Author Topic: Arduino suitable for cold climate?  (Read 10437 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

SparWeb

  • Global Moderator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5452
  • Country: ca
    • Wind Turbine Project Field Notes
Arduino suitable for cold climate?
« on: November 11, 2013, 09:09:07 PM »
I've been giving thought to ways to build up a datalogging system based on an arduino.  Seen some examples that I like.  Wondering how well these do in the deep cold.  Say, -40C (roughly equal to -40F).  I would be keeping the arduino outside, close to the electronics being monitored.  So far my charge controllers and inverters seem to handle the cold just fine.  But is the Arduino also proven to work in the cold?

Also thinking it would be interesting, maybe even convenient to make a container to put electronics "up top", meaning in a nacelle behind the generator and relaying the data with an Xbee (or something similar and appropriate to arduino) down to a ground receiver.  The details of stable power supply and avoiding contamination are obvious, but there may be surprises unforseen.  Any warnings?

Any experience trying these sorts of things (or knowledge of where to look or to ask, too) would be appreciated.

Thanks!
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

SparWeb

  • Global Moderator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5452
  • Country: ca
    • Wind Turbine Project Field Notes
Re: Arduino suitable for cold climate?
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2013, 10:27:23 PM »
Picking through the datasheet, I can find most components on the board are rated for -40C or below, but then I found that there is an old LM358 op-amp (wow such an old spec on a board otherwise covered in novel things) on the USB power supply line that's only rated for -25C...
But still no solid reports of trouble at low temperatures...
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

madlabs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 686
  • Country: us
Re: Arduino suitable for cold climate?
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2013, 01:26:45 AM »
Spar,

No experience with temps that cold. But I have played with the Xbee's using a few different micros and found them easy to use. Some of the mesh type networks were hard to set up, but point to point was easy. No problems with crappy data and I don't find them susceptible to noise. Decouple cap was all I ever used. Range not quite as good as they say unless you really get into the antenna but very good.

Jonathan

DamonHD

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 4125
  • Country: gb
    • Earth Notes
Re: Arduino suitable for cold climate?
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2013, 01:57:40 AM »
I'd be amazed if the PCB and other mechanical parts were happy at -40C, for a consumer-grade item, but it's cheap enough to just try one and see, maybe.

Rgds

Damon
Podcast: https://www.earth.org.uk/SECTION_podcast.html

@DamonHD@mastodon.social

OperaHouse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1308
  • Country: us
Re: Arduino suitable for cold climate?
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2013, 03:19:21 AM »
I remember years ago we were asked  to bid a sewage pump sequencer.  They sent us a competitors board.  That had a half watt resistor glued on top the micro.  Thought that was a novel approach.

SparWeb

  • Global Moderator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5452
  • Country: ca
    • Wind Turbine Project Field Notes
Re: Arduino suitable for cold climate?
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2013, 10:10:12 AM »
...  That had a half watt resistor glued on top the micro.  ...

You mean, like a miniature heater?
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

Larsmartinxt

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 48
  • Country: no
Re: Arduino suitable for cold climate?
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2013, 10:46:30 AM »
It's pretty common to incorporate a resistor for heating. I'm actualy designing a device at work that has this incorporated in form of a NTC resistor designed for this purpose.
You don't need a lot of power if the box is well insulated. It's also smart to have some heat regardless of the temperature ratings on the components to prevent condesation problems.

Lars

SparWeb

  • Global Moderator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5452
  • Country: ca
    • Wind Turbine Project Field Notes
Re: Arduino suitable for cold climate?
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2013, 02:42:02 PM »
.... to prevent condesation problems.
Lars

Good reminder, thanks!  If the box isn't sealed, then condensation forms under the IC's, then freezes, expands, and splits the IC off the solder pads.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

SparWeb

  • Global Moderator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5452
  • Country: ca
    • Wind Turbine Project Field Notes
Re: Arduino suitable for cold climate?
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2013, 02:44:36 PM »
The problem with "try-it-and-see" is the effort I would put into making a compartment for the nacelle, mounting the boards, and configuring the radio, only to discover next winter that it's FUBAR.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

JeffD

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: Arduino suitable for cold climate?
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2013, 06:16:21 PM »
My Arduino data logger/charge controller has been running since 2009 with temperatures drops to around -25C in February with no problems.  The 7805 reg on the Arduino board gives off a fair amount of heat which keeps the enclosure around -10C when its that cold.  Might do the same at -40C ie maybe only drop to -20C in the enclosure.  I had tested this in my deep freeze but it was only at -18C but showed that the heat from the regulator was enough to keep the board from getting too cold.

JeffD

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: Arduino suitable for cold climate?
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2013, 06:25:22 PM »
Sparweb,

I have been buying my Arduino clone boards from Dipmicro,http://www.dipmicro.com/store/ (Canadian co.), for about 3 years now.  I usually by two or four at a time and pay only about $13 a piece and the shipping is very reasonable too.  Boards are good quality and the price includes a USB cable too.  The 16X2 LCD displays are a good price too.

SparWeb

  • Global Moderator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5452
  • Country: ca
    • Wind Turbine Project Field Notes
Re: Arduino suitable for cold climate?
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2013, 04:50:38 PM »
Thanks for the link Jeff.

I'm already quite spoiled by having Solarbotics in town and nearby.

After further research I'm finding that most of the datasheets for the components on these boards are in the "industrial" class which allow for operation down to -40C, in most cases.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

DamonHD

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 4125
  • Country: gb
    • Earth Notes
Re: Arduino suitable for cold climate?
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2013, 06:06:28 AM »
You should be able to do something simple but cunning with (for example) a programmable temp sensor with a non-volatile programmable alarm output (enabled to come on below -15C for example) set to drive a small resistor heat source as described above, so you won't waste power when you don't need to, but should be able to put a floor on the temperature range inside the box.  You might need a FET or transistor to drive the load, getting you to a whole 3 components!

Rgds

Damon
Podcast: https://www.earth.org.uk/SECTION_podcast.html

@DamonHD@mastodon.social

SparWeb

  • Global Moderator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5452
  • Country: ca
    • Wind Turbine Project Field Notes
Re: Arduino suitable for cold climate?
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2013, 06:57:12 PM »
Yes, I like this line of ideas.  A miniature relay such as this from Jeff's link: http://www.dipmicro.com/store/1461400-1 makes it possible to drive the resistor from any independent power supply, especially useful if the datalogger relies on a battery (thought that is unlikely).  That makes the WT's output AC available for heating the compartment for the datalogger.  A flat ceramic resistor would allow the heat to be distributed more evenly.  Must prevent the AC power from becoming a source of RF noise in the vicinity of the ICs.  A well-grounded strip of metal between resistor and IC, maybe.  Or avoid all physical contact altogether, if the box is well insulated.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

RandomJoe

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
    • Joe's Time-Waster
Re: Arduino suitable for cold climate?
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2013, 12:36:13 AM »
I'm a bit late reading this, but thought I'd mention - you could build your own Arduino (at least the Uno type), thus using whatever spec components you want.  I can build a clone for about $3.50 in parts from Mouser.  The most basic form is just the AVR chip, a crystal/ceramic oscillator (and you don't even need that if the internal LC oscillator will work for you) and a couple resistors and capacitors.

A few lines wired to a header let me plug in a USB/serial converter (called FTDI Friend) to do programming that would normally be done with the Arduino's USB interface.

It also means you can select a better voltage regulator - the one on the original Arduino board is pushed pretty hard, especially if you use much more than 9V input. 

Also you can then custom-configure the PCB to any shape you want/need.

One of the first home-brew boards I made is an AVR programmer.  It has a ZIF socket, I buy unprogrammed AVRs, drop them in, press a button and it zaps them with the Arduino boot-loader (if that's the right term) so I can then use the chip with the Arduino IDE.  Several places also sell pre-loaded AVRs for a couple bucks more so you can skip that step.

A good schematic to get an idea what a more stripped-down version looks like is:
http://learn.adafruit.com/system/assets/assets/000/010/223/original/boarduinosch.png
This is the "Boarduino" from Adafruit.  I use them for prototyping since they plug into the breadboard nicely, and this schematic comes in handy for remembering what I need when building my own.