Author Topic: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project  (Read 66938 times)

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SparWeb

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #216 on: October 03, 2017, 08:24:26 PM »
Damon, I ain't greedy.  I'm jealous!

Skid, c'mon give'er! 
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, regulated by Xantrex C40, DIY 8ft diameter wind turbine, regulated by Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024

MattM

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #217 on: October 05, 2017, 04:55:16 AM »
So when trenching that rocky soil do you use an air tool to dislodge the soil then loosen the rocks and hand move each one?

I'm curious because it likely is not just a simple task to trench in that location.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #218 on: October 05, 2017, 09:58:54 PM »
So when trenching that rocky soil do you use an air tool to dislodge the soil then loosen the rocks and hand move each one?

I'm curious because it likely is not just a simple task to trench in that location.

I used a trenching machine to get close to the river bank as my soil is very sandy loam. Once I got within  30 feet or so of the river it became extremely rocky. I'm started digging the final section now and it is very tough going because of the rocks. I'm using a pick, a trenching shovel, and a 5 foot steel pry bar. It's quite a work out as some of the rocks are really wedged in there and weigh upwards of 300 pounds. If my buddy showed up with his little excavator I'd let him do it...

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #219 on: October 06, 2017, 09:13:06 PM »
Here ya go Sparweb!

Another short video of me lowering the waterwheel into the water with a few different angles as well. I've created a Youtube channel for this.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPfjoAQxvcQ

I'll create a few more videos as I get everything commissioned and tested.

Fordguy64

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #220 on: October 06, 2017, 09:17:49 PM »
THAT is so sexy...  8)

hiker

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #221 on: October 07, 2017, 10:15:11 AM »
How's the tork on that..perhaps a bigger pully on the wheel..any readings yet ( volts ) ? Looks great.
WILD in ALASKA

keithturtle

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #222 on: October 07, 2017, 08:16:56 PM »
Mr Davids is a killjoy with his comments.  Great to see you've completed this phase; now on the the next

Turtle
soli deo gloria

SparWeb

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #223 on: October 07, 2017, 09:31:01 PM »
Yeah, NEVER read the comments on Youtube.
The comments here are enough!

Thanks for letting us see the "dry run"...  so to speak...

Of course, you're tossing around words like "commissioned" so you must be some kind of eggineer who takes his time to do it right and all. 
Looking forward to a proper immersion of the blades in the water and getting the true measure of the machine.  Happy to see it going so well so far.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, regulated by Xantrex C40, DIY 8ft diameter wind turbine, regulated by Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024

Mary B

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #224 on: October 07, 2017, 09:34:09 PM »
That thing is awesome! One of th emost ambitious projects here since the guy who designed and built his own oil bath chain drive gear case.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #225 on: October 17, 2017, 12:18:14 PM »
Did some testing today. Making between 600-900 watts inverter output as the digital meter on the inverter is bouncing around a bit. The flows in the river are just slightly above the yearly lows according to the gov't river gauges so this is likely slightly above the minimum outputs I can expect to achieve.

I've got the wheel as low as it goes into the river. The water level is about 3/4 up the blade outside sidewalls currently.

I may have to adjust the ram pins so it can lower the wheel even further as the more submerged it is the more power it makes so far.

The forecast is for rain so the river level and flow speed should increase. We'll see where it goes...

george65

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #226 on: October 17, 2017, 03:35:25 PM »

What will allow the wheel to generate the target 5Kw? Is it the height of the river or the speed?  From the vid it's hard to imagine the thing flowing even 3 times faster as from where I am, that's a pretty fast flowing river already!

There are always the armchair critics on YT. You can bet the less they have actually got off their useless arses and done themselves, the more critical and full of it they are. Like the seagull on your vid that wants to $#|+ on everything, when called out they get all indignant and claim the moral high ground.
 Wait till you start getting all the infernal and moronic "safety" comments.  The pet carry on of those that have no clue about the subject of the vid but want to say something anyway ( even if 20 other morons have said it before) and make themselves look important by parroting what they have seen other useless twits carry on with elsewhere.

Wish it would rain here. Haven't seen anything other than a heavy dew in at least 4 months.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #227 on: October 17, 2017, 08:57:00 PM »
George, the river can really get moving. Right now it is quite slow compared to when it gets higher. For every foot per second increase the power goes up dramatically so it doesn't have to flow 3 times as fast. 10-30% faster doubles/triples/quadruples the output (proportional to the stream velocity raised to the fifth power if that makes any sense to you).

What I find interesting is that the wheel likes to be submerged. I'll experiment with this, but need to drill a new hole for the hydraulic ram pin so I can push the wheel further into the water.

Depending on how things go I can also increase the blade size and width. I can extend the blades another two feet in diameter and another foot wider as I left room for that in the design. I just didn't know what to expect.

 Considering that low flows like I am getting currently are typical for 4-5 months of the year (See attached river chart) I may opt to increase blade size/diameter as aluminum plate is relatively inexpensive and my time is free. We'll see how things develop...




george65

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #228 on: October 17, 2017, 10:13:08 PM »
10-30% faster doubles/triples/quadruples the output (proportional to the stream velocity raised to the fifth power if that makes any sense to you).

Very interesting, I couldn't imagine it flowing proportionally faster as in 2-5X but 10-30% is a whole different thing that makes a lot of difference apparently.

Quote

Depending on how things go I can also increase the blade size and width. I can extend the blades another two feet in diameter and another foot wider as I left room for that in the design. I just didn't know what to expect.

I was wondering about width but thought that would give torque which you would have to change the gearing of the wheel to take advantage of.
If the flow you are seeing is going to be the average for 5 months of the year, would seem the time to swap cogs may  would be a little time well spent.
That's a LOT of work/ investment you have made for 900W, 22Kwh day.
I made 23 Kwh yesterday with my $1500 worth of inverters and solar panels, half of which are still lying flat on the grass as I haven't got them on the roof yet and the others are leaning against a makeshift frame of scaffold. 

You deserve a lot better returns than 900W after all the time, effort and cost that has gone into this project.  A little tweaking may go a long way.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #229 on: October 17, 2017, 11:20:01 PM »
Back in post 141 I mentioned that I should have went solar :'(

I also mentioned I hope to average 2kw over a year which should be doable based upon the outputs at low flows.

I'll find that out soon as the rainy season is starting for the next couple of months.

I'll see how things go and experiment with the wheel depth a bit. If I can average 2kw year-round I'll be where I expected to be.
 


george65

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #230 on: October 18, 2017, 01:34:48 AM »

Bah!!

Any Muppet can have solar, but to have what you do, that's REALLY cool and unique! I would really love to have a hydro setup but in practicability, I can't see that I ever will.

Seems the real hard work is done now and with just a little tweaking/ tuning, your wheel should be able to provide power well beyond your goal.  Now you get to do the fun part and see what really works for the thing and have some interesting learning experiences.
I'll bet a few little tweaks and improvements now will make a lot of difference to your output.

Certainly one of the best DIY projects I have ever seen!