Author Topic: Storing Wind Power As Compressed Air (Read 10146 times)

MacGyver/afreeman.pacs@gm · « **on:** May 20, 2014, 11:57:54 PM »

Hi all. I'm kinda new here, although I've been around TheBackShed.com for quite a while.

I'll make it short and sweet: I store my wind energy as compressed air. All my windmills,
except for the "yard art" ones run little piston or paristaltic pumps. The air is transferred
through solid copper lines to the receiver. It loses most of its heat of compression on its
way to the receiver.

The receiver has an over-pressure pop-off valve for safety, which I leave set at around
35 psig. I use the compressed air to run small air-driven engines. If I want to make some
electricity, I couple an air engine to an alternator and do all my electricity creation, including
rectification, down on the ground.

I build mostly VAWT machines, as I've come up with a design, which is robust, easy to build
and strong. I live on the Texas prairie, where the winds blow 20 o 30 mph all day and all
night on a regular basis. No lack of wind power here!

My VAWT blades are made of sheet plastic and can be built any size I want, but I try to keep
them on the order of about 2 feet tall and no more than 3 feet long. That's a maximum of 6
square feet facing the wind at all times. There are 4 blades inside each VAWT contraption.
As soon as I can get some free time (I'm retired, but . . . well, we won't get into that) I'll
post the build on both 4ms, if I can figure out how to post pictures here.

Most of the stuff I build is small-ish, but the VAWT's design can be built to ANY size you have
room for. When my old house, which was destroyed by a tornado, is finished being torn down,
I plan on building a new VAWT with four 20-square-foot blades there. The entire machine will stand
about 3 feet tall and be about 11 feet in diameter.

. . . . . Mac

margusten · « **Reply #1 on:** May 21, 2014, 04:00:36 AM »

Hi MacGyver,

I don't believe this. Can You show some pictures.
This is great idea to use compressed air instead of heavy and expensive battery to store energy.

Margus

MacGyver/afreeman.pacs@gm · « **Reply #2 on:** May 21, 2014, 06:14:25 AM »

Sorry; for now, you'll just have to believe it.

I'm smack dab in the middle of building an up-wind HAWT with lighted blades (yard art). As soon as it's done, I'll be starting on a new VAWT with a new piston-type air compressor attached and THEN I'll snap some pictures and post them, both here and on my regular 4m, at TheBackShed.com.

If "I don't believe it" means you think I'm full of crap and just blowing smoke, well, you're not that far off; I do like to blow smoke. I'm a "Guru" member at the other Web site, so that's the only "proof" I can offer you at this time. I'm for real and I "WILL" post the build; hide and watch.

. . . . . Mac

Smithson · « **Reply #3 on:** May 21, 2014, 12:48:50 PM »

MacGyver: Curious, does an "upwind HAWT" mean that it it has a tail on it? Arch

madlabs · « **Reply #4 on:** May 21, 2014, 07:59:13 PM »

If no pics, how's about some numbers? Like watt/hours you can store, size of tanks, CFM @ X pressure in X wind speed? Just something to give us an idea of the scale you are talking about.

Jonathan

MacGyver/afreeman.pacs@gm · « **Reply #5 on:** May 21, 2014, 11:14:52 PM »

I just got an email from Fieldlines.com administration telling me my user name is too long.

THEY changed it and made it too long. What a bunch of fuctards!

For that reason, this will be my FINAL POST on Fieldlines. I don't have time to deal with stupid
and I'm told you can't fix it anyway, no matter how hard you try.

If you want to follow my VAWT builds and adventures in windmills that pump air, go to TheBackShed.com
and look for my posts there. My username there is MacGyver (just like it was originally here, before the
idiots changed it and made it longer than long).

I'm outta here!

. . . . . Mac

DamonHD · « **Reply #6 on:** May 22, 2014, 01:38:35 AM »

Apparently I am that "fuctard" so given this response to a polite enquiry by me I am closing the account.

Damon

Flux · « **Reply #7 on:** May 22, 2014, 02:46:43 AM »

I don't normally comment on such things, but I suspect this will be no great loss.

Flux

Mary B · « **Reply #8 on:** May 22, 2014, 01:33:04 PM »

Sounded a lot like one of the over unity idiots...

XeonPony · « **Reply #9 on:** May 23, 2014, 08:30:02 PM »

based on the first few postings I'm in agreement, no loss, as the say pics or it didn't happen, no data, no info, it was more of a "Hey look at me" post then one of any real use.

Then to come off like a prick, ya <_< not cool

ChrisOlson · « **Reply #10 on:** May 24, 2014, 01:02:48 AM »

Actually, Freeman has been promoting this concept for quite some time on The Back Shed. I don't recall ever seeing the concept actually working, just bits and pieces like an air engine posted before:
http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4544

XeonPony · « **Reply #11 on:** May 24, 2014, 08:27:59 PM »

lots of people have thought of it, I seen it don first hand, so there is nothing special about it.

The point is he made three posts that are wortheles really as he gave no use full specs/pictures/napkin drawing on it. If they just wanted attention there are easier ways. tht was my point.

ChrisOlson · « **Reply #12 on:** May 24, 2014, 09:00:43 PM »

Could be. I think Al was just trying to make new friends. He lives in Texas out in the middle of nowhere in a RV in a little town - moved there after he and his wife separated. He don't get out much but he enjoys building little turbines that aren't really practical for much other than fun.

electrondady1 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 24, 2014, 09:06:13 PM »

a windmill for aerating ponds
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/galvanized-3-legged-windmill-aeration-system-12-foot/810165

4.5 cfm @30 psi`
i know nothing about air tools
you could spray paint in the shop i suppose but not much good for sandblasting.

ChrisOlson · « **Reply #14 on:** May 24, 2014, 09:36:35 PM »

We got an old Aeromotor 8 foot windmill here - a water pumper. It has been pumping water on this farm for over 80 years. We pulled the well and I put new leathers in the pump once a few years back. It has pumped in the millions of gallons of water since it was put in service in 1932 and works even in very light winds.

Pumping air with a windmill is easy compared to pumping water against 60 feet of head.

MattM · « **Reply #15 on:** May 25, 2014, 02:51:25 AM »

Well, it might be 60 foot to the water, but it's a lift pump so it's not a great deal of load. 33 foot is about the maximum one can siphon/suction, but lift pumps have no such limitation.

Frank S · « **Reply #16 on:** May 25, 2014, 03:59:50 PM »

lifting water be it 60 ft or 600 ft the amount of power to lift the column is relative to the weight of the column length + the resistance to flow in the pipe
Chris O's water pumping wind mill was design sized for the depth of the bore the average daily winds and the size of the bore.
I imagine that Chris has a 602 model aermotor on his mill. They were made to last almost forever with yearly maintenance.

ChrisOlson · « **Reply #17 on:** May 25, 2014, 08:27:57 PM »

Our old water pumper is a A602 and it has a 2 3/16" pump bore x 24" stroke. At 60 ft head it takes 26 psi at the pump, at 100 ft head it takes 43 psi. Our mill was built in Chicago in 1932 but you can still get parts for them from Aermotor in Texas. They are virtually indestructible and the first ones were built in 1888.

You run into lots of people these days that claim that wind power don't work, isn't practical, or costs too much. I sort of laugh at that - there are many Aermotor water pumpers that are over 100 years old and still running and pumping water on the central plains. There is no modern submersible DC solar pump built that can match a 100 year old Aermotor 602 for reliability and pure volume of water pumped.

XeonPony · « **Reply #18 on:** May 25, 2014, 10:40:56 PM »

Quote from: ChrisOlson on May 24, 2014, 09:00:43 PM

Could be. I think Al was just trying to make new friends. He lives in Texas out in the middle of nowhere in a RV in a little town - moved there after he and his wife separated. He don't get out much but he enjoys building little turbines that aren't really practical for much other than fun.

Well if he'd started with that I'd imagin things would have gon allot smoother for the poor guy!

No need for em to be power houses but given that if no pics details are needed

MIgardener · « **Reply #19 on:** May 26, 2014, 08:50:43 PM »

I've heared of this being done to power tools.

But using compressed air to run a generator seems like it would be incredibly ineffiecent.

Mary B · « **Reply #20 on:** May 27, 2014, 04:00:34 PM »

Could give him a second chance, with the warning to be civil. I know they have looked at compressed air storage here along Buffalo Ridge for the big commercial turbines, keep them running instead of shutting them down when off peak hits. That way when peak hits they could carry more of the load than just the turbines alone. Seems a waste to have a multi million dollar turbine sitting there doing nothing when it could be producing some method of power storage. They are also looking at huge battery banks there too, it is a new old idea to keep them turning.

CraigM · « **Reply #21 on:** May 27, 2014, 05:26:19 PM »

In McIntosh Alabama a CAES (Compressed Air Energy Storage) has been in operation since 1991.

Compressed and heated air is produce during off peak time and stored underground in natural caverns. It is then released during times of high demand, waste heat is added and the heated air is converted to energy through expansion turbines.

Perhaps a battery / compressed air system where your dump load goes to compressed air would allow greater storage flexibility.

electrondady1 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 27, 2014, 07:38:50 PM »

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=TxBypgClSLZ0pM&tbnid=lcPee__5NkqDCM:&ved=0CAMQjhw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theengineer.co.uk%2Fin-depth%2Fthe-big-story%2Fcompressed-air-energy-storage-has-bags-of-potential%2F1008374.article&ei=5RuFU6mcI4KJqgalx4KYDQ&bvm=bv.67720277,d.aWw&psig=AFQjCNHgFM7g9laGAxORUjfQy1_gI0GTBw&ust=1401318462218978

ChrisOlson · « **Reply #23 on:** May 27, 2014, 08:37:17 PM »

Al Freeman (aka MacGyver) is not doing his project on a large scale powering his home with it or anything. He enjoys playing with very small turbines and motors that are more a hobby like the RC airplanes he also builds and flies. He used to live in a house in town and could not fly big turbines. Since he moved to Texas he has more room to try his hand at making larger ones.

I don't know what happened here that "set him off" but he's been a long time contributor to The Back Shed with a lot of his small scale projects. None of which might be practical to power your home, but are more on the fun (hobby) side, and experimenting with things that are outside the box thinking.

Again, I don't know what happened with his user name or anything here. But on The Back Shed he has always been an amicable fellow willing to share his (sometimes outrageous) ideas and projects - some of them he has made to work and some have failed. But I have always figured that all thru history most of the greatest discoveries and inventions were made by scientists and engineers/inventors that did not follow "consensus". And Mr. Freeman, on The Back Shed, has never been afraid of criticism or let it reduce his enthusiasm for a project, even if it failed in the end. He is also a skilled machinist and has a little tabletop vertical mill and lathe that he builds his small projects on. It is my opinion that kicking him off the forum due to whatever misunderstanding took place is truly a loss to the forum, even if you don't always agree with his ideas or projects he comes up with.

electrondady1 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 27, 2014, 09:00:12 PM »

be that as it may he owes Damon an apology and if he wants to talk about his tricky system he should back it up with photos or what ever . i know him from the back shed and never had a problem with the guy .
he always seemed up beat and positive.
i can't recall anything about his builds but i remember he was renovating his house and rode a bicycle with it's own gun and holster.

Bruce S · « **Reply #25 on:** May 29, 2014, 08:41:09 AM »

Hello All;
I'm not sure what set him off.
BUT perhaps as calmer minds prevail we can get this problem resolved?
At lunch time in the Midwest today, I think I will visit the depths of the system to see where these went haywire, which includes unlocking his login.
I do not know the guy nor do I visit the backshed website much, but with the off chance he'll stop by and help explain. It'll be there if he wishes to revisit this post.
Cheers
Bruce S

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Author Topic: Storing Wind Power As Compressed Air (Read 10146 times)

MacGyver/afreeman.pacs@gm

MacGyver/afreeman.pacs@gm

MacGyver/afreeman.pacs@gm