Author Topic: Converting power created from a homemade generator  (Read 35456 times)

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Mary B

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #66 on: October 12, 2015, 02:13:27 AM »
You might be set on milli volts... aka 1/1000 of a volt... have a model number of the meter so we can look at it and check your settings?

Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #67 on: October 12, 2015, 08:43:45 AM »
The model number is 052-0060-2, mastercraft. I do believe it's set to milli volts or microvolts, as it has the small u symbol under the 200 AC setting

electrondady1

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #68 on: October 12, 2015, 10:51:19 AM »
it was late last night when i posted.
  i could have added that 13.2 volts dc was about right.
what i do is work the formula backwards from 14 volts dc @60 rpm
to find what each coil must produce.
you can add turns to your coil to bring it up to that .

the think is, 60 rpm is maybe 1/3 of what a drag vertical will cut in at .
hawts much higher rpm, like 120 rpm.
if you are doing a bike alternator you can pick any speed your want with gears and pulleys.
the faster you spin it the more power it makes
the more turns you put on the more volts you get.
the fatter the wire the more amps you get.
 
you will need at least  clearance of 2mm or 1/6 between your stator and mags . make sure your test set up is close to that.

Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #69 on: October 12, 2015, 02:13:13 PM »
Okay, so I should see what rpm I can attain comfortably on the bike, then start seeing how many turns of the coil I would need. At what point would I start thinking about going down wire size to fit more coils into a smaller area.

Thanks in advance! This is getting really exciting

Mary B

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #70 on: October 12, 2015, 04:03:37 PM »
Okay I think you are on the wrong setting, that is current... your meter has a section with 750 and 200 and a ~ over a V. That is you AC volt range. the 200u setting is microamps and not what you want.

The model number is 052-0060-2, mastercraft. I do believe it's set to milli volts or microvolts, as it has the small u symbol under the 200 AC setting

Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #71 on: October 12, 2015, 04:27:37 PM »
Thanks Mary! On the 200 setting I'm not getting a reading unfortunately, shall I keep adding turns to the coil until I get some numbers? Or try and increase the rpm

Bruce S

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #72 on: October 12, 2015, 05:02:11 PM »
Since you already have the coil made, I believe it best to start by increasing the RPM.
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electrondady1

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #73 on: October 13, 2015, 08:40:09 AM »
post an image of your meter and post an image of your coil laid over the mags.

Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #74 on: October 13, 2015, 04:21:02 PM »

Close-up of the voltmeter


Single rotor on bearings assembly


Coil set beside the rotor. Normally it's much closer but made the gap wider for viewing purposes.


Coil fastened to a cereal box, each end attached to one of the leads of the voltmeter.

Hope this helps!

electrondady1

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #75 on: October 14, 2015, 10:13:04 AM »
 
every thing looks ok.
if your willing to experiment a bit more ,

in a 6 coil 8 mag 3 phase alternator, individual coils must reside inside a 60 degree segment of a circle . 360/6
the coils can form a trapezoid within that space.
it's a tapered coil.
basically your widening the outside width of the coil a bit in order to have the legs of the coil traverse over two mags for the maximum time.


Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #76 on: October 14, 2015, 11:18:20 AM »
Sounds like a plan! Would I make a single test cool in that shape/size and try to get a reading off tha?

dave ames

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #77 on: October 14, 2015, 12:15:38 PM »

Cheers Gitrmstr!

Looking good, well done with the cereal box test coil holder. ;)

Hard to tell from here but looks like the black meter lead wants to go to the center COM port on your meter?

Following along in Connecticut, Dave

Mary B

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #78 on: October 14, 2015, 06:26:56 PM »
Good catch Dave! Yes the black lead needs to be in the center COM connector!

Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #79 on: October 14, 2015, 08:29:28 PM »
That makes a lot of sense looking at the meter more closely! Dopey move on my part :P
Unfortunately, still no reading at 60rpm with the test coil at 50 turn.

Would my next step be to make the trapezoidal test coil that electrondady suggested? If so, how many turns should I try? If there's no voltage result from the first test, would I then attempt to increase the rpm?

Again, thank you Dave! I appreciate your help and compliments!

Thanks in advance

electrondady1

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #80 on: October 15, 2015, 08:24:23 AM »
your back to no reading at all?

did you burn or scrape off the insulation for an inch from the ends of the coil.
use sand paper to get it down to shiny bare metal?





electrondady1

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #81 on: October 15, 2015, 08:44:30 AM »
test your meter in a wall outlet for 120 volts

Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #82 on: October 15, 2015, 11:20:17 AM »
Turns out I was getting an amperage reading, as Mary pointed out that I was on the incorrect setting.
I still get the amperage reading but when I measure it in 200v AC setting there's no reading

Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #83 on: October 15, 2015, 12:17:24 PM »
Update: I was able to get a reading from the wall socket of 124 V AC on the 200 setting. So my meter seems to be working

Simen

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #84 on: October 15, 2015, 02:52:53 PM »
I don't think you'll get any reading at the 200VAC setting with only 50 turns at 60rpm with those magnets, without even a steel-disk for a return path for the flux...

Don't you have a drill with a known speed you can turn the shaft with?
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Mary B

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #85 on: October 15, 2015, 04:26:00 PM »
You might have blown a fuse in the meter trying it in the microamp scale... manual will tell you how to check it and replace if needed! You can also test the meter by sticking each lead in one of the slots on a 120 volt outlet. Lets make sure it is working and reading around 120 volts first!

electrondady1

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #86 on: October 16, 2015, 10:17:26 AM »
i have mags like that .
i have old saw blades too
I'd like to build a copy cat test set up to figure out what's going on.
but first i need to change two burners in my tenants stove.

Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #87 on: October 18, 2015, 07:00:23 PM »
Alrighty so a quick update, I was able to grind the rod down to a size that my drill would fit, and even spinning it with the drill yielded no reading from the test coil. Should I make a coil with more turns?

hiker

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #88 on: October 19, 2015, 10:30:31 PM »
Man....sounds like murfy is having fun with you..😜.  Try 65 and mount as close to mag as possible..sounds to me your having probs. with the dang meter..should have seen at least  a volt  or two..??
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Simen

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #89 on: October 20, 2015, 12:39:58 AM »
I haven't ever used other than Neo magnets, but i have a similar generator With 1"x2"x3/4" neo magnets (8 magnets, 6 coils in star), and i get around 1.5VAC at 180rpm per coil (80 turns 15 awg), and that is with a steel disk providing a return path for the flux. Air gap around 1.2mm each side of the coil.

With weaker magnets and no return path for the flux, i'm guessing that you'll need a coil with at least 200 turns?! (I'm just guessing. ;) )
I will accept the rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. - (R. A. Heinlein)

Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #90 on: October 20, 2015, 08:33:08 PM »
Success! I made a coil with 90 turns and finally got some numbers to flash! What a rush

Spinning it at around 60 rpm I got .1 volt, I can get .2 if I spin in a bit faster.

What sort of calculations must I do now to iron out the details?

Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #91 on: October 22, 2015, 10:49:35 PM »
Okay, so I've done a few tests and crunched some numbers, please feel free to correct me if you see any errors in calculation.

With single rotor, spinning at 130 RPM by a 90 turn coil of 20 AWG wire yielded 0.1V.

Being able to keep up around 540 rpm on my bike, I hypothesize:

540/130=4.143
Assuming 2 rotors would double the output, and I would have 6 coils... (0.1V X 2)X 6 = 1.2V at 130 RPM
Since I can achieve an RPM 4.143 time greater than 130... 1.2V X 4.143 = 4.98V.

This assumption could be entirely false, as my numbers are all based on the understanding that the output scales equally with the increase of RPM and number of coils.

So, at 4.98V being created I'm pretty happy with the outcome for a summer project.
But now on to bigger and better things, would my next tactic be to lower the size of the coil allowing for more turns and increased voltage? Or have I reached the limits of this project with the items I have now.

As always, thanks in advance for your insight.

electrondady1

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #92 on: October 23, 2015, 07:52:15 AM »
i think you can do better than .1 volts per coil.
i think there is something amiss with your test coil.

 





klsmurf

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #93 on: October 23, 2015, 10:26:55 AM »
Hi Gitrmstr,

A belated welcome to the forum.  I've been following along hoping for the best. Be careful, success can be addicting.

I'm with Simen on this. You need that second rotor to make this work. I don't know how much reading/studying you have done on the subject, but you need that second rotor (with or without magnets) to get results. You may want to have a look over here http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,147784.0.html. It's not exactly the same, but the principles and size are. Plus there's pictures.

Kevin
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hiker

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #94 on: October 23, 2015, 12:28:52 PM »
Nice post..klsmurf.....always like Picts......😜
WILD in ALASKA

Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #95 on: October 23, 2015, 05:27:30 PM »
Thank you Simen and Klsmurf.
I place my second rotor on today and got some odd numbers, not sure if it makes sense but I got up to 1.1v while spinning it with my fingers.

Klsmurf, your project that you share looks great! Thank you for your input, I will take a closer look at your pictures and descriptions.

Furthermore, I'm wondering about my coil size vs magnet size. I've read that the hole in my coil should be large enough to fit the magnet through, is this true? Here is a picture showing the size comparison of magnet:coil.

klsmurf

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #96 on: October 23, 2015, 10:13:00 PM »
Quote
I place my second rotor on today and got some odd numbers, not sure if it makes sense but I got up to 1.1v while spinning it with my fingers.
In this case "odd" is good. I take it the second rotor has magnets on it?

So to recap:
You have a coil with 90 turns of #20AWG wire.
You are planning to make it 3 phase with 6 coil stator and 8 magnet on each rotor.

Good. now you need some consistent measurements.   RPM. voltage, air gap (the distance between magnet faces)

Your coil looks fine shape and size wise.  I've never used ceramics, so I don't know the rule of thumb as far as thickness of the coil. 
" A man's got to know his limitations " ------ Harry Callahan

Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #97 on: October 24, 2015, 11:07:40 PM »
Correct, the other rotor does have magnets on it. Unfortunately using the threaded rod has made my rotors not sit properly between the nuts and therefore I'm unable to make it perfectly straight so getting the wires close is somewhat difficult at this point.

Also, it seems those high readings may have be a fluke, as I've been unable to recreate them. I will tinker more tomorrow and see what I can do to make things work!

hiker

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #98 on: October 25, 2015, 12:39:03 PM »
Don't use lock washers on your rotors-It will offset them-another problem is the nuts..use eather the shiny ones or dull colored...as one of those don't seem to tighten evenly..pluse use a few large washers..stacked.....you will get them on straight it's just a pain.....once you get them mounted even..squirt a little super glue on the threads  to lock down...........been their done it..😂
WILD in ALASKA