Author Topic: Methane digester and compression system  (Read 13309 times)

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XeonPony

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Methane digester and compression system
« on: June 29, 2014, 10:01:50 AM »
Well I finaly goten serious about going to stage two, a more percicely engineered system, goal is sto store enough methane to use it with out interuption or running out. To do this I am going to compress it into storage tanks.

So lets start with the digester:

1,000L tank, wast goes into the upper side, the digested slurry leaves the bottom (Flow through system) the slurry exits to a final tank befor being discharged to the green house (When it is finaly built)

Inside the tank there is a roll of oxigen barrier pex, it is used to heat the tank.

Gass is drawen off the top lid to the surface (Grade level)

The scrubber:

Stage 1 the gas is bubbles through a soda water mix to remove any contaminants and or organic acids, this now cleaned gas is passed through a colecent filter.

Stage 2 it passes into a refrigerated drier system, 2 feet of 4" white pvc with end caps. Inside the pvs the top half has a coil of 1/4 copper that is packed with copper scrubbies the lower half has nothing, this upper part is the active drying system using a bar fridge compressor.

The condensate is drained via gravity back to the digester tank through a check valve, the raw gas enters just below the center and the dried gas out the top.

Gas seperator:

This is a simply a 100 pound propane tank the gas enters the center, the top goes to the compressor, the lower drain is to purg the co2 (Still trying to figure an automated way to do this)

Compressor:

the gas flows through a silica bed to remove any traces of possible moisture that got through the scrubbing phase. The compressors are a matched set of deep freeze units.

Stage one the dried and filtered gas enters the comressors suction, it then flows out the discharg into an oil seperator*, then to a plate heat exchanger**

the gas then continues to the next compression stage, it to goes through an oil seperator^
then to a larg fan air coil unit for cooling befor proceeding to the storage tanks.

* & ^ The seperated oil flows through a air coil unit to cool down, it then flos through the compressors oil cooling loop befor being dumped into the suction line through a metering tube

** water is circulated through the inter cooler then directed to heat the digester, as is the waste heat from the refrigerated gas drying system

The dried and cooled high pressure gas then discharges through a catylitic oxigen scavenger and routed through 316SS Low carbon pipe to 6 propane tanks (100pounders) stored in a second isolated pit to keep a steady temp.

The Math:

127Cubic feet of ch4 contains 20,268 BTU
To cram 127 cubic feet into a space of 7.05 cubic feet (3 100 pound tanks) we need to bring the pressure up, when we do this we 1 generate heat, and 2 we squeeze out any heat the gass all ready had!

Step one we need to know the pressure P1*V1 =P2*V2 > P1:24.7*V1: 127Cubic feet = V2: 7.05*P2: ?

P2= V1: 127*P1: 24.7 / V2: 7.05 = 264psia (This will be the tank pressure at 20c (68f))

Compression ratio : P2/P1  264.7psiA / 24.7psiA = 10.7 (Idealy for good compressor life we want to keep it to 5 or lower hence the 2 compressors)

heat rise is P1*V1/T1 =P2*V2/T2

T2= P1*V1*T1/P2*V2

T2= T1 528rankin *P1: 24.7psia * V1: 127cf^3 / P2: 264.7 * 7.05 = 887.55rankin - 460 to get F = 427.55 degrees (This is why we need the intercooler as simply to much heat for the compressor valves to handle, by using 2 stages and an inter cooler we lower the heat to a safe level!) This is why we need a final cooling stage befor puting it into the tanks, it will only cool off more as it travels improving the storage system

since for a decent amount for cooking or a shower we need more so for now I just decided to add a second row of tanks, idealy I'd like some 2000L tanks say 3 of them in perallel but for now as a prototype system it will do.

Methane digesters produce the most gas when heated so by recycling the waste leat I can keep the digester at a perfect temp for high production.
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

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XeonPony

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2014, 10:10:41 AM »
Controls:

A Low side switch is used on the digester side to trigger the dryer system, when the pressure gets to 10psi, it turns on the dryer unit, when this gets to temp it triggers stage 2 of the compression system, when stage 2 pumps its suction line down it turns on stage one.

this ensures all systems can not start befor their suporting unit is ready, so if any link fails it is impossible for the system to run!

the final stage discharge goes through a check valve as the high side is made allowed to bleed back to the low side via the oil seperator /cooling system.  When stage 2 is off the intercooler will be at a higher resting pressure, as will it be when opperating (low in this case being slight at or over 150psi!)

> Gas feed stock > check valve> compressor > oil sep > plate heat exchanger > low side pressure switch > stage 2 compressor > Heat exchanger > oxygen scavenger > tanks + High pressure cut off switch

both stage 1 & 2 will be equiped with a manual reset high pressure cut off switch set to about 450psi, stage 1 will be equiped with a thermal shut off on the discharge as well.

All the gear I will be using is refrigeration parts as they are idealy suited for this project.

The tanks will be protected from over pressure by a rundandant blow off valve system that will vent to a 10 foot stack
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 10:16:24 AM by XeonPony »
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

XeonPony

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2014, 10:21:48 AM »
Reserved for schematics
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

XeonPony

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2014, 10:22:02 AM »
Reserved for pictures
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

electrondady1

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2014, 07:36:36 PM »
what do you use for a feed stock for the process ?

XeonPony

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2014, 09:00:57 AM »
every thing! if it rotts it goes in!
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

Bruce S

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2014, 09:07:26 AM »
Impressive! Very well thought through!! During the initial startup (i.e. loading the feed stock and waiting for the little buggers to get at it)  you will have time to possibly acquire more tanks.
Last time I did anything like this I think it took every bit of 18 days before I show any sign of it working.

I just got city approval of my greenhouse plans. I had to get those as the peak will be above the ten foot mark.
Best of Luck
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madlabs

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2014, 11:02:07 AM »
Xeon,

I'm very interested, I have been thinking of such a system for a while now. I would dearly love to get my cooking gas this way, maybe even water heating. Keep us informed!

Jonathan

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2014, 12:07:05 PM »
google search--https://www.google.com/search?q=fixed+dome+digester&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb
WILD in ALASKA

hiker

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2014, 12:11:16 PM »
well that link didnt work out..............just a google search page for gas domes
WILD in ALASKA

dnix71

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2014, 12:19:29 PM »
What is the return on energy investment? Cooking with wood chips sounds a lot simpler, unless it's illegal to use a wood stove/barbeque to cook on.

Bruce S

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2014, 02:14:32 PM »
dnix71;
I'm thinking XP will be using cast-off yard waste and animal "byproducts" as feed stock ( I could be wrong)!
That way there is no out of pocket, except for the equipment not already owned.
The energy used for pumps would of course need to be factored in for return on investment and carbon based consumptions.
Cheers
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XeonPony

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2014, 10:45:33 PM »
Being I work in hvac all most every thing is free, the only thing I'll pay for is the oxygen recombinant catylest, and possibly the tanks, as for the feed stock I have 4 dogs my self grass clippings and so on.

For bacteria I cheat, I just buy septobac and dump 2 pouches in, with my revised idea there will be heat being dumped in which will really accelerate things, and I am doing a flow through design as it will be hooked to the toilet (Only 2's go down the pipe)

All the compressors are old fridge units as they are rated for 500psi mop, same with some retasked air conditioner condensers.

electricity will be fromt he solar system, as the gas is going to be opperated in a batch set up, once the digester gets to 10psi or so it will trigger the system that then sucks it down to 2psi, rinse and repeat, and there will be a buffer to ensure each batch runs for at least 5 minutes or longer for compressor life.
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

phil b

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2014, 02:30:03 AM »
XP, do you have to purge the air from the compressors before you can compress the methane gas?

This is very interesting. I remember the Chinese biogas books of the '70's used a dome shaped dryer and used the gas directly from the top of the dome.

I hope you take plenty of pictures and post them.
Phil

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2014, 10:06:13 AM »
YES YES YES! removal of all air is CRITCAL for safety, doing other wise you have a FUEL BOMB

high lighted for any casual readers! I am going to Nitrogen to 400psi, & then vacuum purge the whole system to below 500 microns!

Basicaly I am going to commision the whole thing like a hydrocarbon refrigeration system, and all electrical will be don explossion proof.

Storage system building safety:

I discribed the safety of the process equipment but not the actual building that will house it all.

The tanks will be stored in a pit underground for 2 reasons, tempriture stability #2 shielding should a tank rupture, the pit will be covered by the methane digester tank and the compression gear, the roof will be secured on only one side as will the building to foundation, so in the event of an explosion or tank failure it will fly in a controlled direction.

it will be plast away from all living quarters of all animals on the site the gas will be reduced to 30psi exiting the plant and then to its final.5 psi at each place of usage.

Inside the pit and plant room will be methane detectors if triggered they will imediately sound a high volume alarm, lock out all electrical loads, and activate a vent fan, allarms fans and lock out will be manual reset only, fan will remain on till both alarms and detectors have been reset.

The over pressure blow off valve will vent to a 10 foot stack above the housing this will trigger an alarm and a flare off device so the vented methane is burned thus rendering safe.

I worked around industry and explosives and still have all my bits, I didn't do this by not thinking of all possible failure modes! free gas does no good if you end up in lower earth orbit! ;)
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 10:16:31 AM by XeonPony »
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

XeonPony

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2014, 10:20:51 AM »
forgot to state the purging is a 1 time event unless I need to do repairs to the system, the whole design is built to keep from the digester to the tanks in a higher then atmosphere pressure excluding o2 from getting in, it will all ways leak out wards.

the building will have a weak wall, so the wall will yield along with the roof, this will minimize over all damage to the structure and make all derbies fly in a known direction.

this is a very long term project due to the time it will take to dig/build the pit, but the compression and dryer system I can start building once I make the space for it and have the parts lined up. I need to buy a new oxy acetylene torch befor I can start that as it is all silver brazed piping

due to the fact I'll be using salvaged tanks (I'll very diligently check them inside and out for rust spots and any cracking), I'll bring them to test pressure from far away, then I will let it rest for a day, check standing pressure, once that has been don I will soap test all joints for even the tiniest of leaks. prevention of problems is the cheapest repair you can ever due, that and a good tight system is an efficient productive system (Again I am treating it as if I was building a refrigeration system as essentially it is exactly that, only instead of being an open loop it is a closed straight line)

And unlike plumbers I use unions! they make life so much easier when repairs need be don, and for other hook ups flares, the tanks and high pressure system will be swaglock SS fitings
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 10:32:02 AM by XeonPony »
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

Bruce S

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2014, 02:38:59 PM »
XP;
Your explanation of hazards reminds me of when we were doing some showing of a OZONE-ation setup. A "guy" wanted to know why all the extra safety , so the plant master engineer show him in a small demonstration setup of what happens when anything organic gets around high-levels of ozone  ;).
Pretty awesome what a few extra atoms can do!!
I like to idea of building in a known blast section.
I probably missed it, but are you going to have the clean-out section in the weak wall area as well? Would make sense if so, since eventually even with 100% scavenge of hydro-carbons, there will be the resulting ash build up.
One other thing I may have missed is the stirring mechanism for keeping the top section stirred.

Cheers!
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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2014, 09:04:52 PM »
XP; I was wondering about any back purging cleaning of the scrubbers or other clean out method
Surely the Scrubber and the filters will eventually require some maintenance
 Also for the tank you mentioned about the gas entering the center and exiting the top to the compressor, would it be possible to use a male run "T" in the existing top hole then with a reducer and a SS tube insert the tube so that it ends about center the gas would enter from the fitting with the tube and exit through the branch of the "T" making a coaxial set up reducing any need to add additional fitting flanges to the tank
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XeonPony

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2014, 11:40:16 AM »
the scrubbers will be liquide with the gas bubbled through, this allows the reactore to be very well seals and new fluid changed in easily.  the bicarbonate solution will flow through a mechanical filter then into the reactor  during off times or if if I use some other catylest to remove any potential h2s, there are a few options here, all have their advantages and disadvantages. one of them is this: http://www.catalysts.basf.com/p02/USWeb-Internet/catalysts/en/content/microsites/catalysts/prods-inds/adsorbents/met-oxide-pur-adsorb

idea is to make two identical stacks and have them hooked perallel and just use a lead lag set up.

As for conections I am keeping it simple, a good fiting is easy enough to ensure the tank has very few only 3, the dryer will have three, after that it is all serial, due to it being a batch system any thing that needs work will be don between batches, the h2s scrubber will the only one that will need any servicing as it is the first thing hit by the raw gas flow, and then the gas should be fairly clean, the only other possible point of maintenance would be the post scruber coleasent filter. once it hits the drier it will be clean as it can get, and after it dry as it can get, but even then I am puting in a silicagell gell stack that is colour indicating (Blue = dry pink = saturated with a filter at both ends!

the oxygen catylest is the only other service point and I am looking at 3 styles, one is a custom idea using aquis iron (Apears greenish tinge in degasses water) again a flow through system where I can redox the rust back to iron with H2 gass under heat @ atmospheric pressure, tetracarbozine

It is cheaper and safer to over engineer this stage then any other as with perdictable gas quality it maximizes the life of the remainder.

I am still hammering out the full process method and how to arrange it, no gas will be burned in or around the unit, the flare off is strictly an emergency system to protect agaisnt any blast possibility in the event of a release.

Bruce S: Ozon in liquide state is pale blue, and explosive! same with crystalized O3 :) it is indeed very potent stuff, I have a small generatore for water treatment using a venturie injector for my water tanks.
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

XeonPony

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2014, 12:08:13 PM »
forgot to answer the question of stirring, yes idea one is a submersible pump siting in the tank with a t then pipes on the discharge with nossles drilled in it say 1/2 inch to an inch aimed at 45 degrees down wards, to stirr the bottom mass up, and use a lock out feature at a certain pressure to allow the uper layer to settle befor the compression cycle started, or just do it via a timer and just let it go as it goes sort of thing.

the other idea was to take atmosphere off the top of the tank and buble it though the bottom via proper fizzer rocks to build a fluid current up to rotate the contents of the tank, I'll go with what ever uses the least energy to acheive that will last the longest.
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

XeonPony

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2014, 12:11:06 PM »
XP; I was wondering about any back purging cleaning of the scrubbers or other clean out method
Surely the Scrubber and the filters will eventually require some maintenance
 Also for the tank you mentioned about the gas entering the center and exiting the top to the compressor, would it be possible to use a male run "T" in the existing top hole then with a reducer and a SS tube insert the tube so that it ends about center the gas would enter from the fitting with the tube and exit through the branch of the "T" making a coaxial set up reducing any need to add additional fitting flanges to the tank

I get you know for the water seperator side, I may be able to, but there is going to be a heat scavenger on the system as well so no matter what there is going to be allot of conections and be very cramped in there. though I do like the idea.
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

alcul8r

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2014, 12:07:06 PM »
XP, as best I could tell, you are going to use gravity to separate CO2 and Methane? Best info I could find says this is not possible, but I will look forward to progress reports.

Looks like a fine project to incorporate your skills and conduct research in a much-needed area.

XeonPony

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2014, 06:55:36 PM »
that was the idea, use a dry clean gas and hope it would stratify if left cool & static. looks like an adsorbant method will be required, or liquify it and do fractional distilation, end up with dry ice that burns may be? lol!
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

Frank S

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2014, 11:50:59 PM »
sounds like you may require some form of sodium hydroxide filter inline with your system but you would need one that does not form a solid packed carbonic acid salt. One that would expel the Co2, or after absorbing to near the point of saturation the filter might be subjected to enough heat to cook the co3 out of the binder media containing the sodium hydroxide. The catalyst to cause the reaction  the filter work, might be of all things a small %age of moisture 
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XeonPony

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2014, 10:00:49 AM »
I am looking at molecular sieve, they are zeolite based, and will expell the co2 on decompression, so would be a lead lag system, trick is finding one that will not effect the methane at all.
but ya a cuastic soda would work, the needed moisture will be pressent befor the final stage drier, there is lithium hydroxide scrubbers too with an indicater to boot, just need to source it, and still trying to get the time to do a proper draft of system components, the way the work schedual  set up leaves me with no fing time!
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

XeonPony

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2014, 11:54:58 AM »
while reading this post: http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/showthread.php?41474-R290-undercharge-in-1-ton-cap-tube-split-sytem-heat-pump

I realized my attack of the final stage compression is flawed, I can just use 1 R-410a rotory compressor for the final stage! as 410  a is a very high pressure gas (High side on a sunny day can be near 400psi!)
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

Frank S

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2014, 07:22:11 PM »
XP; since I am not familiar with most fridge equipment, my limited scope in that area would be automotive or closed loop heat ex-changers, chillers. and shop air- compressor systems
 I was wondering if there will be any lubrication  issues. I've installed & serviced many rotary screw & vane type air compressors, and all had an oil injection system + a recovery & drier system on them.
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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2014, 10:26:03 AM »
oh ya there will be oil separators needed. I covered that in the compression stage, all so taking advantage of the need for it, by cooling the compressors, since the oil will be leaving with the heat it absorbs, befor returning the oil .

I'll be using the temp-rite 340 series coalescing oil separators. For cooling I'll modify a condenser from an old air con (Window shaker)
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2014, 10:42:15 AM »
due to a misguided system of limmiting times for modifying posts that seems to be the rage on all forums now days, here is a whole new post for photos
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Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

Frank S

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Re: Methane digester and compression system
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2014, 03:41:24 PM »
Thanks XP. I guess i didn't read the original post  thoroughly enough for full comprehension.
 I wish we had a good White page section on these forums for when someone like you and others finalize their projects they could place them in an archive like a few other forums have
 
I live so far outside of the box, when I die they will stretch my carcass over the coffin