Author Topic: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild  (Read 14000 times)

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CBabcock

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10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« on: July 12, 2014, 06:51:59 PM »
Hey Guys,

Just wanted to post a few pics of the Ventera 10 kW turbine that I am rebuilding.  This is a 10 kW grid tie machine and made a BOAT LOAD of power when I had it running previously.  I had this machine flying at my place for a few years and a couple years ago, it seized.  At that point, I took it down and stored it in the barn until I decided what to do with it.  Well, this spring I dug it out and started going through it to get it back in the air.

 

The first step was going to be to pull the hub from the machine and to check the bearings.  I fabbed up a custom puller for the hub using a 3 jaw puller and replacing it's arms with angle iron legs that could bolt to the blade bolt holes.  From there pulling the hub was pretty easy.  I could see spots on the neo magnet "can" that had rubbed with the stator but did not cause any major damage.  A bit of cleaning and it should be good to go.
 

Now that the hub is off, time to pull the shaft and bearings.  There's a large retaining ring holding the whole assembly in there that needed to be removed before the bearings would come out of the frame.  Then I used a heavy pair of vice grips and a dead blow hammer to pound outward on the vice grips to extract the shaft as I do not have a slide hammer.
   

Then to the press to remove the old failed bearings and to install new ones
 

All cleaned up, new bearings and shaft back installed.  This machine had spun a bearing in the past, so I added some Locktite 242 to the outer races of the bearings before reinstalling them into the bore this time.  No endplay or backlash could be felt, so I think we should be good to go.  The new bearings were nice and smooth compared to the old ones.


I also found that the hub had spun on the shaft and lost it's close tolerance fit.  I drilled and tapped 3 holes in between each blade "sockets" for set / jacking screws to secure the hub to the shaft.  Then when installing the hub on the shaft, I globbed the bore of the hub with Locktite 3300 structural adhesive to take up any gaps and shimmed it true before locking the set screws.  Chances are, it will never come apart again without dynamite.  :-)

I'll get some more pics of the governor set-up, blades and inverter when I get it ready to go back up soon.

More to come!!

Corey

SparWeb

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2014, 12:55:23 AM »
Thanks for the "insiders" point of view!

I'm also pleased to hear that the turbine has been performing well for you.
Looking forward to seeing it back up in the air.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
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AzSun

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2014, 10:01:53 PM »
Nice article, thanks for sharing.

CBabcock

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2014, 07:31:01 PM »
Hey guys,

I've got some more pics of the Ventera to share.

We'll start with the blades:
 
The rotor is 22 feet in diameter and the blades are injection molded reinforced plastic.  This is the same material used on the Whisper 100, 200, AIR, etc.  At the time I got the machine, they were the largest injection molded blades known to exist from any manufacturer.

The outer half or tip portion of the blade changes pitch via a pitch rod that internally runs the length of the blade.  This rod is attached to the blade tip and extends out the mounting tube at the root.
   

Next well take a look at the governor:

The black arms are actually flyweights and are held in their "home" position via a spring.  All 3 flyweights are synchronized via the triangular synchronizer plate in the center. This plate is mounted on a bearing and is free to rotate independent of the rotor shaft.  All 3 weights are forced to move the same distance at the same time because of the synchronizer plate.  Also attached to each flyweight is a second swivel link.  This second swivel link has a stud protruding from it which threads into the pitch rod that extends from the mounting end of each blade and is what is used to vary the pitch of the outer half of each blade.  This governor is strictly based on speed for it's operation.  The faster the rotor turns, the farther the flyweights extend, and the more the blade tips change pitch slowing the rotor down.  As the rotor slows down, the weights retract and the tips return to their normal position.  This governor has proven itself to be very effective and smooth in limiting power as well as speed.  Even when unloaded, this machine will not overspeed.  Awesome. :D

Last, but not least, is the synchronous inverter.
    8305-5
The inverter takes the wild 3 phase output from the turbine and converts it to standard 240 VAC for grid tie.  I love this inverter due to the fact that it also has a seperate 2 kW solar input.  If I get all of my PV on track sometime soon, I can tie it in to this inverter as well.  The inverter takes full advantage of the wind if needed and will reduce the amount of PV it will accept if the turbine is delivering more than 10kW.  As the wind turbine nears closer and closer to the inverter's 12 kW max rating, it will decrease the PV circuit as needed to take advantage of the wind when it's available.  Really cool! 8)  Both the wind and solar inputs are MPPT.

That's all I have for now.  I'm hoping to get the machine mounted back on the tower in the next week or two and will update when I get that completed.

Corey

SparWeb

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2014, 01:24:29 AM »
I can see why you're a real booster for Ventera. 
I did not know that it has PV support built in, thanks for that extra observation.
Do you also have a battery back-up system?  Would that require a different inverter from Ventera?

The president of Ventera is on the record saying that their turbines are designed for a 30-year life, but the magazine Home Power's review of the VT10 only lists a 5 year warranty.  The similar Bergey is guaranteed for 10.  Even if you believe the 30-year prediction, did you get a 5-year warranty on yours?

Is there much of a seam or a gap when the blade tips is pitched 0 degrees relative to the root?

When you get it back together, would you be kind enough to feel for any "free play" in the pitch mechanism?  For my curiosity or for your own peace of mind, as you like.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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CBabcock

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2014, 06:25:01 PM »
Hi Spar,

"Do you also have a battery back-up system?  Would that require a different inverter from Ventera?"
I actually have another system running here that is also grid tied via a Trace SW4024 inverter.  That system is battery based and I have a few turbines connected to the battery bank at any given time.  The turbines that have been in it for the "long haul" on the  battery system include a Bergey XL.1 and an Air 403.  Also connected are 2 Kyocera KC120 PV's.  Usually, I have at least 1 other wind machine that I'm tinkering with that can get tied into the battery based system as well.  Right now the "tinker" machine is an circa 1970's 450 watt Winco Wincharger that may get thrown into the mix if I get it done before winter.  The Ventera is a system all of it's own and is direct grid tie (no batteries) via the synchronous inverter and is a completely separate and independent system of the other turbines I have flying.

"the VT10 only lists a 5 year warranty.  The similar Bergey is guaranteed for 10.  Even if you believe the 30-year prediction"
Honestly, after servicing and maintaining wind turbines as a career for over 15 years now, I don't think there's any lifespan that can be designated to ANY wind turbine.  They all can be repaired no matter how badly they're damaged.  It's just a matter of how much time and $ you want to put into it.  Will the Ventera run for 30 years without any hiccups? Never.  Will a Bergey?  Never.  Homebuilt? Never.  They all are machinery and will need some form of attention and repairs at some time.  How frequently they will need that attention and to what degree of repairs will be needed, I feel are strictly related to how hard the equipment is worked, what kind of environment it has to live with and how well the turbine was designed for both.  I do not believe, for one second, that there's a wind genny out there that will run for 30 years without at least one problem.  Just my 2 cents....

"Is there much of a seam or a gap when the blade tips is pitched 0 degrees relative to the root?"
The seam / gap between the blade portions on the Ventera blades is very minimal.  Maybe about 1/16", but yes, there is a small gap.  This is present regardless if the tip is pitched or not.

"When you get it back together, would you be kind enough to feel for any "free play" in the pitch mechanism?  For my curiosity or for your own peace of mind, as you like."
From my experience with setting this machine up several times, there is no "free play" or slop in the pitching mech.  After the blades are installed in the hub sockets and the pitch rod is connected to the flyweight linkage, there is a procedure for adjusting the linkages so that all 3 blade tips are under an equal pre-tension and to ensure that all 3 move precisely the same distance at the same time.  It's a very simple process, but somewhat difficult to put into words.  Long story short, there's not much, if any, play in the pitch system when it's set up correctly.

Thanks for the interest!  It's been fun posting the progress here.

Corey

Darren73

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2014, 07:39:44 AM »
Hi Corey,

Thanks for the insight into the unit, it is difficult to get an apreciation of the scale of the generator head from the photos, would it be possible to provide some ballpark dimensions to feed my curiosoty (and no doubt some others here too).

Many thanks and keep up the good work :-)

Darren

SparWeb

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2014, 02:01:07 AM »
Corey,
Thanks again for so much detail in your responses.
Just one more, please: Do you use the lattice tower or the hinged mono-pole?
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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CBabcock

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2014, 07:16:40 PM »
Hi Darren,
The alternator is approximately 21 to 22 inches in diameter and the centerline of the blade hub is about 2.5 feet from the tower mount.  The picture below shows the machine with a soda can sitting on the floor next to it.  The entire thing weighs about 500-600 lbs.
8322-0


Hi Spar,
I have the lattice tower for my machine.  It's a 70' Rohn SSV freestanding.  The hinged monopoles were not an option when I got the turbine quite some time ago.  The SSV is a really nice tower.  The only drawback is that Ventera added a pipe adapter to the top to reduce the amount of blade noise when the blades travel through the "tower wash" (this is a downwind machine).  I helped Elliott Bayly install his prototype of this machine on a 3 legged freestanding tower that he designed and had made locally.  The turbine created a considerable amount of blade noise that sounded like a helicopter due to the blades running through the turbulent air created by the tower itself.  The top 10 feet was eventually modified to be 5" pipe to reduce the tower top surface area and it very greatly reduced the noise.  So, being that the top 10' of the tower is pipe, there's no way to fully climb the tower and access the turbine.  I plan on rigging up a set of brackets to my tower to allow a chain fall to be attached to the bottom of the pipe as well as somewhere on the SSV and be able to lower the pipe and turbine vertically until it can be reached from the top of the climbable portion of the tower.  Otherwise with the SSV tower in this configuration, you're pretty much on the hook for bringing in a crane and lowering the entire tower any time you need to access the turbine.  AKA=Expensive Fast.

Corey

SparWeb

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2014, 12:43:34 AM »
Hi
I once saw a SSV converted to allow tilt-down lowering, but it was a pretty fundamental change at the base that wouldn't be easy as a retro-fit. 
The chain hoist would be easier, as long as it's got the mechanical advantage to work while you're hanging in a harness.
Maybe a worm-gear winch would be appropriate, too.  A 20:1 ratio would raise the 10' pole in about 1 minute of cranking. It could be left up there, mounted on a frame between the tower legs.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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Mary B

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2014, 04:57:26 PM »
I saw an SSV where they added a hinge to the center with a back stay similar to what is used on the Rohn 25/45/55 tilt over for lowering it. All homemade but it worked well. Not sure it could handle that heavy of a tower top load though!

Windy11

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2014, 09:37:18 PM »
Hey, the "Coke" can in the last photo really helped out to get a grip on the size of that thing!
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SparWeb

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2014, 08:35:42 PM »
Yes the knowledge that the VT-10 is a 10kW machine vs. the appearance of the parts in the earlier photos set up a conflict in my mind, too.  It has to be bigger than that!   ... yes indeed it is.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
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CBabcock

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2014, 06:12:34 PM »
I'm glad that the Diet Coke can gave a bit of a sense of size of this machine.  Photos can be misleading at times without actually seeing the equipment first-hand.

I'm still waiting on a date from the local crane guys as to when they can get out here to lower my tower so I can get the turbine installed.  Been waiting for over 4 weeks now with a couple false alarms that they were going to make it out.  The last month's winds have been next to nothing and the weather has been great, so they have been very busy with higher priorities and that's ok.  I can wait as they are pretty economical and are only 10 miles out.  The next closest crane is about 60 miles away and it adds up when the meter starts running the second they leave their driveway and doesn't stop until they return.  I did manage to get the inverter re-installed and ready to go so whenever I can get the turbine mounted on the tower, we'll be ready to start pumping some electrons.  I'll be sure to get some pictures of the turbine re-install and share when it's completed.

Corey

CBabcock

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2014, 07:56:55 PM »
Well, at long last, I got the tower lowered this past Friday evening.  I managed to remove the remnants of a very short lived Bergey XL.1 that took a swan dive off the tower when the yaw shaft failed in a blizzard packing nearly 90+ mph winds this past winter.  I had removed the lower pipe clamp and slid the pipe up an additional 5 feet to gain any extra height available when I had the XL.1 installed, so that needed to get put back where it was with this much larger machine and needs the additional rigidity.  Doing so took a bit of extra time as I had to then re-center the pipe in the tower after loosening all of the mounting hardware, but it had to be done.

Today with the help of a friend, we got the turbine installed back on the tower.  I didn't get to take any pics of the actual install as it was just one of those days where you swear you should just stop what your doing, set your tools down, walk away and come back another time.  Nothing seemed to want to go right at first.  Eventually, things did start going well and we got the turbine installed on the tower, blades installed and got the flyball governor "set".  I just need to finish wiring the turbine power leads to the tower wiring and re-connect the anemometer and it will be ready to raise back in the air.

I am thinking of fabbing up a "climbing stick" of sorts that would be mounted to the top of the SSV tower leg and extend up to just below the turbine and attach to the pipe in some manner.  Almost an extension of the SSV leg it'self.  Not being able to access the machine without lowering the tower is a huge negative.  I'm sure I'll come up with something.

Corey

gww

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2014, 09:18:37 PM »
I like your project and hope it works out well for you.  I don't see a jen pole.  Did you use a crane to lower it?  I have a lattice tower.  It is pretty heavy.  Could you tell me what the base is on yours?  Also if you didn't use a crane, how did you lower it and how will you raise it?  That is what I am most interested in.

Since you have previous experience with this turbine,  How do you like down wind?
Thanks
gww

gww

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2014, 09:37:44 PM »
I feel like an idiot, I missed the part of your post where you were waiting on a crane.
gww

kitestrings

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2014, 08:49:24 PM »
It looks surprisingly smaller with the tower in the tower in the frame.  Initially I was thinking just the opposite - from the original pictures - I realized this was much larger unit than I'd pictured.  The coke can helped for context.  What's it weigh?

Regarding the "climbing stick" and access to the top, this is what I recently came up with (near the bottom).  I used some heavy walled aluminum C-channel.  Planning to raise them as needed and take them down when not:

http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,148058.54.html

Good luck with the tower raising.  ~ks

aringer

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2014, 09:30:09 PM »
Hey Corey, glad to see you're getting your Ventera back up and running.  I think we corresponded back when Elliott was still around.  Anyway, we just picked up our Ventera from Bill at the shop in Duluth after having some warranty work done, along with new upgrades.  It runs great, and the governor works smoother.  Ours is on a guyed tower with gin pole so we can raise and lower it pretty easily.  We were going to hook up PV panels to the Novalek inverter, but Bill says there have been  problems with the inverter being able to handle sunny, windy days, when the inverter wants to trip out, so we put up a 3.2KW ground mount solar array on a separate inverter; also works great.  Good luck.

jwoods

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2014, 08:33:33 AM »
--- POST REMOVED BY MODS ---


Since I saw no log in from jwoods, I have decided to not waste any more time and have remove this slam.
I've also locked this person's ability to even come visit.


--- POST REMOVED BY MODS ---
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 06:17:20 PM by DamonHD »

Bruce S

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2014, 02:57:21 PM »
---BEGIN GM MODE---
jwoods;
Before I completely nuke your post and possibly put you in read only.
I need you to respond directly to my post here.
EXPLAIN why you went after this guy on this forum !! I read his entire post and see NO WHERE in any of his posting where he slammed or even spoke harshly about the equipment.
His posts have been about the rebuild ,and honestly his replies to other have mostly been positive.
I could care less about a blog somewhere else >:(, so DO NOT post links to one.
You have 24 hours to respond or post an apology !!
Otherwise your post and ability to post will disappear.
---END GM MODE---

All;
I am sure or hope everyone else will understand why I have posted this demand.
Bruce S

 
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

clockmanFRA

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2014, 03:34:48 AM »
I do not often remark on others post, but I did think that the arrogant and condescending post by 'jwoods' about this '10 kW Ventera Rebuild' was a bit rich by a Company, I assume he/she speaks for the Company.

Makes me very concerned about recommending Ventera in Europe.
Everything is possible, just give me time.

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Mary B

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2014, 03:46:53 PM »
I was looking at Ventura as a possible install. Scratch that. How to damage your reputation in one easy lesson...

CBabcock

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2014, 05:53:47 PM »
Woahhh- I missed something here....

DamonHD

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Re: 10 kW Ventera Rebuild
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2014, 06:18:22 PM »
Nothing to see here (certainly in the way of good customer relations and making new friends); move along please...  %^P

Rgds

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