking one similar in use for outside A/C unit that has the big ole lever would work just fine.
I've set these type up for people using Solar as power for their sheds.
I believe them to be safe enough due to the break in between up for power on and switch down for shorting for your 'mill, which is full disconnect for solar, we're not allowed anything bigger than Lawn-art here in the city :-(
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Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2012, 04:12:04 PM »
I just spoke to Tony at Hurricane...   ;D

He told me my modified experimental PMA will be in the mail tomorrow with a Friday delivery.

However, First come first served:  :o
If Tony's PMA does not make it by Friday night, we will press forward with work on flying the HBird...  (Front hub construction, blade mounting, tower reinforcement, 80 amp 3 phase rectifier installation, weather tracker on mast for wind speed, bike computer for RPM, stop switch)

and MAYBE, just Maybe we will be able to fly the HBird by Sunday night....   ;D
Bumping the LBird's data gathering out of the game for over a month while we gather data info on the HBird instead.  8)
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 04:24:50 PM by Steadfast »
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Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #57 on: June 06, 2012, 08:23:47 AM »
I was thinking about adding a nose cone to my HBird turbine.

Right now, it will have a 10 inch flat wood front hub...
(Sort of like putting a bar stool, seat first, in the air)

According to the thread on here about nose cones,
having one may not help output efficiency much...
but
Would it help reduce horizontal thrust? ???
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ChrisOlson

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #58 on: June 06, 2012, 11:18:26 AM »
The horizontal thrust component is a function of how much kinetic energy is extracted from the wind flowing thru the rotor's swept area and converted to mechanical power.  A nose cone has no effect on it.

A nose cone may very slightly reduce the drag coefficient of the flat hub area when the turbine is facing the wind.  However, it will be so slight that it is probably not measurable except with very sophisticated equipment.

The nose cone is purely cosmetic, for the most part.
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Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #59 on: June 06, 2012, 12:17:49 PM »
GOOD TO KNOW.....   ;D
1 less step to worry about...

Thanks!
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fabricator

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #60 on: June 06, 2012, 02:14:36 PM »
They sell nose cones of all shapes and sizes in the pots and pans section at wallmart.
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11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

Bruce S

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #61 on: June 06, 2012, 02:23:17 PM »
They do look right purrty when painted just right  ;D
I like the one painted with spirals  ;)
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Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #62 on: June 08, 2012, 03:47:16 PM »
I spoke to Tony at Huricane to ask if I was going to find my PMA at the house today.
He said he will mail it to me on monday... >:(

He says that last week he was just days from being able to build the final PMA.
That he did no want to send me a "Stand in" PMA when he was so close to finishing it.
Now that he has the parts all in, he is building the final product now.  :-\

So, as promised, the Father in Law and I are going to bust our tails to get the HBird flying instead.
Assuming the regulator shows up in the mail and we can get all the work on the front hub and the tower done and the HBird up and running this weekend, it looks like Tony's PMA is going to have to wait a month before recieving his performance data.

The new photos will be coming!
Hopefully, a video of it spinning by Sunday evening.
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ChrisOlson

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #63 on: June 08, 2012, 06:32:56 PM »
I spoke to Tony at Huricane to ask if I was going to find my PMA at the house today.
He said he will mail it to me on monday... >:(

And how long has this guy had your money now?  And you knew what you ordered, right?  And now it's just a "standin" and he's only "days from building the final product"?

C'mon man.  Sooner or later you have to throw in the towel and call it.  The guy is running a scam.  Except this time he made the mistake of messing with a dude who happened to know some dudes who know what's going on.  And being he knows he's got his ass kicked big time he keeps coming up with excuses until he can figure a way to wiggle his out of this jam that is now published on a public forum.

I love it when a plan comes together, baby.    ;D
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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #64 on: June 08, 2012, 06:59:09 PM »
That poor scammer, summich really stepped on his wee wee, and he just don't see a way out, next thing you know he will call you and tell you his dog, knocked over a can of thinner which the pilot light from the water heater ignited and burned the entire "factory" and all it's contents to the ground. LMAO.
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birdhouse

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #65 on: June 08, 2012, 08:15:17 PM »
that's a bummer steadfast. 

i really truly think tony is scared to send you the delco.  sure he knows enough to build a PMA that produces electricity, but i think he is very lacking in being able to produce a unit with correct cut in rpms for a given blade set, and produce a proportionate amount of power for that blade set. 

now that he's in the public eye, and knows it, he doesn't want to look a fool.  the BIG problem he's trying to over come is trying to pull 4-500 watts from a delco with a 6-7' blade diameter.  i just don't see how you can cram enough wire and magnets into a delco to get that performance. 

either way, it will be good to see the results once a month goes by. 

have you directly asked tony if the unit is returnable after a month of flying with poor results?  just something i'd be worried about!

adam