Author Topic: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project  (Read 73895 times)

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george65

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #162 on: December 31, 2016, 06:01:49 PM »
You certainly have more patience than I but can't say more than that for fear of being chastised for being " Political".

How much to you envisage this project saving you on power a year and what do you estimate the payback time on your investment?

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #163 on: January 02, 2017, 12:29:34 PM »
I'll have a better idea of the payback once I get it into the water and see how it works. I'm pretty sure I'll cover my own electrical needs. How much I'll export is the question.

andreiandrei53

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #164 on: June 27, 2017, 06:32:48 AM »
Hello Skid,

Any news regarding your project? The time really passes and i'd love to hear more recent news  :)

Cheers,

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #165 on: June 30, 2017, 04:49:05 PM »
It's been a while, but I have some good news. The gov't regulators gave me the go ahead to install the wheel. The problem is they gave it to me too late in the spring and now the freshet is on with river levels so high I can't install my foundation. Once the freshet subsides, hopefully in a month or so, I'll complete the foundation and install the wheel.

It's unfortunate as river flows are high and steady and I could probably be making full production right now.

I still have a couple of things to complete. The hydraulic system for one which will take me a day, and the final underground splice on my power cable from the river to my house. I'm watching ebay for a 6 AWG armored cable kit so I don't have to pay retail for one. I hope to have those completed in July.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #166 on: June 30, 2017, 05:00:36 PM »
The other good news for me is that the regulator has reclassified this project as a commercial project instead of a home generation project. Amazingly this will cost me only $105 in annual water license fees instead of the $1500 I was facing before. This may help return the cost of this before I die ::)

george65

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #167 on: June 30, 2017, 09:13:47 PM »

I don't understand how a commercial classification can be cheaper than a domestic one but I am glad their stupidity has finally turned in your favour.
The whole thing of charging you for using the water was ridiculous to start with.  They will come up with any BS to get money no matter how illogical the reasoning.

I look forward to seeing further updates and some vids of the thing when it is running.

Bruce S

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #168 on: July 03, 2017, 07:32:11 AM »
skid;
You might go looking for Welder's cable.

There have been many posts on here about using that with 1/2 the costs, and same power handling abilities ;-)

Very nice project ! I look forward to the next set of posts too.
Bruce S
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skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #169 on: July 06, 2017, 09:44:25 PM »
skid;
You might go looking for Welder's cable.

There have been many posts on here about using that with 1/2 the costs, and same power handling abilities ;-)

Very nice project ! I look forward to the next set of posts too.
Bruce S

Thanks Bruce,

I have enough cable, it's just that because of the total length (around 200 Meters), I have to install a couple of splices. I got the cable for free - three ~75 meter pieces left over from a underground power line project from work.

It's actually a bit of overkill as it is 5kv rated armored wire, and the Raychem splice kits are expensive if I buy retail. I've installed one already and just bought one from ebay for $100 so I'm good to go now.

I was going to mount the hydraulics that raise and lower the wheel on the water wheel frame, but have now decided to mount the hydraulic pump/battery and solar panel remotely on a nearby panel and run longer hoses to the hydraulic ram on the frame.

In addition I'm going to install 3 voltage/amperage gauges with CT's to measure amperage and voltage on each phase in the same panel so I can optimize the depth of the wheel for maximum output when testing and when river levels change. I've got an outdoor rated enclosure, and just have to install the components and make a frame to mount it on.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #170 on: July 12, 2017, 07:57:54 PM »
Earlier this week I had an excavator clear a path to the river to allow cement trucks to get to the site to pour the concrete and to allow moving the works to install once the foundation is complete. One of the conditions of the water license was getting a professional engineer to design the foundation. The foundation will require about 14 cubic meters of concrete (3x3x1.5 meters) which is about two trucks worth, and will be keyed into the river bank as originally planned.

Today I started to mock up the hydraulics for raising/lowering the wheel. I am repurposing a nice water tight electrical enclosure for the hydraulic motor/reservoir, the battery and solar panel, as well as the electronics that will measure the output of the generator. I'm still waiting for my ammeters from ebay but can mount the motor/reservoir and battery as well as the hard piping. It will be a little tight, and if I have to add oil I will need to use a syringe as the fill cap will be right at the top. This is the only way I can get it to work and the enclosure was free.

 

Mary B

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #171 on: July 13, 2017, 05:50:32 PM »
Plumb a fill cap onto the top of the enclosure. Use a fitting with rubber gaskets so it doesn't let water in.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #172 on: July 22, 2017, 11:35:20 AM »
Received my splice kit from ebay yesterday. Missing a key piece of course. Have contacted the seller so hopefully can get the right piece sent so I can complete the splice. Still waiting for my ammeters so I can complete my remote mounted enclosure. I've welded supports and mounted the pump and battery and most of the hard piping on the panel that gets installed in the enclosure.

Mary, Regarding cutting a hole in the top of the enclosure, I'll use a mechanic's syringe that are used to add oil to differentials and such.

Pic of the panel so far:




skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #173 on: August 16, 2017, 03:07:37 PM »
Completed the last splice today. Organizing an excavator to dig into the riverbank. Finishing up my control skid as well. Getting closer...


skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #174 on: August 25, 2017, 08:40:21 PM »
River bank is now excavated. The foundation is now to be 10'L x 10'W x5'T as designed by the engineer. There will be approx. 75000 pounds of concrete. So much for disturbing the river bank as little as possible. It is what the gov't wanted though, and I don't believe I will have any issues due to the size of foundation.

I've started building the forms, and have received 1000 feet of 20mm rebar. Once the forms are complete, I'll build the rebar cage. The engineer spec'ed the rebar mat to be every 10 inches Length x Width x Sides.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #175 on: August 25, 2017, 09:02:47 PM »
While I had the excavator handy I had him move the water wheel assembly close to the river. Now I don't have to worry about my wife driving into it ;D

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #176 on: August 28, 2017, 02:14:27 PM »
Forms are mostly up. I'll do more reinforcing as I am concerned with the river side of the forms. The other 3 sides can be backfilled  a bit to support the forms but the river side cannot. The back corners are chamfered to clear the counter weight.

I'll use some heavy stainless wire to go from one side of the form to the other to help prevent the river side form from failing.When I pour the concrete I will also order a low slump mix and do small lifts at a time, and not go crazy with the vibrator.

Now to start cutting rebar...

MattM

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #177 on: August 28, 2017, 06:28:48 PM »
If want to skin it, now is the time.  Some materials like beaded foam (EPS) sticks rather well to concrete.  You can use it like drivit to put a pretty pebble-faced exterior facing out and adhere it to the inside of your pour.  If done in panels you can move them easy enough.  The best part, the exterior sides can be made waterproof.  Looks much prettier than concrete.

Are you driving pilings to keep it from moving off the bank?  The mass of the wheel and the water's inertia is going to shift it over time.  Pilings and anchor wires/chains back to the shore bank I'm assuming are in your plans.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #178 on: August 28, 2017, 11:15:15 PM »
Are you driving pilings to keep it from moving off the bank?  The mass of the wheel and the water's inertia is going to shift it over time.  Pilings and anchor wires/chains back to the shore bank I'm assuming are in your plans.

No pilings or other anchors. It will be keyed into the river bank  on the up hill side and the sides. The river bank is mostly large rocks tightly packed with dirt and tree roots.  At 10 feet square and five feet high with a weight of 75000 pounds I don't think it will go anywhere.

 In a couple years after back filling the tree roots will wrap around the foundation and help hold it in place (I'll throw some fertilizer in the back fill to encourage this). Even the 320 Cat excavator had to work at digging the foundation trying to break through the tree roots and tightly packed rocks.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #179 on: September 11, 2017, 01:13:21 PM »
The pipe that supports everything will be embedded in the concrete foundation with only 4 inches below the pipe flange exposed. I'll also fill it with concrete when I do the pour.

The engineer has specified that anti rotation rebar pins be welded into place. Now to install it into the form...


skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #180 on: September 11, 2017, 08:11:12 PM »
Used my tractor to drop the stand pipe in the forms. It just barely reached into the form with the boom pole I have attached to my tractor bucket. Wrestled the heavy pipe into position, leveled it, adjusted elevation, and trapped it in place with the 2x4's. Everything's hard when you do it by yourself...


skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #181 on: September 15, 2017, 07:32:47 PM »
Rebar is now complete. I welded all the places where the rebar crossed so it is very rigid. The pipe stand is plumb as well.

I'll try to organize concrete for next week. I don't want to wait too long and have the river come up like last time.

« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 07:42:50 PM by skid »

george65

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #182 on: September 15, 2017, 11:50:29 PM »

The time, effort and obviously money you are putting into this is amazing.  More like a small commercial construction than a DIY.

You should in all seriousness, you should get a brass plaque made to go onto the thing. It's going to outlast you even if you are in your 20's and future generations might just like to know something about this.
After everything else you are putting into it, a brass plaque would be a nice finishing touch and well worthy of such a construction. Might be good to give the local historical society some pics and info on the build. In years to come who knows, Might be some sort of landmark or point of interest in your area.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #183 on: September 18, 2017, 10:38:06 PM »
George - What started out as a fairly simple idea has grown into a bit of a monster. My professional back ground is in the hydro industry so that probably influenced the way things have turned out. I suspect it will become a landmark on the Cheakamus river as the river is heavily used by kayakers and rafters.


 

george65

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #184 on: September 19, 2017, 05:19:33 AM »
I suspect it will become a landmark on the Cheakamus river as the river is heavily used by kayakers and rafters.

*sniff*

I have a background in sales, marketing and business.
I smell opportunity!

Put in a floating dock, build a cafe, power it from the wheel and promote the ship out of that and you can have all those Kayackers dropping in for a renewable brewed double decaff latte' on their trip.  Make it a stop off for the modern hippy travelers in their EV's and charge for topping them up with clean power. Put sprouts and vegetable juice on the menu and you are there.

Put in a motel while you are it and this thing can really start to pay off even if it only then generates a fraction of the power you will then need.
The greenies love to blow everything out of proportion so you'll just be catering to the market demand.  ;D


Bruce S

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #185 on: September 19, 2017, 06:51:28 AM »

Put in a floating dock, build a cafe, power it from the wheel and promote the ship out of that and you can have all those Kayackers dropping in for a renewable brewed double decaff latte' on their trip.  Make it a stop off for the modern hippy travelers in their EV's and charge for topping them up with clean power. Put sprouts and vegetable juice on the menu and you are there.

Put in a motel while you are it and this thing can really start to pay off even if it only then generates a fraction of the power you will then need.
The greenies love to blow everything out of proportion so you'll just be catering to the market demand.  ;D
Not sure about the "greenies" in your part of the world, but our kayakers bring their own food/coffee and tents. they use hand built mini-rocket stoves or Alky burners that were built out of tuna tins or cola cans and weigh 1/5 what they can find in a store and burn cleaner(using twigs or rubbing Alky. (I have an Alky one )

The last thing our kayaking "greenies" want is a motel or someone brewing swill and would pay to keep that beautiful spot just the way it is.  (The hiking "greenies" do this on our Katie trail (which spans our cute little state ~250 miles)

A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

george65

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #186 on: September 19, 2017, 02:28:17 PM »

You must have the real explorer types.
Here we have loads of the yuppie type. Drive their V8 Suv with the kayaks on top from their inner city apartments to explore the outdoors and nature.
Double decaff Latte's and worm comfy beds with aircon and hot showers would have a HUGE market here and are exactly what a lot of tourist places offer and do well with.

Like  a lot of the save the planet types.
You don't actually have to be DOING anything effective, just buy the green products, make a fuss and say you are and it's all good!

Mary B

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #187 on: September 19, 2017, 06:10:19 PM »
Bet they would stop for a home brewed ale!

Bruce S

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #188 on: September 19, 2017, 09:03:34 PM »
Bet they would stop for a home brewed ale!
I certainly would  ;D.
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