Author Topic: tower  (Read 5496 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

xxzxxz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Country: ru
tower
« on: March 27, 2014, 10:48:17 AM »
Hi, everybody.
Whether someone can give advice how to make a tower for the generator.  No more than 7-8 meters and loading (mass of the generator) no more than 25 kg.
Problem in that I have no enough of tools including a good welding machine.  I as much as possible use that I can buy in OBI shop.
I would like to receive a strong design with an ozmozhnost of access to the generator (the design has to maintain the weight of the generator and mine - 100 kg).

Now I think of the pipe shipped in concrete but it is possible to eat more "elegant" decisions"?

electrondady1

  • SuperHero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3120
  • Country: ca
Re: tower
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2014, 12:39:48 PM »
I can buy in OBI shop. ?

an ozmozhnost of access ?

Mary B

  • Administrator
  • SuperHero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3169
Re: tower
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2014, 05:21:53 PM »
Going by the specs I found on a  Bergey excel with a 23 foot dia set of blades the force generated at the top of a 100 foot tower is 2,000 pounds. That is equivalent to roughly 225 square feet of wind loading in tower terms. So any commercial tower would need to meet that specification. For home built the mast would have to withstand 2,000 pounds of bending force right at the top. Move the top guy point down and that force multiplies rapidly on a guyed mast. Designing a tower is kind of complicated with a lot of calculations that need to be done. Then there is any resonance the wind generator is going to cause in the tower itself.

xxzxxz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Country: ru
Re: tower
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2014, 06:04:26 AM »
I can buy in OBI shop. ?

an ozmozhnost of access ?

Sorry, Google - wonderful translator )
I meant that that I use 99% of all, I buy in a supermarket (OBI, METRO and others). At me here it is difficult with it.

xxzxxz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Country: ru
Re: tower
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2014, 07:03:04 AM »
2 MaryAlana
Sorry, you are use imperial system of measures???

For me design something from microelectronics to a nuclear bomb isn't difficult, but I need to understand the general principles. I wouldn't want to overcome many times problems which already to me someone overcame. It also is the reason to start this subject.

I in English badly understand it, and the physicist not a problem.

aerotron

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Country: ca
Re: tower
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2014, 01:35:15 PM »
For a tower in the style of aeromotor 1930's.....you need 4 angle irons for the corners... drill bolt holes every 60 inches along the length of each....then the cross pieces are at  2 feet 2 quarter inches,  3 feet 3 quarter inches,  4 feet 4 quarter inches,  5 feet 5 quater inches,  6 feet 6 quarter inches...etc etc ...logically you will need four of each cross piece...

Mary B

  • Administrator
  • SuperHero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3169
Re: tower
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2014, 05:27:40 PM »
The rotating blades i a wind turbine represent a partial solid surface based on the area of the circle they take up. What amount I have never calculated. Many say use the solid surface but the numbers I get calculating the wind force against the top of the tower do not support this. I come from the ham radio community but tower loading is similar down to vibration issues at times. http://www.va3cco.com/towerswindload.htm

SparWeb

  • Global Moderator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5452
  • Country: ca
    • Wind Turbine Project Field Notes
Re: tower
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2014, 06:02:43 PM »
Hi xxzxxz,

The bad news is that this board is mostly used in the USA, meaning you will see a lot of the Imperial feet and pounds.  The americans still use stone axes and bear skins too, but that's a whole other debate.

What is the diameter of your wind turbine?  Do you mean the wind turbine is 7 meters diameter, or the tower will be 7 meters tall?

A 7 meter tower is tall enough to merit serious attention.  The turbine on top is heavy enough that the way you raise your tower will require caution.

If you do not have a welding machine, do you you have metal cutting tools and drills that are needed to build a truss tower?



No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

aerotron

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Country: ca
Re: tower
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2014, 02:40:58 PM »
...oops...mea culpa....even those imperial  measurements were a little askew...the angle iron cross bars should read,  22 2/4 inches...33 3/4 inches...44 4/4 inches....55 5/4 inches...66 6/4 inches...etc. etc..... (by the way   xxzxxz , are you russkies still using that old archaic greek alphabet?)...sheesh!

Mary B

  • Administrator
  • SuperHero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3169
Re: tower
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2014, 05:16:06 PM »
I think a safe guesstimate is the top of the tower is going to have around 2,000 pounds pushing against it, so a 2 times that safety factor brings you to 4,000 pounds. Design for that and it might stay up...

Harold in CR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 564
Re: tower
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2014, 06:34:44 PM »
xxzxxz
 Go to the Google search box on your computer. Type in windmill tower. When you get results, go to the upper left hand corner of the monitor screen, and click on images.

 I don't know what language you do understand well, but, this images feature will have many different photos of designs. There is no reason you could not built a strong tower from wood, if you have decent weather resistant species in your country. The worst part of a tower is the center post that the generator attaches to. Design that to be very strong and you can have an inexpensive tower of 7-8 meters. You could also use 4 guy wires to help hold the tower, if you need.

 You should be able to find a sawmill that can cut 10 meter long 120mm square for the 4 legs. You could even use 2 piece legs if you put them inside square tube of sufficient strength and 1 bolt in each of the 2 pieces of leg.

 

 Just look at all the photos you can find and use common sense. A 3 meter set of blades will produce sufficient energy to get you started.

Smithson

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
Re: tower
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2014, 09:00:15 PM »
Aerotron:    So the length of the cross bars should be 22 1/2; 33 3/4; 45; 56 1/4; and 67 1/2?   Interesting.  Did you leave your "quarters" lengths in to show the progression beyond the length of the cross bars you provided or was that a result of not being familiar with the Imperial system?

I like the information.     Just trying to understand it.   Arch

xxzxxz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Country: ru
Re: tower
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2014, 09:04:36 AM »
Thank you for your quick response and humor)))
Especially humor.

2 aerotron
I also considered this option, I think it is the most optimal. But here vstet very important issue - the safety of children.
Technically, this tower is the most stable and safe. But I want to exclude the possibility of self-service access.

http://img.findpatent.ru/img_data/36/364505.gif
http://img.findpatent.ru/img_data/36/364500.gif
I understand that we are talking about such a structure?

PS. Yes we use archaic greek alphabet.
Russia - old-fashioned country  )))
Traditions...

2 MaryAlana
Yes. They write all right.
But we have a slightly different type of payload. Determination of the antenna at the tower does not mean rotation due to the load including the impact load.
In the case of static load - yes, he writes is true.

2 SparWeb
Hi SparWeb!
How dare you get bearskin using a stone ax? It is not humane!
Much easier to drink vodka and sleep having imposed bears !
But you're right, that's another discussion. )))

About the imperial system of weights and measures - it's a little strange to me , but no more.

I was referring to the tower height of seven meters . Windmill diameter of about three meters ( at the moment I'm testing the generator with plastic blades 1.2 meters long ) .
Weight of the generator - this is the main reason for my question. I would like to learn from the experience of people who have faced a similar problem .
I would say more , this complex question , because of the problems of my location. It floods every spring - next to me there are three rivers, picturesque, but adds a headache.

Welder there, but I am afraid to use it - the house is old and the electrical network in it too.

2 Harold in CR
Thank you for the excellent advice.
There is only one problem, we stopped using windmills about a hundred years ago.
Option with a tower of wood is not possible for several reasons. And the first of them I described just above - my plot of land is flooded every spring. I can not say that this is a big problem. But to build something out of wood is not advisable.

The basic idea is clear to me. Thank you.

PS...
Maybe my questions seem strange, but I have not seen either as a windmill except pictures. We have no alternative energy and never had.
Questions energy savings, separate waste collection, electric, waste recycling and green technology in general for most of our people - is the news from a parallel universe.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 09:12:04 AM by xxzxxz »

Mary B

  • Administrator
  • SuperHero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3169
Re: tower
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2014, 04:06:14 PM »
3 meters is a LOT less wind load so that makes things easier. Solid plate design is 7 square meters, I think it would be safe to cut that by 2/3  2.33 meters of wind load or 25 sq feet. Many ham radio towers are rated to this. To keep the tower from being climbed make a set of panels like these



Many have a provision to put a lock of some sort through them to lock them to the tower so they cannot be easily removed.

xxzxxz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Country: ru
Re: tower
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2014, 09:15:43 AM »
Hello.

I considered this decision, however, has a relative high price for one section (about $ 200), excluding a concrete foundation.
But the simplicity and the ability to protect - very good.

Thank you MaryAlaha.

Mary B

  • Administrator
  • SuperHero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3169
Re: tower
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2014, 04:56:34 PM »
I was thinking home made... if you go with a home built lattice type tower make some anti climb panels to keep the kids off. Here in the USA if a child(not one of your own) drags out a ladder to get above the panels and falls and gets hurt you are not liable insurance wise because the child made a decision to attempt to get above the safety panels.

12AX7

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 814
Re: tower
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2014, 05:38:36 PM »
Back in the mid 70s I put up a 40ft free standing antenna tower (ham radio)  After we put up the top section my buddy and I took a break (a brat and a beer)  When we went out to put up my 11 element 2 meter beam I was surprised to find my 4 1/2 year old son up about 20ft.

The only good thing about it...  is my wife doesn't remember that!

xxzxxz

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Country: ru
Re: tower
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2014, 08:23:53 AM »
I was thinking home made... if you go with a home built lattice type tower make some anti climb panels to keep the kids off. Here in the USA if a child(not one of your own) drags out a ladder to get above the panels and falls and gets hurt you are not liable insurance wise because the child made a decision to attempt to get above the safety panels.

This is understandable.