Author Topic: GE ECM motor to generator questions  (Read 12414 times)

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Rwcookie

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GE ECM motor to generator questions
« on: November 18, 2014, 12:32:36 AM »
I have several GE ECM motors and have tried to rewire (Jerry rigged) but I don't seem to get the out-put from them. I had a prototype lenz2 vawt up and running mounted direct drive, it would turn great but I didn't get any amps out of it maybe 3 amps at 12volts, 200-300 rpm. I'm not positive if I have the rewire correct, I could not find a good diagram of the jerry rig. Do the ECM's need more RPM?

Mary B

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2014, 03:07:44 AM »
ECM I have needed 900rpm from my cordless drill to light a 120v light bulb(60 watts), added another bulb and it started to cog pretty bad. Suspect you will have to gear it up.

dgeneral02

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2014, 05:33:35 AM »
Can you post motor specs here? Why not try a HAWT instead?
Peter Anongo

Rwcookie

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2014, 10:00:30 AM »
I was afraid I would need to gear it up for a vawt application... As far as just building a hawt I like some of the characteristics of the vawt... I live in northern Wyoming, there is an abundance of wind. We see 20-30 mph winds weekly if not 1\3 of the time with winds gusting up to 40-50 mph monthly. I feel the vawt which inherently turns slower can handle the high gusting winds better. My mounting system came loose on my prototype vawt in a 65 mph gust and it self distructed, I have a 2nd generation design under construction. I may end up building a low rpm generator for the vawt and using the ecm's for a hawt.
Thank you for your thoughts!!

dgeneral02

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2014, 11:53:59 AM »
If you are scared of a HAWT spinning and reaching self destruct then you can build a HAWT with furling mechanism similar to Hugh Piggot's design. Have you looked at the name stickers on those motors to know their specs?
Peter Anongo

Rwcookie

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2014, 12:09:44 PM »
I apologize,you asked for the motor specs once already.. These are GE ECM motors, 1 HP, they are listed as single phase but have 18 coils and appear to be wired 3 phase, 120\240 volt, they don't list a rated rpm. What other details do you need?? I know just enough about this to love it!! I have been blessed with several of these at minimal cost so I would really like to make them work..
I appreciate any guidance anyone can provide...

Rwcookie

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2014, 12:23:10 PM »
I need to read the questions better so I can answer them all in the same post... Sigh... I under stand the various furling systems and such to keep the rpm's down, I just really like the vawt's more than the hawt's, much quieter and they don't have to rotate into the wind. It may also have to do with not cutting the blades, I work metal much better than wood... I would post pics of my prototype but I haven't figured that part out just yet..:))

JW

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2014, 06:23:17 PM »
Some pictures would be nice.

Rwcookie

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2014, 11:18:49 PM »
Here are a couple of pics of my first shot at building a Lenz 2 VAWT... It started out as a 3'x3' version, I wasn't happy with my rpm's so I cut it down to 2' and then to 12"... Rpm came up considerably but generator output was still dismal. I was using a 1 hp GM ECM without any wiring mods other than to isolate each phase and rectify each separately. which brings us to the reason for this post..:)) I did not scale the blades with each reduction in diameter but I am building one that is to scale currently..

electrondady1

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2014, 08:18:11 AM »
i like vertical mills  they suit my location. ed's design is a lift/drag combo vertical . using an open center . by pulling the wings in to a 12" dia . you may be choking it .
i think 300 rpm is about top speed.
that does seem like few amps for that speed .
36 watts , i think ed was getting better than that with his 8" dual rotor axial flux design.
if you go that route use his wedge shaped  mags. i t makes a difference.
you appear to be a good builder . consider using multiple mills and combining the output after rectifying. i can't recall Jerry building a ecm based alternator.

here is a power calculator

http://usvawt.com/cgi/altoutput.cgi?altpass=1;alt=35;rpm=210;ocv=27;phr=4;dist=2;distunit=0.3048;wiresize=14;wirestd=0;runtype=1;recttype=0;loadpass=1;load=6;minv=24;maxv=100;loadr=4;ilim=30;loadpass2=1;minrpm=200;maxrpm=450;Next=Next


http://www.usvawt.com/cgi/windpower.cgi
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 08:22:48 AM by electrondady1 »

Rwcookie

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2014, 09:58:43 AM »
Thank you for your reply.. I found a set of formulas for the Lenz2 that allows you to calculate the size of the wings for a given diameter so I don't believe I will choke it as such..?? I have been researching this for several years on and off, somewhere I recall Jerry did some testing with the ECM's and was wiring the coils in a way that produced better at low rpm.. that is what I was looking for.. I did find where ghurd had discussed spliting each phase into 3 sets of 2 coils in parallel then rectify each phase. I am not sure if that means leaving each set of coils linked together (factory) and then linking them in parallel. I believe the original discussion I had found was from quite awhile back like 2004-2006 ish... maybe my mind is playing games again....

dgeneral02

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2014, 12:17:08 PM »
Why not hook a tach to your motor and spin with a drill to know what speed it needs to make enough voltage for battery charging? Those motors look like nice motors to play with. So unfortunate we don't have them around here. You did a very neat work there.
Peter Anongo

hiker

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2014, 12:26:48 PM »
heres 59 pages of -JERRYS posts--i searched for JERRY in the search for members section--lots of info---miss that guy..........
   HEY jerry where are you  ????????????????
   
http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=90
WILD in ALASKA

hiker

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2014, 12:38:28 PM »
http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=253

ZUBBLIES----posts...

just click on the subject --next to the big number at the top of each post to get the whole story...
not sure if there all complet with picts. or not................................................
WILD in ALASKA

Rwcookie

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2014, 11:00:42 PM »
Lots to sort through.. Thanks much!!

Rwcookie

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2014, 11:42:01 AM »
After much sorting and reading and testing it looks like using a GE ECM motor direct drive for a VAWT is not going to be very efficient...
dgeneral: I have been trying different wiring configurations then testing the ecm with a drill, tach, amp meter and a volt meter, I just cannot get it to produce usable voltage/amperage in the rpm range that is practical... (100-300 rpm range)
Electrondady: I agree that with the 300 rpm speed, I have had as high as 500 rpm but that was just one of those days we had the 40 to 60 mph gusts, I will look into the axial flux designs. Figuring the best\simplest design is the challenge, I don't have a firm grasp of all the aspects of generator design. I will look into the Ed's designs...
I have been looking for a good low rpm design but not finding many designs that show the rpm cut in and power requirements. Most conversations reference blade size for a hawt so I am not sure how to apply that to a vawt...
Thank you for all the replies, I will continue to research this!!

electrondady1

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2014, 12:09:02 PM »
ed is a great builder and used to post here quite a bit  .
his alt design is a match for his mill design .
you missed a strictly vertical forum  were ed posted all the time but it went commercial and kind of folded up after 5 years. a lot of good info got lost

Jerry used to build mostly down wind 4' dia. horizontal mills for the roof of his shop
i think they spin pretty fast . maybe that's a better  place for those ge ecm units

Bruce S

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2014, 02:59:52 PM »
Eletrondady1;
Since the VAWTs are lift/drag units and can be very good at providing torque. Wouldn't it be a usable idea for a say 2:1 gear ratio?
IF Rwcookie's unit can sustain a fairly constant 200RPM , then a pulley or gear setup that provides the 150 - 200 RPM at blade rotation speed , then it could "in Theory" provide a decent RPM for the ECM.
OF course this is discounting losses inherent with gears,pulleys, belts, etc; but in this case may be a quick viable test before re-tooling.
Just a thought

Bruce S

PS>> Ed's website is still functional windstuffnow.com and he does answer posts on here from time to time
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

electrondady1

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2014, 03:32:26 PM »
it's a worthwhile experiment.
 really don't know much about those ecm motors .
 i think they are iron core?
 the mill will remain motionless until it can overcome the cog
gizmo from the back shed used a f and p smart drive alternator

 i remember some one posting that having used an iron core motor conversion the cog resulted in a sympathetic vibration in the wings and so the big pieces of aluminum created a drumming sound. 


Mary B

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2014, 04:56:30 PM »
One option would be to rectify each phase individually then run that in series to up the voltage at the expense of amperage

After much sorting and reading and testing it looks like using a GE ECM motor direct drive for a VAWT is not going to be very efficient...
dgeneral: I have been trying different wiring configurations then testing the ecm with a drill, tach, amp meter and a volt meter, I just cannot get it to produce usable voltage/amperage in the rpm range that is practical... (100-300 rpm range)
Electrondady: I agree that with the 300 rpm speed, I have had as high as 500 rpm but that was just one of those days we had the 40 to 60 mph gusts, I will look into the axial flux designs. Figuring the best\simplest design is the challenge, I don't have a firm grasp of all the aspects of generator design. I will look into the Ed's designs...
I have been looking for a good low rpm design but not finding many designs that show the rpm cut in and power requirements. Most conversations reference blade size for a hawt so I am not sure how to apply that to a vawt...
Thank you for all the replies, I will continue to research this!!

Rwcookie

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2014, 10:25:39 PM »
Mary B that is what I was attempting to do but I couldn't get my voltage until 500 rpm... I don't fully comprehend the voltage- coil- rpm relationship, much less the various coil wiring possibilities... I understand electrical and to a lesser extent most electronics, this motor and windings is new ground.. Give me a diagram or picture and I can build most things, that's where I am stuck currently... I have everything to put together to build a direct mount on an ECM motor, to build a belt or chain drive I can do, just have to shift my plans and find materials...

Bub73

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2014, 01:43:05 PM »
Hi  Rwcookie;

  You have to open the star point and rectify each phase separately; then combine the dc output either series or parallel as Mary pointed out .

 I found this old photo of possible combinations by someone else maybe it will help.

 Bob

« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 01:47:18 PM by Bub73 »

Rwcookie

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2014, 08:57:28 PM »
Thank you Bob... I have tried those configurations but it helps to see a clear drawing of them... I have given up on the ECM for my vawt application... It seems I need cut in before 100 rpm and it's just not feasible with the ECM,s...
Shifting gears....  Anybody have a good design for a 10" axial flux generator, for a 12 volt system with cut in around 75-100rpm?? :))

Jgarfield

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2015, 11:09:37 AM »
I know this subject is a little old but i have solved the low wind speed problem and currently putting the supporting electronics together to provide switching and speed measurements RPM. I have a half dozen 1hp GE ECM motors on hand and limited area for a wind gen. ok on to the solve.
9055-0

By splitting up the phases you end up with 6 leads (3x phases) i select one of them (usually #1) and tap it after the 3rd coil in that phase. I felt that i would rather produce a trickle at low wind speeds rather than NONE.. so by using a simple solid state relay i also get from salvaged HVAC systems i can disconnect the other 2 phases reducing the cogging on the motor and produce off of one phase or even at half that phase. The supporting circuitry will measure the voltage output of the 1/2 phase output to get the RPM. My first wind gen will be using solid core industrial grade outdoor network 20ga wire to carry the 7 output wires from the wind gen inside the house. I might take the 8th wire in the cable to tap 1 coil for my wind speed calculations.
9056-1
9057-2

« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 11:15:09 AM by Jgarfield »

dave ames

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Re: GE ECM motor to generator questions
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2015, 01:14:04 AM »

Hi Jgarfield,

Welcome to the forums! It's been about 30 days since your first post..and wonder how you're getting on?

Have you revised your thinking on how these moving magnetic machines operate?


Regards, dave