Author Topic: Building a 6kw pure sine wave inverter using power jack boards part1 transformer  (Read 62016 times)

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clockmanFRA

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Hi Neil,

Yes France is 220vac.

Okay Oztules, I have been reading all your past 20 pages and notes, all 63,000 words, gulp!

And yes I have that e65 choke from Bulgaria......... as per your link.......  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370597734866?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Here is the ferrite with my 50mm/2 cable showing, 3 full turns? .       Do you just join the core together with tape around the outside, or do you epoxy resin ?
I think I can make a former and coil those few turns then assemble the choke around the little coil, is that ferrite core fragile?



Hay making here, and I got dragged into Round bale making, that's after doing some repairs/, sorry finding bits that flew of the tractor. hhmm.
Everything is possible, just give me time.

clockmanFRA

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My 15kW Power Jack Boards, Oz's link.  ........... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121372307145?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=420314377003&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Just scroll down there selection box for the Control Board.

The boards came to me assembled with the Control board secured on top of the 2 heatsinks on the Power Board.

Here's a few picks from a different point of view.......

8882-0

The power Board. Showing the cap specs.

8883-1

Close up, Showing the Specs.

8884-2

The Control Board.

8885-3

Some ones been busy with a big soldering Iron? Flux all over the place......

This Inverter will be in the Power Station Building, ie my lavoiur/spring water building, so these boards are going to need some sort of coating...... any particular suggestions.?
Everything is possible, just give me time.

oztules

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Thanks for that Clockman/
yes ferrite is very very brittle.  3 turns is fine.
nice pics, and of the boards too.

They really never stay still these boys, and I have no idea of why those leads are on the power cards fet boards.... none at all unless they have decided to protect the driver board by including something cunning on those cards....maybe absorber diodes underneath.....

Some hot soldering iron on those big neg wires on the back may be in order, the top one looks to have been too cool when they soldered it.... just how it looks...

I am going to use a lanolin spray for the coating called ozspray ( I kid you not)...  It is  a bit more "gluggy" than CRC, and I  have had it in the washing machine computer for the last 10 years. It failed ( brand new) after only a few months, and I found the damp marine air corroded the computer chips legs together after only a few months... cleaned it up with mentholated spirits and heat, coated it in this spray, and 10 years later... still no problem... so I will try that again.


..................oztules
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Mary B

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Nice 2 element 40 meter yagi! I don't have the space for anything that big!

oztules

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Mary, 
He is coming here this afternoon to get me to solder up the plugs for the rotator. It is currently pointing to Europe... with no rotator cable.....
maybe by tomorrow he will be able to blast it towards your place... it is a big.... huuuge... m..m..monster.... I think the tower goes up to 90 feet or more too.

It's a big step up from the dipole between the tower and the pine trees...... I'm 10 km away..... but I fear my hair will stand up when he hits the TX.....

While it is down for the plug, he is going to add an inch to each end of the reflector... are they that darn sensitive???... it's all witch craft.

If you Pm me your QSL, I'l get him to look out for you for DX on the vert.... if your into DX stuff, and IOTA.

..................oztules
ps and no I don't understand half of those nomenclatures... I think they are right.......I'm a non ham.
Flinders Island Australia

Mary B

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Yes antenna length is that sensitive! But as he takes it to 90 feet it will change...

My callsign is W0AAT I will look for him this fall when the bands quiet down, right now thunderstorm static is pretty constant.

clockmanFRA

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Meters ,  As per your Notes Oztules, I have these on the way here.
For looking what is happening on the 220vac side ……..
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181573167298?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

8888-0

And the DC battery side, this has a 300a shunt, I already have one of these on one of my 48vDC 30a Wind Turbines …………
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171204358909?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

8889-1

And 3 of these Temp Meters so I can see whats getting warm…………..
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251637079552?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

8890-2
Everything is possible, just give me time.

dgd

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Too many meters although all the temperature measuring is a good idea  :)

To monitor what is happening I am gathering together the various sensors for DC and AC voltages, currents,
AC frequency and temps at various locations then using an Arduino Meg2560 or DUE to monitor them and generate and serve a web page or three.

Might even include a few gauge displays (in the web pages) and get some Highcharts graphs included to look at performance over a few hours/days and maybe weeks.

dgd
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 12:28:02 AM by dgd »
Off grid since 4/2000
Midnite C150,C250,Clipper, 2.8Kw PV, 2Kw turbine,1025Ah24v FLA (1999), SW3024E (1997), 3q16 48v300Ah LiFeYPO4 6Kw OzInverter, Arduino DUE web monitor.

joestue

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those temperature meters are useable, but they may be off by 2C from one meter to the next.

Also you will want to hot glue the wire into the back of the case, it is very thin cable. they run from 1.5 volts so buy AA's to run them, or buy a pack of 50 of those lr44 cells to run them from ebay, they burn up a lot more current than they should.

clockmanFRA

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Hi dgd, I want to see what's going in and what's going out.

joestue, the thermometers are really just temporary to see whats getting hot and where. So after a couple of months I can install a permanent Fan temperature controller. I think the PJ's come with some sort of temperature switching?


My 2off wound 190mm diameter toroidal cores. They came with core inserts.

8897-0

Putting the woven glass fibre on the edges of the cores. I am using a thin-ish viscosity Epoxy Resin. About 12ml.
Here I just put the Epoxy on the wrap around, let it set overnight and Epoxy the turn over the following day.
I use 50 Micron Melinex clear sheet as a table top, as nothing sticks to it.

8898-1

The two cores joined together with a woven matt fiberglass and Epoxy, and then Epoxy a 25mm wide strip around the joint. The core is now 20.5kgs.

8899-2


« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 02:14:42 PM by clockmanFRA »
Everything is possible, just give me time.

clockmanFRA

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3 layers of 20mm wide Mylar winding tape.

One of those fold away work banches,  with a spare bit of Ύ inch ply board screwed down. I cut a 95mm dia hole and cut it away so I can do a quater of the toroidal core before needing to lift and turn it. I have attached a single support leg so the whole lot cannot topple over.



Everything is possible, just give me time.

oztules

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Looks the part... nice ...... nice set up too.

What are the inserts made of?

Keep the pics and write up coming.

"so I can do a quater of the toroidal core before needing to lift and turn it"..... heavy little beggers aren't they.


.............oztules
Flinders Island Australia

clockmanFRA

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Those 'Inserts' seem to be just smaller toroid cores, I think just to keep my big cores from deforming while in transit here.? Anyway they come in handy.

And yes oztules the 'beggers are heavy'.

Just finished the first winding/layer of 1.8mm diameter enamelled copper wire. I now have 'soar thumbs' and 'soar first fingers', as on each corner, 472 of the blighters, I have to hold the copper wire tight and form it ready for the next corner while keeping the wire tight.........

I have gone for 118 turns.. is that OKAY?...

My reasoning being, that as each of my 4 layers goes on, I test each winding.  I can reduce the later windings to match the first, as each will be epoxy coated.

But as you said "don't go below 114 turns".

The first quarter gets under way, it was so rubbish I went back and did it again.
The driver/drill is handy for bobbin winding, as the speed is very controllable when winding up those 42 meters. gulp!

I will try and get the bobbin wound a bit neater for the second layer, as its important to keep the wire tight when winding the toroid core.
Yes the bobbin fits nicely down through the core.

8905-0

First winding just finished. It now needs a bit of loving care to tidy up some of those wayward wires before I epoxy.

8906-1

 

Everything is possible, just give me time.

Mary B

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Most toroid winders do not use a spool type bobbin, they use a long flat form like a stretched H shape that fits through the core. Wind your wire on that and you don't have to twist the bobbin to go through the hole while winding.

oztules

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Clockman, thats a good looking result thus far... making me look bad :(

Had a 1 year old 5kw PJ turn up today with a   noisy transformer. It turned out to be one of the totem driver transistors causing the problem... it went short to ground, so the h bridge was unbalanced to say the least..... first failure I know of from inverter duty only. It struggled to get to 240v in that state, and made a horrid noise.... all good now.... a 3 cent transistor can make a difference. Can't see why it went... will delve further to see if I can find anything else to report.

I think the 118 is a fair target, wish I could be more accurate.... but it sounds like you have more core than me or very close, so 118 should be fine. It won't hurt to do more if you want to get the magnetizing currents even lower. The further you are from saturation, the lower the currents required.

At some point, it gets fairly linear, and not worth going further as the copper loss rises, but up near the top of the curve, the results from lowering the current by increasing the turns, is very very handy. ( it is the extra turns on the primary to cater for the more turns on the secondary that matter really).

Beware, you may have to cut down your favourite bobbin to smaller size as your hole gets smaller. There is no crime in having to join as you go.... (twist and solder).

Handy looking little torroids you have there  to play with.... wonder how many turns/volt they would be....instead of volts per turn.



Thats true Mary..... but....

But i found with 2mm wire, it is much much easier to use the bobbin as clockman has done. If you push it through the correct way around, as it unwinds,  it places the wire hard against the core wall, if you use a flat bobbin with thick wire, it just becomes a nightmare to get it to sit correctly... and if you use reclaimed wire (me), it is so tensile as to be an absolutely painful experience......... unless you use the round bobbin.

This gets more problematic as you get to less hole size, but the flat bobbin offers no help at all in keeping it both taught, and straight and tidy.

For winding your 1800v using spider web comparatively, the flat bobbin way will do fine, but I would still use a round bobbin if i could, as I have found it so easy to remain tidy and tight.

But if your hole is too small, then the flat bobbin is the only answer.... sadly.



.................oztules
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 09:12:12 PM by oztules »
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SparWeb

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Still watching with interest.  Love the way this is turning out.
I don't actually have anything to add - except to Clockman, that round bale time has only just arrived here.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, regulated by Xantrex C40, DIY 8ft diameter wind turbine, regulated by Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024

oztules

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ooops...... didn't mean to press reply button..... thats why I am the village idiot I guess.....
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clockmanFRA

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Second winding going on. Again its 118 turns and will be in parallel with the other 3.....

As the centre hole gest smaller so my plastic bobbins are being down sized. In this photo I ran out at 3/4 of the winding so I have done a twisted joint, and soldered it.
Over the years winding the same diameter wire with my wind turbine PMG coils, I use the flat of the sharp knife to remove the enamel from the wire then a some emery paper, do the join and cover with glue lined insulating shrink wrap.

8908-0

2nd winding done, and yes oztules the second is neat, especially the way it fits in the space of the first windings.

Testing time before I epoxy the second winding.
I followed your instructions. Light bulb is a night light, but the readings were the same for each winding, and Zero, well 0.01v on the final test across the two live outs.

8909-1
8910-2
Everything is possible, just give me time.

clockmanFRA

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Probably insignificant...............  The second winding used about another 1.1 meter of copper wire than the First so I see a slight difference in the resistance readings between them.

8912-0

And the Second winding....

8913-1

Everything is possible, just give me time.

clockmanFRA

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I will try and go for the Fourth winding, but it might be tight getting my 14 turns of 50mm/2 down the middle. ?

My first winding and fiberglass cloth took up 10mm of my 90mm original diameter centre hole.

I see what you mean about compromise's...........
 
Everything is possible, just give me time.

keithturtle

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Most toroid winders do not use a spool type bobbin, they use a long flat form like a stretched H shape that fits through the core. Wind your wire on that and you don't have to twist the bobbin to go through the hole while winding.

I built one that uses a split bobbin. Spent 2 weeks on the stupid thing and the best it will do is 26 ga wire. Gave up and wound 'em by hand.

But I proved to myself that it can be done

Turtle
soli deo gloria

oztules

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WOW... how cool is that  :)
It certainly wont do 2mm tensile copper, but gosh what a fine effort that was... sheer class.


All going to plan clockman looks good too.... every micron counts.... and that is pretty good that you only spent another meter or so with the greater diameter. You could actually stop there for 6kw. Your 11.2mm wire probably has thick walls, you can strip that off and use heatshrink if you need more space... makes a huge difference... and some  heat shrink is high temp too... you could push the thing very hard with that instead of the pvc.... more flexible too.

You won't buy a better transformer than that. It will be all but silent with resistive loads , hair drier or any other phase switching triac controlled high power thing will still make some noise, but it is very quite.......... right up to 6kw or more you'll find..... ie if your running say 2kw, and then turn on an electric jug of a few extra kw, you won't hear a change in sound.

Looks beautiful.

................oztules
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 02:22:42 AM by oztules »
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metalmangler

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Nice looking work,....."every micron counts", I can apreciate the idea,just cant work to those tolerances.
The size of the coils is confidence inspiring.
Building a winder for these would be quite a chalenge, simmilar to fillament winding in composite parts manufacturing,
where the bobbin has to be passed off over and over, or a rope factory where this happens in one dimension only,
still facinating to watch, a kinship to any weaving, just hard to wrap your head around....end up getting tied in knots.....
and loosing the thread

Mangler
Get it done quick no matter how long it takes

joestue

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In my opinion it gets easier with larger transformers.

I recently rewound my variac with 15 awg wire, I think I used about 2 pounds of wire.
http://johansense.com/bulk/variac.JPG

I pulled the wire off the spool about .7 pounds at a time and threaded it through the coil in a big loop about 7 inches in diameter (so perhaps 50 turns), then cut the wire off the spool and started winding the turns.. in the opposite direction as the wire I had threaded through the core.

So as I'm winding the turns where they need to go, the coil of wire is growing larger in diameter.. so I had to stop from time to time to thread the coil through the core to reduce the diameter to keep it from getting out of hand.

Anyhow if I had cut a slot in my desk as clockman had done, I suspect I could have wound the core with one piece of wire rather than 3 sections, but I was too lazy to try and calculate what weight of wire I needed.

Anyhow it was not at all difficult to get the variac wound.. the only challenge was I wound the core too dense.. you have to space the turns out more than you'd like to. I also found out how they get machines to do it.. the secret is the disk on top and bottom of the core has slots cut in it for the wire to rest in.
I was able to get enough turns to make a 0-240v variac, from 15 gauge wire. Originally it was wound with 18 gauge and was 0-280vac.

Neil

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clockmanFRA , how many volts are going to the toroid from your pj board?

Neil

frackers

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I built one that uses a split bobbin. Spent 2 weeks on the stupid thing and the best it will do is 26 ga wire. Gave up and wound 'em by hand.

But I proved to myself that it can be done

Turtle

I've been tempted to do similar when I start on my toroid - bicycle rim for the spool side and several sections of window winder mechs that have a toothed arc of steel welded into a circle for the winding side.
Too complex for the 1.8mm wire but I might use the (split) bicycle rim and wind by hand. Easier to get the 50m of wire (about 30 turns) on the large diameter than heaping it onto an bobbin small enough to go through the hole.

Got most of the parts (high power wheelchair motor, bearings etc) to remake the cores themselves first.

Robin Down Under (Or Are You Up Over)

clockmanFRA

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Thanks oztules, for your kind comments. Please do shout if I am heading down the wrong road.

I await your replies with baited breath, especially that last testing stage.

 My friend in the South of France and I, discussed your coil testing and balancing with several emails.   

 I have not soldered my coils in and out together yet as I have more testing to go.

Re the 50mm/2, 14 turns, Yes I see your point about the insulation thinning down so I still will try for 4off 118 turns.

Question oztules...... On the last of the 4 windings its likely that the core diameter will be to small to get all my 1.8mm dia wire to fit neatly along side each other, so they will have to overlap each other. Should the overlaps be evenly spaced etc around the inside core, or just bunch up ?

Neil....  Well the plan is to throw 48 to 60vdc in to the toroid, and get 220vac out of it.
However, I trust oztules will enlighten us on that part, especially the bit where I will need to call a Taxi to get the electrons to their correct place of work...... he he.

Regards toroid windings, I did a quick sketch of my double up cores.
As you can see winding that small inner core gets difficult as the hole diminishes, so if I did a triple core then winding it has to be done by hand bobbins, I think.

8931-0

For me getting this size of toroid to do my work is brilliant, and doubling up, even tripling up of the cores means that perhaps this efficient design of oztules, is beyond normal commercial practise. 
 
Everything is possible, just give me time.