Author Topic: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries  (Read 75138 times)

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OperaHouse

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #66 on: September 29, 2016, 03:01:32 PM »
Did another quick look.

// is count too high and makes narrow pulse?
  if (PWM3 >= 255) PWM3 = 255;  // FULLY ON

should be:
// is count too high and makes narrow pulse?
  if (PWM3 >= 250) PWM3 = 255;  // FULLY ON


You started adding code for a second pot to adjust setpoint and stopped.

panelrndup was just placed randomly in the program.

Take a good look at the serial data display on screen and see if that is what you want.

I have downloaded your code and will see what it does.


ontfarmer

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #67 on: September 30, 2016, 08:21:24 AM »
I changed the code that you mentioned to = 250 instead of = 255.  What else needs to be added to the code for the second pot to adjust set point ?  Where should I have entered  panelrndup   in the code ?

There has been very little sun here for several days, so have not got the normal print out on the serial screen.  They are forecasting sun in a few days.

OperaHouse

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #68 on: September 30, 2016, 11:30:48 AM »
You have already declared pot as an integer.  Now you need to read the A/D converter. the process is the same as before.


//  READ ANALOG VALUE AT PIN A3, setpoint pot
pot = analogRead(3);
// A/D values go from 0 to 1023

setpoint = setpoint - setpoint / 2;
 
  //Sum the readings by subtracting one average reading first
  // It isn't obvious but the routine effectively multiplies the A/D reading
  // by the divisor. It can be any number, First a fraction of the total is
  // subtracted Then new pot data is added.

  setpoint = setpoint + pot;  // Add latest A/D reading to panel total.
                                          // This makes a running average.
                                          //  This will give a setpoint between 0 & 2,046
                                          //  or 0 & 204.60 volts.

ontfarmer

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #69 on: October 02, 2016, 07:04:01 AM »
      I want to mention to the ones following this project how great it has been that 
 OperaHouse  is making this possible for me to have.

Changed the serial screen print out, it took me a few times trying before I got it figured out.
The order they are entered in Serial.print is what made the difference in printing out.

Entered    pot = analogRead(3);    setpoint = setpoint - setpoint/2;   setpoint = setpoint + pot;    to code where  rawdata = analogRead(0);   is.

OperaHouse

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #70 on: October 05, 2016, 03:17:46 PM »
Didn't have the best day yesterday.  I was updating one of my buck converters that charges batteries.  Didn't work after the install.  Blew out a LED and shorted a FET.  Put the old system back.  Later I decided to perform at lest a partial upgrade.  Managed to blow out a wall wart.  Of course I do this all with the power on and bare wires dangling.  You get away with it most of the time.

I ran your program and the serial was a long run on sentence.  You have probably corrected that by now using a serial println at the end.  There is something that you should be aware of and that is printing takes time and it can seriously disrupt how the program operates.  Got around to doing some timing the other day.  My one minute had increased to 2.6 minutes.  That is the downside of doing loop counts.  The program had grown a little, but a lot of that time was the result of printing.  Now that you are a programmer, you don't have to be wordy like "the voltage is".  Programmers don't make things so that other people understand them.  Those screens will open up so that there are more characters on a line.  I prefer to not have to make a screen wider than standard.  To keep the speed up and the number of characters down use multiple debug screens.  Think I did a post on that.  That had some screen always active.  But, you have the option of having no screen except when asked for.  That can really speed things up. Not much of a problem at this stage.  Going back and reading those posts again is a good idea.  They will have more relevance now that you have some experience.

ontfarmer

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #71 on: October 10, 2016, 09:20:49 AM »
Not had much time to spend  on this, very busy on the farm.  Going back over spending time reading the  posts again has helped me.  Not having previous experience with this and terms that are used, has at times been hard for me to understand.  I have learned a bit on the
programing,  added  println at the end of serial,  changed from  "  is "  to  = ,  shortened some other ones.  That made a big difference on the space that is used on the screen.  So
 far I  bring the screen up when wanted.  Tried moving  " meter = map(Daily,0,9180.0,255);"
up  to where the other ones are but keep getting  error codes  ? so it is still below serial.print.

Have had a lot of sun lately makes a big difference to the water that is getting heated.  When
things slow down a bit,  will have more time to work on this and hook up the other string of panels.
 

OperaHouse

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #72 on: October 13, 2016, 08:47:57 AM »
I'm adding another screen command to my system, it does a power point test giving the power point voltage and maximum wattage at that moment.  It will be a good check of the condition of the panels.  Since my system doesn't track power point it will give me info as to how it changes through the season.

ontfarmer

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #73 on: November 03, 2016, 06:13:24 AM »
Haven't had any time for a while to spend here.  OperaHouse how was your trip back from the camp ?  The landscape would be colour full at that time of year.  Read the post on controlling  multiple heaters with the uno.   I am going to try that when time permits.

OperaHouse

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #74 on: November 06, 2016, 01:47:46 AM »
In grade school we had to take one of these personality tests to guide us into what
our occupation should be in the future. Personally, that is pretty young to be deciding
your future and the social sciences are just hokum anyway.  But, I always liked the result.
It said my professions should be: scientist, engineer, farmer. Some of my relatives out
in Iowa were farmers. Farmers are resilient and have faith in the future.  They have to
in order to put effort into crops not knowing what the yield will be and enduring many
bad years in a row. I have faith in you.  And if I have to drive up there with a basket
of parts to get it working, I will do that.  Been a few years since I've been in London.

You are literally at the point where you are forgetting faster than learning. I don't
remember where we are in this discussion. There is always five minutes in a day that
can be used.  I understand the hesitation.  My wife wanted a newer vehicle.  Four months
ago I bought her just what she wanted, a 2014 Explorer.  Since then she has driven it
only three times, less than two miles and only one way. Not like she isn't used to something
big, this is her fourth Explorer. Just buying this vehicle is a pretty convoluted story
in itself. I had new plates on the vehicle, a clear title and the guy is walking away
saying to enjoy it. I hadn't paid a dime at that point and that wasn't the weird part.  It
is different to drive, but not that much. She is now driving my old pickup which she
would never drive before and calling it hers.  Need to work on my wife's taxes tomorrow.  Been putting that off and they keep sending these nasty letters about taking her bank account.  Was
on the phone with them an hour and a half. She said my wife made a lot of money for not paying much tax.  One thing I've learned is tax laws follow no reason.  You just follow them where they
go.  Math is my stock and trade.  Then again it could have been lack of blood giving me a brain
cloud.

Not pushing you, just never know what will happen.  The doc is pushing me to get a pacemaker
just because my heart rate is under 40.  Haven't warmed up to the idea yet. In the literature
all the people pictured are old people.

« Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 01:02:17 AM by OperaHouse »

ontfarmer

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #75 on: November 10, 2016, 07:53:09 AM »
  This has been like learning to ride a bicycle,  you watch,  listen to instructions,  seems very
easy straight forward.  Then you take control and on your own,  unexpected things happen.
When you talk about tax laws and  following no reason,  some of this has been like that to me.
I am powering a baseboard heater for the present time.  Was going to try and add to code for controlling second heater.

ontfarmer

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #76 on: November 11, 2016, 09:02:20 AM »
  The baseboard heater is 240 volt  750 watt so that is less than 200 watt of power.  Going to hookup a second one and try that. The days are getting shorter and the sun not very high
these days.

ontfarmer

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #77 on: November 15, 2016, 10:11:46 AM »
  Have you got any interest in coming to the London ?  You mentioned being there in the past,  maybe there are things in the area you would like to see ?  It would be great to meet you, spend some time and show you some things around here.  The door would be open.

george65

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #78 on: November 15, 2016, 10:45:31 AM »

Is it at all possible to buy some sort of an external controller so one could use an old Windows laptop to do this sort of thing?

I get the power consumption would be a bit higher but all this programming stuff for these boards seems terribly critical.
I have also seen these micro windows computer boards that run windows. Forget the name now, think it starts with V and they are made in Israel.

It would seem using a PC direct would be much easier for twits like me,  but I'm not sure what you would call the part that you hooked things to for the control signals that interfaced with the laptop?



OperaHouse

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #79 on: November 15, 2016, 02:52:47 PM »
When I started out eons ago it was a major hurdle just to get a compiler to run on a PC.  A PC just draws too much power, multiple voltages and interfacing issues.  The basic concept is simple, you could even use a GHURD controller if a capacitor bank is included.  One could even be made with a wall wart if they would have standardized with one part.  If you can load the Arduino compiler (FREE)  on your computer the other issues are minor.  For a $5 investment it is a lot of power.  I use the NANO version which is half that cost and has more capability.  Loading in the communication driver is a headache for the NANO.

I don't want to minimize anything.  There are a lot of ways you can get into trouble, but a lot of
non technical people have been successful with these projects. They can solve some really complex
problems cheap.  I just ordered another three of the $2.50 ones today. My whole camp runs on one,
fridge, two water heaters, pump, and two charge controllers and I still have some space left. This
year I finally added a test program to test the maximum power of the solar panels.  That answers the
question...Are the panels still good? These debug routins use the serial read screen in the Tools
section of the compiler.  The status of the house is from two blinking LED. One blink every ten
seconds tells me it is running and everything is OK. A lot of people want a big data solution with
tons of data on a screen. To me that is just RE porn. I don't want to be writing programs for people.
I am willing to help people get started.  If you can express what you would do if sitting there
flipping switches and turning a knob, you can program.  In my younger years I loved designing
circuits with a lot of pots to adjust.  Now I do everything with one of these boards in easily
changed software and add a half dozen parts.  Next year I need to do a video on the hot water
system. It sure beats the lame videos of people making hot water on youtube.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 06:07:59 PM by OperaHouse »

george65

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #80 on: November 15, 2016, 08:21:03 PM »
It sure beats the lame videos of people making hot water on youtube.

If I wasn't already in awe at your skills and appreciative of the help you give people which I greatly admire and learn from as well, You would have won me over for life with that statement alone.

What the FK is it with people and coiled copper tube??
Have they No clue at all whatsoever about surface area and heat transfer for a start and worked out that a 4" bit of pipe has so much more ability to absorb heat than the spread out bit of copper tube they throw on top of an open fire which is about 99% inefficient to start with?  Ugggh!  If I look at one more clown with coiled copper tube I'm going to throw up!

NO, that 10 Ft of 3/4 copper pipe thrown on on a fire is going to do jack all to heat your swimming pool. The losses from the inevitable above ground pool through the sides and evaporation alone are going to exceed the piddling about of heat you are putting in the thing which probably isn't even 1Kw. You'd be better off throwing an electric jug in there..... Or pumping the water through a car radiator with the electric fan going on a hot day to get a better heat rise in the water.

I have to get onto the seals I need so I can get the 200Kw heater I have converted from gas to waste oil going.  It will probably be about the 2nd heater on YT that will actually work!

Anyway.....

Perhaps you could help with a couple of other things?....

The base problem I have with these controllers is I don't even understand what they can do.  I recognise it is the same as asking what can you do with a computer but the fact is I am ignorant and really don't understand their capabilities or potential.  Do you know of any sites or white papers on  these things written for ignorant morons... IE, me, that could help me get the most fundamental and basic understanding?

Could you link to your supplier for the boards and do you have any recommendation of a startup kit that would be appropriate for the sort of use we would have for them?  I know they can control a heap of things but something relevant to this would be good and also something that could switch valves etc from temp inputs? Any other shields you could recommend for practical or training purposes?

Finally, are there any places on the web you can download simple programs to get one started with the idea and concept and could modify from there.
Forgive my ignorance if it is a stupid proposition but it would be great if there were programs written which one could basicly copy and paste and start from a known good base and work and modify from there.

Thanks for your input with these things. I rarely understand what you write about them but it makes it no less interesting.  :0)
At very least you motivate me to want to educate myself more about them.

DamonHD

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #81 on: November 16, 2016, 03:25:10 AM »
Is this any help for your reading list?

https://www.arduino.cc/

Note that there are MANY suppliers for this kit, name and no-name, and putting some versions together requires fewer than 10 components anyway, so if you can fab your own boards or solder stripboard then maybe you don't even need to buy boards beyond initial prototypes once you understand what you are doing.

My Arduino-based kit, eg in the smart radiator valves I'll be flogging later this week, with EEPROM and Flash and a couple of kbytes of RAM, uses a base draw of a few microwatts, up to hundreds including amortised costs of driving motors.  My Raspberry Pi (2) that helps manage my off-grid system and runs my Internet servers and is full Linux machine with 1GB of RAM, etc, uses generally under 1 watt.  Also very very good and cheap kit, but a world away in terms of applications:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/

Rgds

Damon
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Bruce S

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #82 on: November 16, 2016, 09:16:08 AM »
I've been following this,even wanted to reply a few times,,,BUT work keeps getting in the way :-D.
To further help, there's even a helper program you can work with long before you purchase a unit.
Go to this website
https://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/Software

There's even a download for Linux (which is what I use at home). It's even portable, I run it from a 1Gig USB.

I like running it for programs before I load it up on the unit.

Hope this helps
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

OperaHouse

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #83 on: November 16, 2016, 09:23:07 AM »
I'm starting a thread for these general questions about getting started with UNO.

Mary B

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #84 on: November 16, 2016, 06:10:09 PM »
We had this go round on the corn burner forum(sadly gone). Guys claimed putting a coil of copper in the corn stove gained heat without using more fuel to maintain the room hot air temp... even after showing them the physics formulas they still claimed these huge heat gains...If you remove heat from the fire to heat water then less heat is now available to heat the air in the heat exchanger! Only ones that that actually reclaimed heat were in the exhaust path and that created condensation and corrosion issues when burning corn!

george65

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #85 on: November 16, 2016, 08:42:17 PM »

Thanks everyone for the reading suggestions and heads up.
I get it now. And also that I am incredibly thick at times as well.  No secret there.

Anyway now I'll have to look in what to learn. So far it seems there are 3 basic levels, Rasberry pi, uno and nano. Maybe I'll start with the uno even if it is overkill and costs a few bucks more. I'll look at a kit with a couple of spare boards. They seem to be under 6 bux each on fleabay.

I think this will be my xmas present. Give me something to play with and learn.

george65

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #86 on: November 16, 2016, 08:51:43 PM »
Guys claimed putting a coil of copper in the corn stove gained heat without using more fuel to maintain the room hot air temp... even after showing them the physics formulas they still claimed these huge heat gains...

I have seen this type of thinking in many things particularly on the net. People get an idea in their head and nothing you can say, demonstrate or do will change their minds. They will even admit the physics are right but still claim some magic happening taking place that makes their admitted impossibility real.
I have seen some real doozy discussions over HOH /browns gas, fuel Pellets you put in your tank, free energy  and other nonsense which people are singularly minded ignorant to all evidence it is rubbish. Not only are they convinced of the fantasy, they are stupefied why anyone else should even question, let alone disparage it.

It can be quite scary sometimes how one track minded people can be on the most ridiculous beliefs when there is so much proof what they are espousing cannot physically be possible. 

OperaHouse

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #87 on: November 17, 2016, 11:16:25 AM »
And think of a solar panel, draw current from it and it cools down.

ontfarmer

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #88 on: November 18, 2016, 07:04:06 AM »
Read  " Getting started with  UNO "  found out that pin 13,  blinking light on mine was not programed.  Followed the instructions that you gave  ( must of got lucky ) it changed just like you said.
 

OperaHouse

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #89 on: November 21, 2016, 08:45:39 AM »
Been doing some slumming on ebay and found these four channel opto-isolators cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191549940263?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

These would make a much easier build.  They use a 5.1K pullup resistor for drive.  t would be easy to parallel another resistor under the board or parallel two channels to get higher drive.  There are not any suitable FET modules at this time for water heating, but hard wiring a couple FET is pretty easy. he IRF520 ones have too low a voltage and the IRF540 ones have no heat sinking and the copper  traces are too small for the current.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 09:02:46 AM by OperaHouse »

ontfarmer

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #90 on: November 21, 2016, 10:48:28 AM »
Just ordered the  4 channel opto-isolater modules.

Thanks

ontfarmer

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #91 on: November 27, 2016, 03:34:40 PM »
[quote author=OperaHouse

These would make a much easier build.  They use a 5.1K pullup resistor for drive.  t would be easy to parallel another resistor under the board or parallel two channels to get higher drive.  There are not any suitable FET modules at this time for water heating, but hard wiring a couple FET is pretty easy. he IRF520 ones have too low a voltage and the IRF540 ones have no heat sinking and the copper  traces are too small for the current.

I ordered the  four channel opto-isolators that OperaHouse  found they are coming from
Hong Kong hope to have them in a couple weeks. This will be great to see them work. I
will let you know when they arrive.

ontfarmer

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #92 on: December 01, 2016, 05:27:16 PM »
While waiting on parts to get here,  have any of you guys put together a system to circulate
hot water ?  What kind of a pump is best,  rad to pump the water through ?

ontfarmer

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #93 on: December 18, 2016, 06:51:16 AM »
I would like to thank OperaHouse  and you other ones for the help received on my project.
Have run into some health problems, maybe a bit of time before get back at it.

Thanks

george65

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #94 on: December 18, 2016, 07:55:19 AM »

I was reading over this thread again today.
I would really like to build one of these but it's just way too far over my head. Seems like the posts here are like 1 in 3 out of the full discussion. :0)
No way I can figure it out without a connection diagram and parts list.
 Been looking to see if I can find something with them for about 4 hours today but can't find anything except ripoff priced commercial units.
I'm really surprised there aren't a load of people wanting to do this. I think a few have had the idea and been put off. I must have read 50 threads where people asked and then got people whining about not efficient and suggesting other things instead of just answering the question asked.
Hell of a lot easier to run wires to a standard heater than fool around with pipes and plumbing and other things for abortion or tube type heaters and a lot cheaper with power too.

Ah well, Maybe there is a cheap Chinese board I can find. No luck so far. 

Bruce S

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #95 on: December 19, 2016, 10:51:00 AM »
george65;
I can be daunting to say the least. Getting back into writing programs for me is crazy hard.
I have to overcome my own short comings just to stay focused.
I've learned the hard on track with what I'm working on , not go play with a another one.
THAT can be the problem with an device that is so useful and cheap.

A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

ontfarmer

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #96 on: December 24, 2016, 03:29:26 PM »
  Merry Christmas to everyone

  The very best in 2017

OperaHouse

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #97 on: December 24, 2016, 05:07:35 PM »
Hope the new year finds you in good health and ready to continue with the project.  Have you added more space heaters to the array?

ontfarmer

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Re: Control for heating with solar off grid no batteries
« Reply #98 on: December 26, 2016, 11:06:28 AM »
The space heaters are still the same two  750 watt  240 volt.   Have had a lot of snow and
overcast with no sun in December.  Maybe in January with the days getting longer it will be better.