Author Topic: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP  (Read 18696 times)

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fabieville

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Has anyone try the new power jack mppt charge controller.
Here is the specs: 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP.
I see it on ebay selling for just $99.99 that is so cheap for a good mppt charge controller. I am wondering if its a good buy. What do you think?
Go to the link below to check out the specs and please advise me as to what you think.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2400w-smart-solar-controller-DC12V-24V-MPPT-100AMP-solar-panel-3-5-LCD-display/251932278179?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3Dcc49c087e863427ca378878f89fada90%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D261897094548&rt=nc

joestue

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2015, 08:26:10 PM »
I doubt anyone here has bought one yet, or they would probably have posted an article about it.

I do want to make one point clear: it is possible to build what is advertised there, for that price.
I know this because I know how much a well known 3Kw 48 volt power supply costs.. single phase 240vac input, 99% power factor and 97% efficiency. The same company offers a 2Kw supply in the same form factor that is built for direct solar panel connection (mppt, of course). I'm sure these units cost more but electrically they will have less expensive stuff than the single phase ac input version. (less capacitors on the input, lower energy stored in the boost inductor)

anyhow point being, eventually someone will build something that is cheap, efficient, and will last a long time. but Power jack is but one of those things: cheap, and will burn out if you try and make it deliver rated output.

for 100$ though i might be tempted to buy one just to see if there is any intelectual property worth stealing from it, but i don't think that is the case here lol
My wife says I'm not just a different colored rubik's cube, i am a rubik's knot in a cage.

oztules

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2015, 05:02:35 AM »
For the $100 I'd give it a try if you can't build your own.

Some of their stuff is actually amazing value, and some is ..... err... very sad......

If you want a truly powerful inverter, then their 15kw LF cards ( set for about $300 usd) just needs a massive torroid transformer built to go with it.... and you will be totally blown away .... my house runs on this... 8kw  (48vdc/ 240vac unit) cont is not a problem so far... well for the last 2 years... who knows what the future has... but I can replace it for another $300 complete. I need that for remote installations...... so you never know really know until you actually test it out... may be another gem... or a dud.

The 15kw cards run 8kw no problem, haven't loaded it up intentionally much above that, so 50% of their rated output  seems easily done in this case.. that unit???? maybe 50a...maybe 100... inclined to think 50-60 cont though..... but we won't know until some one tries it out.

Their HF stuff..... rather throw it away.

I built my 100a 48v solar controller for less than $20... but not mppt.. too much power without it already.

Power Jack have suffered some real  ( and deserved) beatings over the years, but they can't be wrong all the time, and their LF inverters seem to be fine... but gee the QC is wild.

.............oztules
Flinders Island Australia

Mary B

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2015, 06:53:15 PM »
I use their transfer switches for AC control on my computer inverter and my fridge inverter. But hard to screw up a relay and time delay circuit...

dnix71

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2015, 11:06:22 PM »
I don't see how you can input 500 amps at 12v to power this. The posts don't look big enough.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6000W-24000W-LF-Split-phase-pure-sine-power-inverter-DC12V-AC220V-110V-60HZ-15-/261888476487?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cf9c50547

24kw surge??? at 12v that's only 2000 amps. At 48v maybe. 125/500 amps is doable.

oztules

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2015, 03:56:12 AM »
Nix...
Their idea of continuous is approx 12 seconds for full rating, and about half that for longer term rating. The batt terminal are 10mm X 4...plenty for 500 amps for short periods ( 12 secs.)

The surge is very short and run by the 40000uf caps and the battery concurrently,  ( using a similar technique I can get 250000 watts out of a 12v electric fence unit for roughly 10 millionth  of a second or 9000v@30A or thereabouts)... so it can probably do it too for  1/2 a sec or less... enough to get a start on big induction motors perhaps.

I know the 15kw unit with my transformer can start a 10hp three phase motor in phase conversion duty... peaks must be huge.


Why anyone would buy one of these things@ 12v is a mystery to me.... any thing over 1 or 2kw  is best done by 48v and above.

...............oztules
Flinders Island Australia

dnix71

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2015, 02:40:13 PM »
Oz, I was thinking something like that would be interesting in a car. I have a window unit in my van. It runs from an hf inverter with a boost cap array added to the outside and a boost cap added inside the a/c unit. At 1kw continous rating I'm pushing the limits of my alternator to run a 500 watt a/c unit.

I need a bigger alternator to be able to run the vehicle lights and the a/c at night. The factory a/c on the van broke and even when it worked it caused the engine to overheat, even on the highway. The cooling system was a bad design. In the middle of the model year Ford added a small hose to the side of the lower radiator hose and bypassed the thermostat into the middle of the block to correct overheating on the inside cylinders. Even that didn't fix the problem, not enough airflow over the engine. Too much packed in tight to allow proper cooling.

The window a/c dumps it's heat out a side window, so that fixed the problem.

It would be fun to have a much larger alternator and a 3kw lf inverter. Like my parents who used to live on a trawler, they had more power away from the dock on a generator, than plugged in. I could go mobile with that much power. Put solar panels on the roof and add a couple of deep cycle batteries.

oztules

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2015, 05:44:45 PM »
I have a 6kw 48v unit I bought much earlier on for 400 dollars...It easily ran the house ( yes including the 3kw kettle) but did not have the HW hooked to it, but everything else was... and it did it no problem....( now spare sitting under the bench)
So these LF things are a surprise packet....  but so is whats inside... no two seem to be the same, and QC is slack on the cheaper auction ones...

Full thread is here: http://www.anotherpower.com/board/index.php/topic,902.0.html

They have faults and quirks, but they must have read that thread ( I know they have) and fixed most of them.. so now they are very efficient unit as well as tuff.


................oztules
Flinders Island Australia

joestue

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2015, 07:16:29 PM »
interesting... "It is interesting to note, that without the e core filter in series with the primaries of the transformers, it would not grid tie to the grid inverters... but rather, blow all the overloaders in the ac line to the inverters."

most likely too much noise at the zero crossing... what was the carrier frequency?
My wife says I'm not just a different colored rubik's cube, i am a rubik's knot in a cage.

oztules

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2015, 09:59:21 PM »
Scope setting 1us



.............oztules
Flinders Island Australia

boB

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2015, 08:02:23 PM »

WoW !  That is an nice antique scope you got there !

oztules

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2015, 10:22:32 PM »
The bloke putting the finger prints on the dirty screen surround is antique too.

My modern dual trace phillips scope has failed after only a few years, and this old girl has lasted for many decades now..... we have blown up lots of stuff together.

............oztules
Flinders Island Australia

philsbry

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2015, 07:51:36 PM »
Hi All,

I have enjoyed reading most of the topics you are involved in on this and other forums.  Out of interest I purchased one of these units and from what I can see after removing the cover, there is no inductor coil as you would expect to see in a buck / boost MPPT controller (Mech Eng here).  Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am leaning towards this being a PWM controller using an AT MEGA48PA chip. 

Philip.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 08:04:02 PM by philsbry »

dnix71

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2015, 10:08:35 PM »
Hi Phil, that looks like it. I can read the number on the chip if I use the zoom tools in my browser. Those fets on the side must be igbts. It look like there is only one output driver.

What are the values on the purple automobile spade fuses? I can't read them. If those are maxi spade fuses that color should be 100 amps.

oztules

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2015, 10:26:26 PM »
It looks like they re using a fixed voltage point pwm system.

I use that system for solar water pumps, but in the water pumps case, it uses the inductive properties of the solar pump motor to make the current conversion.... the solar industry calls it current booster technology.....

It revolves around not letting the panel voltage drop below a pre ordained set point via pwm control....... You don't need a processor to do this....a comparator will do it anyway.

They are probably on the right track in some regards. True MPPT seems to be really useless if you use 60 cell panels on a 24v system ( 250w panels using 6x6 cells), your switching losses barely (in fact probably wont) actually give you any gain except for flat battery conditions.

My solar controller uses simple pwm and 60 cell panels, and testing against expensive name brand mppt controllers has not had any useful improvement.... (struggled to find any improvement at all under these conditions)

When you go to high volts ( ie 90v for a 24 or 48v system) then the difference is marked, but at low differentials, probably not worth the mppt. Their fixed point will probably do every bit as well on lv panels ( 60 cell not 72 cell ones).

Not sure why they would use the fixed point without  driving an inductive device...... maybe batteries are exhibiting some inductance, and thats enough to make a difference.

But it is not mppt in the normal sense of the word... and in some circumstances can be better, in others worse.... test it and see, but use 60 cell panels if you can source them, your already a few amps per panel better for starters using 60 not 72cell panels ( 8A for the 60cells and 5A for the 72 cell ones ( roughly)).

My home brew 100a controller is noisy, and needs attention ( RFI) if theirs is as good as mine and quiet ( RFI) , it will be very useful.


.................oztules
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 10:34:05 PM by oztules »
Flinders Island Australia

philsbry

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2015, 11:34:02 PM »
Hi dnix 71, the fuses are 35A x3 in parallel. 

Oztules, so it would seem to be OK for charging a 24V 650Ah battery bank (c/10 455Ah), thanks for the analysis, I was thinking that the money was completely wasted.

I have 9x Sharp 167W NE-Q7E3E panels (72 cell though) that were too cheap to pass up to try this out on.  I'll use a hobby watt meter either side and get the amps in / out and voltages and report back when some extras arrive to make it all possible (panels have MC3 connectors, I'm putting MC4 on) and some 19mm^2 wire to put between the panels and controller and controller and batteries.  I won't use more than 3x panels with the watt meters, the displays tend to "black out" due to heat with higher amps (45A @ 24V).  I suspect my application was not in the design brief!

All up I'll be spending more on heavy gauge wire than components for this build.

Give me a few weeks and when the sun shines long enough in Adelaide to make an assessment, I'll write it up with photos.

Philip.

dnix71

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2015, 11:51:41 PM »
What's the max panel voltage you can put on it? I have 700 watts of various panels split between 2 controllers. I doubled up panels so most of mine are about 45voc.

philsbry

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2015, 03:06:31 AM »
The panels I have are 43Voc and 34.6 Vmpp.  The maximum I think that can be pumped into the unit is 45V.

There will be some voltage drop because I have gone for 8 B&S Tycab cable rather than 6 B&S from the panels to the controller, but with a short run the voltage drop should have only a negligible effect.

Now for a couple of clear weekends and some spare time outside of work to get things happening.

If this one goes on the fritz, I'll use the PL60 I have in the 12V (960W) system and have another sale of barely used batteries.


oztules

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2015, 07:56:46 AM »
Let us know how it goes when you do get it up.

I might modify one of my solar pump boards and see if it is any better than straight pwm... I will use a set point of  61v and see if there is an improvement over the pwm one I am running at the moment.

Actually, having typed that I realise I have created more recently a control card that controls  a commercial motor controller like the 600amp curtis etc for bigger solar pump work ( on reverse osmosis machines.. set mpp, top speed, pressure control etc)..... I can use that to direct the current pwm controller i think to get a quick idea of performance change...... hmmmm... always something else to try. ( ignore pressure and speed though)

.............oztules
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 08:04:08 AM by oztules »
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philsbry

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2015, 10:44:16 PM »
So I spent last night changing the MC3 connectors over to MC4 on the solar panels and mounting them on a spare section of roof.  After a trip to the electronics store to get some 6mm2 crimps, I turned on the Power Jack SC100 2400W Solar Controller purchased from the Power Jack Store on ebay.  My expectations were not high, even the manual says this is a PWM controller.

Well, take a look at the photos below and decide for yourselves.  When off, the input voltage reads 39.7 and battery voltage 26.0.  When turned on, the input voltage drops to 26.3 and the input rises to 26.1.  The current measured using a clamp meter in the input side is 5.31 and output of 5.06.
 
There is no inductor coil on the inside, the manual says this is a PWM controller, it's obvious that there is some deceit in the advertising going on here.

joestue

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2015, 01:15:06 AM »
There may be a semi resonant or resonant snubber inside the pwm unit and you can get some energy recovery from the inductance of your solar panels and batteries.

I would not take those amp meter's readings too seriously either unless you can calibrate them somehow for the type of current ripple going on here.
My wife says I'm not just a different colored rubik's cube, i am a rubik's knot in a cage.

philsbry

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2015, 02:22:11 AM »
I guess, but MPPT to me suggests panel voltage and amps in, then battery voltage with extra amps out (basically).  This is PWM + MPPT algorithm, which is not really MPPT.  Here's the manual which even says PWM.

joestue

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2015, 03:53:12 PM »
well the photo of the manual page there says it has a pwm fuzzy charge mode and 7 phase voltage control are available for the storage battery.

it then goes on to say that it utilizes a buck conversion circuit and mcu technology to track the...


anyhow from my point of view it is advertizing itself as an mppt when it is not. it does not have a buck conversion circuit (unless they are referring to the 5 volt power supply for the mcu.. lol)

here's an interesting thought:

if it has an mppt algorithm in the mcu, then you could build a legit mppt converter from it by adding an inductor, diode, and the required capacitors.
however given the pwm frequencies for these types of converters are rather low, you will have to use a very large inductor, the frequency will dictate what is practical here.
My wife says I'm not just a different colored rubik's cube, i am a rubik's knot in a cage.

gwats1957

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2016, 10:54:51 PM »
Has anyone try the new power jack mppt charge controller.
Here is the specs: 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP.
I see it on ebay selling for just $99.99 that is so cheap for a good mppt charge controller. I am wondering if its a good buy. What do you think?
Go to the link below to check out the specs and please advise me as to what you think.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2400w-smart-solar-controller-DC12V-24V-MPPT-100AMP-solar-panel-3-5-LCD-display/251932278179?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3Dcc49c087e863427ca378878f89fada90%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D261897094548&rt=nc

gwats1957

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2016, 10:58:13 PM »
I doubt anyone here has bought one yet, or they would probably have posted an article about it.

I do want to make one point clear: it is possible to build what is advertised there, for that price.
I know this because I know how much a well known 3Kw 48 volt power supply costs.. single phase 240vac input, 99% power factor and 97% efficiency. The same company offers a 2Kw supply in the same form factor that is built for direct solar panel connection (mppt, of course). I'm sure these units cost more but electrically they will have less expensive stuff than the single phase ac input version. (less capacitors on the input, lower energy stored in the boost inductor)
 Got one running for a week now... today, it told me my 35 volts coming from the panels was too high?


anyhow point being, eventually someone will build something that is cheap, efficient, and will last a long time. but Power jack is but one of those things: cheap, and will burn out if you try and make it deliver rated output.

for 100$ though i might be tempted to buy one just to see if there is any intelectual property worth stealing from it, but i don't think that is the case here lol

joestue

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2016, 11:51:37 PM »
only 50$ now..

anyone want to ship me a broken one?  ::)

i might buy one but i think i'm still below the federal poverty line..
My wife says I'm not just a different colored rubik's cube, i am a rubik's knot in a cage.

Johann

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Re: PowerJack 2400w smart solar controller DC12V/24V, MPPT,100AMP
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2016, 10:33:16 PM »
So, is the inverter  from post #1 a inverter that can be used for a 12 volt or 24 volt systems?
I looked at this inverter also. I have a 12 volt system that has 36 cell panels and would like to know if it would be ok to use it.
Thanks.