Author Topic: New to wind power  (Read 6894 times)

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islandguy

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New to wind power
« on: December 10, 2015, 09:53:01 PM »
Need some  direction , I live in St. John's Newfoundland , solar is out  of the question November to May but lot's of wind average wind per month 11 to 15 KM . I have two  Ametek  38 VDC , 12 Amp Max # 2911977F6 900 rpm . I would like to run a 24 VDC to 24 VDC


 water hot water tank 40 gal. to reduce my household  heating cost over the winter . I  have a Princess Auto 32,000 BTU , 12 VDC  water heater with a drum fan 12 VDC . Need your help what do I need for a setup ?.

1--Are the Ametek motors OK for generators.
2--What are the best blades to buy and size
3--What are the best quiet blades
4--Do I need batteries if so what voltage & type are best
5--Best controllers , rectifiers erc. are the best to buy

I am sure I have many more questions

Mary B

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Re: New to wind power
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2015, 05:35:21 PM »
It likely has brushes and small bearings so probably not a good choice. No real data out there on it but the one site that did list the 38 volt models said no good for wind power...

I would see how it performs and at what RPM it takes to put a charge into a 12 volt battery that is run down halfway. Spin it up and monitor voltage, current, and RPM's to get an idea of it is suitable. Ametek made so many different motors that it is hard to say one way or another.

joestue

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Re: New to wind power
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2015, 06:20:38 PM »
To reduce your hot water heating costs, buy a dehumidifier or find one in a scrap yard and turn it into a heat pump to preheat your incoming cold water.
This can be done without breaking the refrigerant loop but it may not be worth the trouble.

1/4th male flare fittings with the shrader valves are only a couple bucks on ebay and anyone with a vacuum pump and refrigerant can fill it.

you don't need brazing supplies if you're willing to buy 8 flare nuts, 4 flare couplings. it might just be cheaper to buy the brazing supplies off ebay.
My wife says I'm not just a different colored rubik's cube, i am a rubik's knot in a cage.

MAL

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Re: New to wind power
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2016, 01:04:50 AM »
To reduce your hot water heating costs, buy a dehumidifier or find one in a scrap yard and turn it into a heat pump to preheat your incoming cold water.
This can be done without breaking the refrigerant loop but it may not be worth the trouble.

1/4th male flare fittings with the shrader valves are only a couple bucks on ebay and anyone with a vacuum pump and refrigerant can fill it.

you don't need brazing supplies if you're willing to buy 8 flare nuts, 4 flare couplings. it might just be cheaper to buy the brazing supplies off ebay.

Can you explain what you are describing with a little more detail?  It sounds interesting but I don't under stand the connections.

DamonHD

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Re: New to wind power
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2016, 11:56:24 AM »
You might find it useful to look at some of the FAQs on this site.

Rgds

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OperaHouse

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Re: New to wind power
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2016, 03:32:55 PM »
There is a guy up in Maine still selling heat pumps for $365 shipped  anywhere in the country that were left over from a utility company Hot Shot engineering evaluation program. I bought two NYLE units at 1/3 the normal cost..  I get hot water for half the electricity cost.  A deal and you don't have to learn refrigeration.

MAL

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Re: New to wind power
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2016, 03:46:22 PM »
You might find it useful to look at some of the FAQs on this site.

Rgds

Damon
I did look at the frequently asked questions...none of the links worked.

MAL

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Re: New to wind power
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2016, 03:52:06 PM »
There is a guy up in Maine still selling heat pumps for $365 shipped  anywhere in the country that were left over from a utility company Hot Shot engineering evaluation program. I bought two NYLE units at 1/3 the normal cost..  I get hot water for half the electricity cost.  A deal and you don't have to learn refrigeration.


 I have a few dehumidifiers laying arround.  I have searched this site fo information on this dehumidifier hack and have not yet found it, but I will keep looking.

JW

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Re: New to wind power
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2016, 07:58:08 PM »
DanF  has severed all links that go to otherpower, I asked him to leave those active but he did not. Were going to have to rebuild the FAQs section.

joestue

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Re: New to wind power
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2016, 11:03:56 PM »
Mal, do you understand how a dehumidifier works?

Its just a simple heat pump with the evaporator in front of the condenser and a single fan pulls air through both coils.

all you have to do is pull the condenser out (which one is which is always confusing for me, (the freon evaporator is condensing water out of the air)..lol) and figure out how to dump the heat into your water heater instead of the air, which was just cooled by the evaporator.

The simplest way is to make a container out of pvc for the condenser and have a water pump circulate water through it into your hotwater system (which is under pressure) a 10 watt acquarium pump will provide enough flow, since this water is recycled and exposed to hot aluminum you probably want to add some automotive antifreeze. issues with this is the long term effects of a somewhat open water loop exposed to oxygen from the air and the aluminum fins on the condenser. if you strip off the aluminum fins you lose thermal conductivity, but i suspect it will still be high enough.

the second problem is you technically have the potential for a leak between the water loop and your hot water system.

the not so simple solution is to simply break the refrigerant loop and stuff the 8 feet of 5/16th copper  pipe from the condenser (after removing the aluminum fins of course) into your hot water heater and then figure out how to seal it permanently, either solder or braze.
My wife says I'm not just a different colored rubik's cube, i am a rubik's knot in a cage.

MAL

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Re: New to wind power
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2016, 11:29:41 PM »
I would have to see it.  I can understand how it would heat water, but I am not sure about saving money when you are running another electric appliance.  Have you done this or just seen it somewhere?

OperaHouse

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Re: New to wind power
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2016, 03:36:12 AM »
It is not a lot of savings.  Every heat pump water heater heater I have seen only has a COP of about 2 meaning it is twice as efficient as resistance electric heating.  I like mine because it dehumidifies the basement for free,  It does suck heat out of your house.  Good if you use AC, bad if you are heating.  They also have about a 15 year life.

MAL

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Re: New to wind power
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2016, 08:58:56 AM »
It is not a lot of savings.  Every heat pump water heater heater I have seen only has a COP of about 2 meaning it is twice as efficient as resistance electric heating.  I like mine because it dehumidifies the basement for free,  It does suck heat out of your house.  Good if you use AC, bad if you are heating.  They also have about a 15 year life.

It sounds like I could do just about as well if I run 2 or 300 ft of pex in the supply line to my water heater to preheat ground water up to room temperature.

electrondady1

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Re: New to wind power
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2016, 09:17:51 AM »
kind of surprised with the responses you have gotten here island guy
 i build vertical mills which is a different kettle of fish.
i don't know what has happened to the archives .
 i don't know how to access all the posts from 15 years of people building windmill on this site .

 many people have built windmills using those ametek motors
i recall people remove the electronic controls and run them as simple dc motors/alternators
 
you will need a couple of batteries
you need a charge controller with a dump load feature .you run the heating elements off  the dump load.
sorry i can't help with the blade design but i recall people using 4' and 6' blades.

electrondady1

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Re: New to wind power
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2016, 09:40:21 AM »
if you don't get the information your looking for here
try http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/home.asp
also http://scoraigwind.co.uk/
also http://www.anotherpower.com/

OperaHouse

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Re: New to wind power
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2016, 10:07:57 AM »
Most systems will have excess power at times.  My solar system is designed to operate even i minimal conditions and that gives me about 2.5KWH a day to heat water.  A friend does commercial construction and gave me a 9 and 20 gallon water heaters.  These are placed in series with the 9 gal heating first.  This gives most of the hot water I need.  Tanks are expensive but if you have a cheap source should be used for a dump load.

Simen

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Re: New to wind power
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2016, 10:28:36 AM »
It is not a lot of savings.  Every heat pump water heater heater I have seen only has a COP of about 2 meaning it is twice as efficient as resistance electric heating.  I like mine because it dehumidifies the basement for free,  It does suck heat out of your house.  Good if you use AC, bad if you are heating.  They also have about a 15 year life.

Strange - mine air to water heat pump has a COP of 4.65... I don't think i've seen one below COP 3.0 here in Norway - air to air, or air to water. Maybe it's the climate... ;)
I will accept the rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. - (R. A. Heinlein)

OperaHouse

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Re: New to wind power
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2016, 10:52:36 AM »
Been a couple years since I looked into this and just did a quick search and came up with this report.

https://neea.org/docs/default-source/reports/heat-pump-water-heater-field-study-report.pdf?sfvrsn=5

I initially thought it would be higher, but everywhere I looked it was the same.  Perhaps you could post the source of your data to see if there is a difference in methodology.

Simen

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Re: New to wind power
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2016, 01:17:46 PM »
Been a couple years since I looked into this and just did a quick search and came up with this report.

https://neea.org/docs/default-source/reports/heat-pump-water-heater-field-study-report.pdf?sfvrsn=5

I initially thought it would be higher, but everywhere I looked it was the same.  Perhaps you could post the source of your data to see if there is a difference in methodology.

I'm just referring to the sticker on my heatpump. I'd admit it says COP 'max.' 4.65; it also says Power usage: 400-1860W, Heating Capacity: 1400-6000W. It's an inverter type heat pump, and uses R410a. (With those wattages, the COP should be min. 3.22.)
This heatpump have no problem to heat around 100m2 to 20C when it's -10C outside (only 15cm insulation in walls), in addition to providing hotwater.
I will accept the rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. - (R. A. Heinlein)

OperaHouse

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Re: New to wind power
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2016, 04:01:42 PM »
That makes sense, that is a heat pump for residential heating, not hot water.    I'd have to dig out my old thermal books to understand why it is different, but it is.  Likely  the power it takes to get the output 15C higher.

joestue

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Re: New to wind power
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2016, 04:10:32 PM »
Dehumidifiers turned heatpumps will only make a cop of about 2, mostly because the evaporator isn't big enough, and the induction motor in the compressor will be lightly loaded and probably operating at about 50% efficiency.

I would expect an inverter heatpump to have at least 75% eff, so you would get 50% more work done on the refridgerant.
My wife says I'm not just a different colored rubik's cube, i am a rubik's knot in a cage.