Author Topic: The OzInverter 6kW -15kW New Power Board.  (Read 65701 times)

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bergmanj

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Re: The OzInverter 6kW -15kW New Power Board.
« Reply #99 on: September 23, 2016, 09:27:55 PM »
Folks,
I haven't been here for quite a while, as now retired; and, instead of a solid 100 M internet connection to my work desk, I'm now really struggling with an unreliable, very slow (14.4K??) home dial-up connection.

Am not here a lot due to extreme difficulty signing-on ( 1/2-hr. or-so to just get in, then exceedingly long waits for access to this and other sites), and then receiving downloads; so, please don't expect immediate response back to you; though, I will be here now more often than recently.  Most frustrating!!!

So, please, if you have replies, no large attachments or photos! At least not for me.

I've been in professional commercial and military electrical / electronics manufacturing / engineering/ product test engineering & by hobby here in the U. S. A. for some 6-decades-plus now, so have plenty of experience. Because of my early hobby interest, I also know which end of a screwdriver to use, not just booklearning!  And, I've always been wide open to other's information.

Recently purchased and received Oztules 6--15 Kw inverter book, supplement, and circuit boards; the circuit boards are wonderfully commercially and professionally made!

One question for Oztules and anyone else on here: I'm entertaining using a half-bridge to drive the inveter output transformer in a "push-pull" arrangement into a three-lead split winding primary.  It seems to me that this would slightly increase efficiency, and cut the quantity of power-drive components by almost 1/2; thus, making the project even more cost-effective.

Has anyone tried this yet?  Elaborate about problems encountered, if any?

I look forward to any and all comments!



Regards,   JLB

oztules

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Re: The OzInverter 6kW -15kW New Power Board.
« Reply #100 on: September 24, 2016, 06:13:33 AM »
The most glaring reason the Hbridge is better fiscally...

1. The transformer would need twice the VA rating in push pull..... ie you need to wind twice the primary... but at the same thickness .. so twice the copper

2. Because of 1....... the cost goes up by well over a hundred dollars... and you save 12 dollars on the fets, but you need an extra identical primary, and because it won't fit.... you will need a much bigger core... more cost..... and you gain nothing for all of that. ( yes duty cycle is half, but if you halve the copper to make the new primary the same weight as the H bridge, the I^2 R losses will kill you any way.... twice the heat even though 1/2 the duty cycle on each cycle.

Thats the simple best reason I can think of.


Im not smart enough to get into the nitty gritty of how and why the Hbridge is a better  electrically......... but the money in the industry says full h bridge for real power.... no one uses push pull for these things. ... although push pull is extensively used for HF inverters level shifting stage, but that seems to be the end of it.

Square wave inverters used push pull, but that was a long time ago, and electronics was difficult, and the simplicity was worth the extra transformer size.

And I think it has a lot to do with natural damping due to the shorting of the windings each time, rather than letting them float each half cycle... I guess that stops the ringing fast.



...........oztules
« Last Edit: September 24, 2016, 06:17:40 AM by oztules »
Flinders Island Australia

bergmanj

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Re: The OzInverter 6kW -15kW New Power Board.
« Reply #101 on: September 24, 2016, 10:21:33 AM »
Oztules,

Thanks!

I guess maybe I should sign my salutation as "old-fart" from now on ;D, hi, hi.

Regards, "old-fart", JLB


p.s., Anyone else have any further comment or info., or have already tried?

OperaHouse

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Re: The OzInverter 6kW -15kW New Power Board.
« Reply #102 on: September 24, 2016, 05:04:56 PM »
I bought a couple ebay boards and I will be doing push pull using a small UPS transformer.  Of course I am only planning it to be 100W.  Cheap and simple using the UPS FETs.

dr. henrique

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Re: The OzInverter 6kW -15kW New Power Board.
« Reply #103 on: June 23, 2018, 11:56:58 PM »
Good evening everyone.
I recently made the inverter board of 15kw, but I'm having a problem, when I connect the board, I realize that the gate outputs "HO" have increased voltage, which ends up burning the mosfets. I noticed that there is a voltage buildup on the two transformer outputs, returning voltage on the "VS and VB" terminals of the ir2113 drivers, which increases the voltage of the "HO" outputs of the ir2113 inverters. What can this be? Can someone help me?

clockmanFRA

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Re: The OzInverter 6kW -15kW New Power Board.
« Reply #104 on: June 24, 2018, 05:36:19 AM »
Hi dr. Henrique,

Please see my reply to your EGS002 topic that you have posted.

Any good pics of your boards please?

I have not used IR2113.

The two FETS drivers we use are still the IR2110 these have a power supply of 13v by that zenner on the TIP35. This is a Oztules arangement and overcomes some Power supply issues. I have heard that some of the IR211- drivers come with and without internal blocking diodes or such?

On my particular Ozcontrol boards I have now upgraded the zenner to allow 15v to the IR2110. Several reasons mostly due to the quality of some IR2110 that are on the market.  But Oztules has left his at 13v as he see's no issues with his particular component supply.

On other forums, a few builders of the OzInverter have many varied issues and I have watched and listened to there build story's.    In one particular case the builder used a modern solder and was not good at soldering and Oztules himself had it posted back to him, re-soldered replaced dodgy components and sent it back as a working machine. Other builders have components around the wrong way, others the wrong values, other have tried to improve our boards and caused other issues.

I thought I had given enough information, supplied at cost, in my booklet and the supplement and my robust painting by numbers 3 PCB's, that most folk would follow !!!!!!!.


Comments.

The OzInverter works, if the instructions are specifically followed and components used that we recommended.
It is important to have good build quality.
 It is important to follow the Torroid build and test as recommended.
 It is important to use good quality components.
 The DC power to the OzInverter should be sufficient to operate and not instantly sag, this also relates to the cabling.

With a large toroid capable of continues 6kw, we need to start the Ozinverter gently and build up, in a manner of speaking, we do not go with the toroid with the accelerator flat out.

The On/off switching on the Pin 6 of the EG8010 sine wave inverter chip is critical and the cabling should be shielded or less than 100mm long, or decoupling with a 100n & 10uf caps bypassing the 1k resistor that goes to ground negative, (basically the off is a real ground, on is +5v but any bounce and flutters and the start up flutters and this is not good on a large toroid and the FETS suffer).
So make sure that your On /off switch is good quality, I use push button latching types. However the overtemp, pin15 is very stable as a start up, ie if it gets more that +4.7v the inverter shuts down and restarts safely when the +5v is removed.
 

I am, rewriting the OzInverter book, but its an issue for me to get down all salient facts and necessaries without being boring, but then not putting enough information.?

 


 

 

« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 05:53:13 AM by clockmanFRA »
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

dr. henrique

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Re: The OzInverter 6kW -15kW New Power Board.
« Reply #105 on: June 24, 2018, 07:18:34 PM »
When you're ready, send me the link, because I'm going to buy it.

dr. henrique

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Re: The OzInverter 6kW -15kW New Power Board.
« Reply #106 on: June 25, 2018, 06:14:29 PM »
 I made some experiments using the lay out of the frequency's board, applying to it using a switched source voltage, and I realized it that the cooper plating that are above it, on the other side of the board, appeared one voltage equal to the applied one, sugesting that exists there a voltage of foucault and such voltage went to the EGS, to the terminals 5 and 9, altering the oscilation produced by the terminals 6 and 10, which corresponds to the 2 exits (HO) of the drivers IR2113, burning the mosfets.
I made a test with DC current coming from battery and the voltage resulting from the superior part of the board was some milivolts, different from the DC current arising from the switched source, that presents a little oscilation.
Have  you had any problems of that type? If yes, what did you do to solve this problem?
What is the of the thickness of the power board? I believe that must be of 2 and 3mm, and I believe that increasing the dieletric may solve the problem, but this is just a theory and I would like to know your opinion and if you had done some tests.

Thanks.

Regards.

clockmanFRA

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Re: The OzInverter 6kW -15kW New Power Board.
« Reply #107 on: June 26, 2018, 02:20:38 AM »
As I said we discarded the egs002 board when we found build and component discrepancies on the boards.

We developed our own control boards with the EG8010 chip from the EGS002 board, but we keep our boards simple and robust. Now we can buy EG8010 chips in batches of 10 or so. NB the EG8010 should be the EG8010 HN1518HT1536 version.


We use 2oz copper, that's double the normal thickness, on both sides of the Power board. I also allow large solder pads for spreading the contact area evenly.
We keep the gates as close as possible to the FETS, a few mm, as parasitic frequencies can creep in.

Photos of your boards please.

Here is mine............

 

Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

dr. henrique

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Re: The OzInverter 6kW -15kW New Power Board.
« Reply #108 on: June 30, 2018, 02:26:12 AM »
Actually my problem was caused by the eg002 with defect, because one of the arms heated too much, there was an amperage consumption of the order of 11 amps in the void and thus it was difficult.
I have thought the best way would be to replace that eg8010 chip with an atmega with SPWM programming.

clockmanFRA

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Re: The OzInverter 6kW -15kW New Power Board.
« Reply #109 on: June 30, 2018, 03:29:09 AM »
Nice board.

Please remember that the 8010 chip has a soft start, ie, it ramps up the power to the toroid in a few seconds, rather than going in at full battery voltage.

With the 8010, 23.4kHZ, If I recall, each HZ has 27 steps each side.

As I said, above 2kW the toroid is a ferocious animal and needs to be ramped up carefully. With an EW transformer things are different but the losses can be significant.

There are several builds on thebackshed Forum, Warpspeed is the toroid man, where programming PWM has got good results, but I have yet to see a full 6kW toroid Inverter MegaPWM fully working in the field.

I like the 8010 chip, yes the pin 6 start stop is a pain to get correct, but the 8010 is nice and simple to get working consistently.

 
« Last Edit: June 30, 2018, 03:37:10 AM by clockmanFRA »
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

dr. henrique

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Re: The OzInverter 6kW -15kW New Power Board.
« Reply #110 on: October 13, 2018, 01:45:43 AM »
New design board.

clockmanFRA

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Re: The OzInverter 6kW -15kW New Power Board.
« Reply #111 on: October 13, 2018, 03:47:45 AM »
Nice looking board, dr. Henrique.

Looking at the PCB, I presume you are still using the 8010 chip?

Do you have a mega in there?

If you are using the 8010, it seems that techy folk have been analysing the stop start process on Pin 6. They think that due to sloppy code writing in the chip there is a possibility of a 'Shoot through Event' on the FETS.    ..see  'Poida's' and 'Gaspo' comments ........ http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10786&PN=1&TPN=3

With our particular design of the OzInverter we do not see any problems with the start stop,  IF YOU STICK TO THE BUILD PROCCESS, that Oztules has outlined.     .......  and my comments...... ....

Notes.  October 2017    Please see Web Site updates.
This Oz Control board, uses the 8010 chip Pin 6 for starting and stopping the OzInverter safely.  However, when the power board is first switched on using the 40r resistor to slowly charge the big capacitors using a push button before switching the main breaker on, then the control board may hang, use the reset button briefly to clear. The Over Temp probe sensor  connector will also switch ON/OFF, and is a safe way to start and can also be used for a Low Voltage Disconnect, LVD, circuit.   The on/Off on PIN 6 is sensitive and can pick up parasitic signals, so keep cables short, less than 150mm or de-couple with caps 100nf & 10uf..


Originally I wanted a hard working Inverter that would be up to the Job, be as simple as possible, be robust so that environmental, insects, humidity etc.  would not be as much as a problem as modern PCB's. And we wanted something that can be easily repaired even with dubious spec of the modern day Chinese components.

I will test 'Gaspo's fix as he has modified the Sub control board that has the 8010 chip. see below pics.

As I have said with the correctly built OzInverter we do not see the problems, but I understand that some folk in this day and age just want to continually switch it on and off like a domestic appliance, so their may be an issue if abused ?   But most of us when the OzInverter is switched on it normally stays on 24 / 7 year after year.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 04:07:35 AM by clockmanFRA »
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

clockmanFRA

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Re: The OzInverter 6kW -15kW New Power Board.
« Reply #112 on: October 13, 2018, 03:58:15 AM »
Oztules Inverter has been well and truly analysed by folk like that are pros from the Toroid world and pros from the Electronics area.

What amazes' me is that after all testing etc, Oztules has definitely hit the 'Sweet Spot' with this particular design, yes a few others have added peripheries, and I have backwards design for that 'Simple. Robust and Cost Effective' concept.   But in general his simple design is a masterpiece as machines go.   The more i see the results, the anylist, the reports, the more I get impressed with Johns 'Oztules' endevours.  A clever man, but he says he is "just lucky"!
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

DamonHD

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Re: The OzInverter 6kW -15kW New Power Board.
« Reply #113 on: October 13, 2018, 04:16:29 AM »
Smart thoughtful innovative people make their own "luck"...

Rgds

Damon
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clockmanFRA

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Re: The OzInverter 6kW -15kW New Power Board.
« Reply #114 on: October 14, 2018, 05:44:56 AM »
Hi Damon,

When you are next at your nearby neighbours house, Her Maj at Buck Palace, having a nice cup of tea and cake, can you mention 'Oztules' John and Hugh Piggott Please?

A present I think these guys deserve some sort of recognition for their RE developments, publications and their willingness to disseminate their IP & intellectual wisdom....... 
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

DamonHD

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Re: The OzInverter 6kW -15kW New Power Board.
« Reply #115 on: October 14, 2018, 06:00:13 AM »
Ha, if only!

The nearest I got was a chat with Prince Andrew about how many rooms Buck House has and if it could benefit from Radbot during its refurb.  Not quite the same as a firm order, or the ability to whisper suggestions for honours!  %^P

Rgds

Damon
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yuval

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Re: The OzInverter 6kW -15kW New Power Board.
« Reply #116 on: June 04, 2020, 01:04:34 PM »
Hello Guys,
Can any one help me get compnents to assemble this power inverter?

clockmanFRA

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Re: The OzInverter 6kW -15kW New Power Board.
« Reply #117 on: June 05, 2020, 03:24:35 AM »
Hello Guys,
Can any one help me get compnents to assemble this power inverter?


Hi yuval,

Welcome to this forum.

Here is a link to get my 'OzInverter 2nd edition' book and the 3 necessary PCB boards.

I offer the 3 PCB's as an extra option, and can be tucked inside the book to save postage.

In the book I also list all the required components for the PCB's and the OzInverter.

https://levivray.com/new-book--make-a-6kw-inverter.php


The PCB boards ….

All full size PCB masks are given in the book for etching your own boards.

Deliberately designed for working OzInverters, ie to allow for all types of hard environmental conditions,  and standard easily obtainable through hole components, large solder pads, large tracks, and importantly easy to repair/modify without getting to much substrate separation.  ie, it can be kept going.

The power board …. is double sided and double copper thickness and designed for simple through hole components. Espeacial attentention has been taken in getting the 'gates' as close as possible to the FET's and having sufficient track widths and pad sizes to ensure no pinch points. Please remember that this board may have to handle between 300 to 500 amp surges.

The OzControl board ..... There are 2 designs, one for 60HZ and one for 50HZ.  Although its a double sided board it can be etched on one side and links attached on the other, all masks are given in the book. This is based on Oztules simple original design, and has been modified for all the latest additions. Again its been designed for through hole components, except the SMD Chip 8010, which has its own daughter PCB. Design principles have been adopted to avoid closed loops and good sized tracks and pads used to avoid pinch points.

The OzCooling board ..... This PCB follows Oztules original concept and is a double board with two independent circuits. One runs the 2 PCB cooling fans, and the other runs the 2 toroid cooling fans. Fans and cooling are very important so the circuits are simple and we use robust and easily obtainable through hole components.

Notes,

The OzInverter has evolved to be a real hard working machine, BUT the book build instructions must be followed.

Important … If its in the book, it's there for a reason. 

I trust this helps.






« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 03:45:30 AM by clockmanFRA »
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery