Author Topic: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?  (Read 19265 times)

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Steadfast

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EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« on: March 26, 2013, 01:26:08 PM »
Here is a fun question!  :o

In the case of a nuclear EMP, I was wondering if solar panels would need a faraday cage to survive?

If the Need of a faraday cage, for solar panel EMP survival, is valid;
Do effective faraday cags need to be made of solid metal sheets or
could I use carpenters coth to make a cage which would allow my panels to remain in use and also protected?

If this "carpenters coth/wire mesh" solution is valid, what screen width is no longer dense enough to Faraday protect a Solar Panel from a Nuclear EMP?  (as defined by this sight)
http://www.hillsidewirecloth.com/definition.html
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 01:32:01 PM by Steadfast »
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DamonHD

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2013, 01:31:31 PM »
Protecting PV is likely to be the very last of your problems with EMP: your control electronics and everything else downstream would be toast, and any screening mesh has an actual immediate and continuings reduction in your PV performance when the only nuke radiation is coming from the Sun.

Rgds

Damon

Steadfast

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2013, 01:37:53 PM »
Thatís is exactly  my point...

could a mesh as wide as say.... grounded chicken coop wire make an effective faraday cage?
Used at an ecceptible loss of 1%-2% solar grabbing efficiancy.
or would the panel need a much denser screen weave to be EMP immune, leaving it usefully ineffective?

And also,
Precisely because PV effectively runs off of solar radiation are the panels immune to an EMP, and thus would Solar Panels survive un-protected?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 01:48:32 PM by Steadfast »
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Steadfast

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2013, 01:42:07 PM »
If the only item at risk is some wire and the solar controller,  one could always store extra Solar controllers in the same faraday cage as they would any emergency radios.

This fun question Has been asked of me by several preppers in my area...
My answer has always been to assume the panel would be fried.
or am I wrong?  I certanly hope so...
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Steadfast

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2013, 01:54:52 PM »
I guess the best way to answer this is to ask
"What happen to solar panels when they get struck by lighting?"

I just found this answer:
http://www.ribencha.com/can-solar-panels-survive-being-struck-by-lightning-7417/
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 01:58:53 PM by Steadfast »
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joestue

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2013, 02:01:53 PM »
protecting against lightning is easy compared to the emp from a nuke lol.

i'd recommend throwing everything in a 10 foot steel container. use copper mesh to seal the door shut.

Steadfast

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2013, 03:13:12 PM »
Gee THAT was helpful....  ???

Anyone else have an answer that is not merely a smart assed comment spouted simply to avoid the fact that you simply have no clue. 
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joestue

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2013, 04:10:27 PM »
lol
i do have a clue what i'm talking about.

one of the ways *they* protect electronics against nuke EMP is to include neutron detectors in the electronics, these neutron detectors then activate the protection devices (basically big mosfets) which short out every conductor which leaves the box.
the neutron detectors give you a few microseconds warning..

off the top of my head, the currents and voltages involved are about the same, lighting and nuclear emp (depending on which of the 4 surges you're talking about) but instead of 8/20 micro seconds, they show up 1000 times faster.

burying your electronics 10 feet deep is sufficient, provided there are not electrical connections to the surface.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 04:20:35 PM by joestue »

Steadfast

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2013, 03:41:25 AM »
See.  Now that's an answer.  And a good one too.
But how does it practically apply to my question?
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tanner0441

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2013, 12:59:23 PM »
Hi

It depends on the proximity of the blast, assuming your able to protect your panels does it do you any good if you are turned into a shadow on the nearest wall. I think any form of protection capable of protecting your panels would reduce the output enough to render them as useless any way. Add to that you might get fully charged batteries but where is your uncontaminated food coming from? and the government would most likely move you to "A place of safety".

You could cover the ground with mirrors turn your panels over to collect the reflected light from the mirrors and sheet metal to the backs of the panels, and run all the wiring through metal conduit or trunking.

Back in the fifties we were told in the event of a nuclear attack you put your head between your legs pucker up and kiss your ass goodby.....

Brian.

dbcollen

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2013, 01:59:00 PM »
See.  Now that's an answer.  And a good one too.
But how does it practically apply to my question?


Exactly what answer are you looking for?
 I would say just unwrap your tinfoil hat and put that around your solar panels.   ;)

XeonPony

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2013, 02:20:20 PM »
As another posted said you are flat out sol pretty much other then to store a redundant system underground in a completely shielded metal container.

My thoughs if there was ever a nuke ware there'd be very little to restrict wind flow!

My plans where to have a completed ready to deploy system self contained, in the disaster/war go up, fly the wind turbines, deploy the back up panels (And hope the original ones survived!)

All so stored with the system would be my second container with 2000gallons of water and about 2 or more years dried goods, and a green house kit, and beside those two would be the actual living quarters, 3 40 footers welded together.

So how far over board do you want to go?
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Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

MaryAlana

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2013, 02:29:31 PM »
Emp energy peaks in the 2-3 ghz microwave region, mesh at that size would be very tiny to provide waveguide cutoff frequency.

joestue

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2013, 07:24:03 PM »
I wouldn't say it is impossible. but the mesh needs to be on the order of half inch square grid #20 awg wire, connected to the other side of the cell through each 6 inch cell.. meaning the mesh needs to be inside the solar panel assembly.

MaryAlana

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2013, 07:47:38 PM »
smaller than half inch, that is barely useable at 432mhz, at microwaves that is a huge gap.

Steadfast

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2013, 08:34:21 PM »
I think you're onto something Alana.
I have been reading on other sites that EMP waves are nothing like lightning.
Which could be diverted by a simple grounded mesh cage.
however, any gaps at all will let the EMP microwaves in. 

Therefore are the best "mesh" to ward off an EMP is a solid box made of sheet of metal
And lined inside with a solid nonfarris material!

so much for using the solar panels AND protecting them at the same time.
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XeonPony

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2013, 08:45:57 PM »
Yup steadfast that is indeed the answer, keep a whole system burried in a feraday cage is the only sure shot  way to be fully prepped for that highely unlikely event!
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

Frank S

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2013, 10:12:19 PM »
A lot of things are not completely understood about EMP
http://standeyo.com/News_Files/NBC/EMP.protection.html
I live so far outside of the box, when I die they will stretch my carcass over the coffin

niall2

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2013, 11:03:39 PM »
erm...an emp strike....a nuke ....alien evasion ?...if your pv panels are still working after such events you,ve got a lot more to worry about than low amp output....

mainly.... everybody else will want to get their hands on them ....better load up with some 50 calibre then ...that or old slim whitman records .. :)

i agree things are going to pot though .....these days you never know ...:)
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 11:22:04 PM by niall2 »

joestue

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2013, 11:24:14 PM »
A lot of things are not completely understood about EMP
http://standeyo.com/News_Files/NBC/EMP.protection.html

the russians did a test, the emp "Fused" a telephone line buried 3 feet deep, blew up the gas discharge tubes and generally fried everything.
aluminum foil is not good enough. might work for a cellphone, but its not like you're going to have service after that.

Mary: the wavelength of the emp is on the order of 10 feet. the issues is the dc resistance of the faraday cage.
14 awg steel is sufficient.

MaryAlana

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2013, 11:33:03 PM »
EMP extends up to about 3ghz, at those frequencies wavelength is very small. Voltage does drop off tho but smaller antennas like cell phones will be very susceptible as it sweeps past that antennas resonant point


Frank S

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2013, 12:05:27 AM »
Probably the best thing to know in case of an EMP caused by a nuclear detonation is YOGA that way you might be able to bend over far enough to kiss your butt good-by
I live so far outside of the box, when I die they will stretch my carcass over the coffin

madlabs

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2013, 08:13:16 AM »
Hahaha! Yep, time for yoga lessons...

cdog

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2013, 07:24:14 AM »
They will never nuke us....who would be left to enslave further and keep doing their grunt work?
Ya can't have an empire without slaves!

MaryAlana

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2013, 02:21:47 PM »
EMP leaves the slaves, land, most of the infrastructure

jlsoaz

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2016, 07:35:19 PM »
Here is a fun question!  :o

In the case of a nuclear EMP, I was wondering if solar panels would need a faraday cage to survive?

If the Need of a faraday cage, for solar panel EMP survival, is valid;
Do effective faraday cags need to be made of solid metal sheets or
could I use carpenters coth to make a cage which would allow my panels to remain in use and also protected?

If this "carpenters coth/wire mesh" solution is valid, what screen width is no longer dense enough to Faraday protect a Solar Panel from a Nuclear EMP?  (as defined by this sight)
http://www.hillsidewirecloth.com/definition.html

Hi, three years later, my question is not the same, but it's a bit similar so I thought I'd ask:

In the event of a very bad solar storm (or whatever it is from the sun that would or might cause a severe bad electronics problems in some geographic areas on earth), is there a recommended smart way to protect one's solar, inverters and other equipment?

This gives an idea of the sort of event I am concerned about:
http://www.solarstorms.org/SRefStorms.html

DamonHD

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Re: EMP...Faraday cage on solar panels?
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2016, 04:52:11 AM »
IIRC:

EMP gives kV/m (kilovolts per metre of cabling) induced voltages.

Solar flares give V/km (volts per kilometre) induced voltages.

So several orders of magnitude difference, possibly 6 or more.

Thus I'd have thought that PV wouldn't even notice, but decent bypass and blocking diodes would ensure that any small voltages and currents induced would be likely dissipated safely.

Rgds

Damon