Author Topic: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.  (Read 15837 times)

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sarscott

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Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« on: June 17, 2010, 02:55:44 PM »
Hello,  I have a Rascal scooter I am trying to repair.  The controller is a Curtis PMC 1208 2312 that does not repond to input from the hand lever/accelerator.  The fuse was blown and I have replaced that but yet the controller does nothing.  Where would I start in trouble shooting this controller board?  In a related post I read that the FET's preclude the starter relay so would I start replacing those first?  Thanks in advance for any help.  Update:  Well I just plugged the board back in and now the board started smoking and burned the pcb.  I will upload a picture as soon as I figure out how to do so. Sincerely Scott Hankus
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 03:25:14 PM by sarscott »

sarscott

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Re: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2010, 05:28:37 PM »
Here is a link to a picture as I do not know how to post pictures on this forum:

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0BwEscSB_MZQRMjU0YzNmZWYtMGI4NC00YTA1LTgwOTgtODNmMzNlNDNmNTk0&hl=en

« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 05:32:01 PM by sarscott »

Bruce S

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Re: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2010, 07:22:13 AM »
Hello,  I have a Rascal scooter I am trying to repair.  The controller is a Curtis PMC 1208 2312 that does not repond to input from the hand lever/accelerator.  The fuse was blown and I have replaced that but yet the controller does nothing.  Where would I start in trouble shooting this controller board?  In a related post I read that the FET's preclude the starter relay so would I start replacing those first?  Thanks in advance for any help.  Update:  Well I just plugged the board back in and now the board started smoking and burned the pcb.  I will upload a picture as soon as I figure out how to do so. Sincerely Scott Hankus

With the smoke coming out, I'm thinking your best bet would be to obtain a new controller. Most of the time once smoke comes out of them the controller is easier/safer to buy than repair.
What is your electronics skill level?

Bruce S
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sarscott

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Re: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2010, 12:45:21 PM »
I have never had any formal training with electronics besides some basic circuit design in physics classes.  I have fixed an xbox and xbox 360 that required soldering on the motherboard.  I found a replacement board for $229.00 on a separate website.  From what I read this board is hard to fix because of the fragile leads on the board.  I probably damaged this board beyond repair with the burn mark in the pcb.  Thanks for your response.  Sincerely, Scott H.

sarscott

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Re: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2010, 09:01:12 PM »
Anyone know of any other motor controllers that will work in place of the Curtis PMC 1209 2312?  I did some research and new motor controllers are $200.00 less in price.  I would rather save the $200.00 and have a new motor controller.

Bruce S

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Re: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2010, 06:20:41 AM »
Anyone know of any other motor controllers that will work in place of the Curtis PMC 1209 2312?  I did some research and new motor controllers are $200.00 less in price.  I would rather save the $200.00 and have a new motor controller.
Try craigslist in your area. It can be your friend :).
Zap may see this he's really good at finding things.

Best of Luck!
Bruce S
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zap

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Re: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2010, 09:35:57 AM »
There are controllers out there that could replace your Curtis but for $29 you won't get the safeguards of the Curtis and how many OEM functions will you lose?
Being a mobility scooter, you need to consider the safety factors you may be giving up not to mention the difficulty of figuring out the wiring for hooking up an aftermarket controller.

I assume the $229 price you found was at http://www.csldirect.com?  If you haven't already, you might want to contact them and inquire on a price for repairing your board or trading yours in.
Do you have a local mobility scooter repair shop?

Barring any of the above, Bruce's suggestion of craigslist seems the cheapest.

sarscott

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Re: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2010, 02:31:27 PM »
Thanks for your help.  I will contact CLSdirect about having my board repaired or doing a trade in for a discount.  I will search craigslist as well.  There are many local scooter repair shops in my area so I will have to do some research calling these places one by one.  Thanks again.

sarscott

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Re: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2010, 01:51:15 PM »
I contacted csldirect.com and the $229.00 is the repair cost for the controller.  They do not accept trade in boards.  Thanks for your help.

tahirh20

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Re: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2010, 02:33:40 AM »
i can help you, last Friday smoke come out from my lark4 mobility scooter's Curtis pmc 1208-2349. I have successfully repaired it
tahir20

Asking people to venture away from the open forums, especially on your first post, is considered bad form...
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 07:41:02 AM by DanG »

longtom

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Re: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2010, 02:09:03 PM »
I was browsing the internet and ran across your thread here by accident so I registered to say this one thing.

I have the same board and I can help you if you follow my instructions.  I won't be back but you can reach me at chestr@bestmail.us.

As indicated by your photo, there is a large capacitor (1000 uf 50 volts) on the other side of the burn mark (Red Circle).  That will need to be de-soldered and replaced.  You can find them for a dollar on ebay.  Make sure the stripe on the capacitor (negative terminal) is facing away from the large black boxes at the top of the board.  These are relays.

Before and after you de-solder the capacitors, chean the area religiously with denatured alcohol religiously.  Remember to clean again after desoldering to get underneath where the caps were.

While you're at it, replace the other capacitor as well.  I think they are under-rated for this board (which is straight junk and cheaply built, to be honest).  Try to buy one with a higher uf rating and the same general diameter.  If you really wanna get tricky and the ones you get are too large you can solder leads to them so they hang out but make sure and wrap the wires real good with tape or do what I do and get some glue that dries pliable or silicone and place a dab on the connections to ensure that they don't contact anything.  Then zip tie the cap to something so it doesn't swing around.

The company tried to rip me off by charging me $450 for a new board, made of junk parts from Mexico for around 3 to 5 US dollars cost to manufacture.  It's a crock of $#|+ and it's price gouging and should be illegal.

That's because that's what they charge MediCare for their junk.

Also there is a small pathway on the board that looks to have been severed due to the burn as indicated by the small red line I have drawn.  This can be easily fixed by soldering a jumper wire of between 18-22 gauge between the points indicated by the thick red arrows I have drawn.  I have no idea what the voltage is on that pathway so you need to check it and if it's more than that choose a wire that's large enough to take the juice or it will get hot and melt it's insulation.



Do these two things and your board will be back in shape in no time.

I hope I caught you soon enough.

You gotta do what you gotta do when they wanna charge so much for a crap board.

Send me a pic on email when you're done.  If I get bored later I'll show you the massive hole my capacitor made in the same board.  You got lucky.

Good luck.

longtom

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Re: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2010, 02:14:58 PM »
It may also be that one of those relays with the rusty spots behind it is gone bad so as soon as you reinstall everything (I hope you marked your wires before removal or took a photo!) IMMEDIATELY test three things -

drive motor goes and stops correctly
you can HEAR the electric brake engage and disengage
and the electric seat lift goes up and down.

If one of these things doesn't work the relay will need replace immediately.  If it's stuck closed in any of these functions, it could have burnt up your capacitor so check them well and preferably with a multimeter.  The pictures of the circuits are printed on the outside of the relays.

longtom

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Re: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2010, 02:20:10 PM »
One more thing, if one of the relays is bad unhook the batteries right away until you replace it.

Basil

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Re: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2010, 03:45:02 PM »
This I love.
A newbie comes in and saves the day for someone and others in the future. Maybe//
Caps do go bad but something up stream more than likely caused it to go bad. Check the relays good as longtom said.
longtom
The jumper is a great idea. He may need to scrap the burnt path off in case of a carbon trail to it.
That is remove the part near the cap he bypasses. If all works good then he can recoat it all.

longtom

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Re: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2010, 09:31:35 AM »
That poke was quite uncalled for.

It just so happens I have repaired the same board.  So sue me.  Is that wrong that I used google and surfed in off the web?

I'm sorry I'm a newbie on your forum but I ain't no newbie in my field.  I've been repairing circuit boards for so many years I can't even count any more.  I used to build up boards with exoxy, resin, and fiberglass that had bullet holes and burns through half the board back in the day.

If you know so much why didn't you help him out in the first place?

Instead you elected to take a jab as someone who cared enough to go through the trouble to help like what I did was uncalled for or I was intruding on your personal private forum or something.

That's all I have to say.  I don't like forums because of people like you who take the time to poke at others genuinely inclined to help out his fellow man.

I believe I made my point.

I'm very sorry I intruded on your forum.  You can have it back now.

TomW

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Re: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2010, 09:49:26 AM »
That poke was quite uncalled for.
Uh, What poke?

I read the whole thread and did not see anything like a poke?

That is why we have that "quote" button so we know who is responding to what.

It was a great post. First timer or not!

Thanks for the post but I am confused on what offended you?

Tom
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RP

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Re: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2010, 04:15:33 PM »
Unfortunately, I suspect Longtom read "This I love. " as sarcasm although it sounded like a genuine compliment to me...

red5950

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Re: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2015, 07:42:37 PM »
i have the same controller on my scooter.  mine will only run in reverse.  i have not used it in ten years  at that time it ran in reverse but not forward.  when i got new batteries it would run only run in reverse but now at full speed.  i took the potentiometer off tinkered with it and it still runs in reverse but the speed is controllable. i have measure the output on the hand controller it will show continuity on whichever side that i have it turned to. so i am assuming that is not the problem.  i used to do television and electronic repair years and years ago.  i can trace electrical circuits etc.  my problem i have no idea where to start or what to check. is there any way to check out to make sure that it is the motor control,  and are they repairable or do i just buy a good one off of ebay.  any help would be greatly appreciated

dnix71

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Re: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2015, 11:06:35 PM »

oztules

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Re: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2015, 02:09:41 AM »
I used to repair them for our stuff over a decade ago, near forgotten them ... until about a month or so  ago when I cleaned out the shed, and threw 4 of them out.... I will never need them again..... so I don't have one to go over with you.

I forget too much now.. but. You have speed control, so the pwm chip ( second in from bottom right corner.......... relays to the top) is fine, and that is the only component not replaceable.. it is a pmc chip.... all the rest are off the shelf chips.

The 339 beside the pmc chip is fine, it pwm's the fets. The totems are fine, they drive the fets... so your problems are that the transistor that turns on the reverse relay is probably toast..... up near the relays..... forget how they drive them now, but I kinda remember they had micro switches in some models  for F/R, and the pot controlled  fwr/rev on others.... your sounds like the latter.... check all things off board that can cause reverse to kick in too... micro switches if it uses them for f/r.

So find the tranny that controls the rev relay ( pop the top of the relays if you have to to check for fused contacts too), and find out if it is short, or the driver for it is causing the trouble.... trace back to find the comparator it uses to control this function, it may be shot, or the voltage set level may be wrong for whatever reason, so all pot settings make it think reverse... that kind of thing is what we need.

The fact you have speed control is good, that means the relay away from the other two is ok, as that turns on the power... so there is not much to check.... but I recall it is convoluted sequence there for the pot loss and direction.... a CRO is almost a must for this stuff.... it can be really simple... or can be days to find a simple problem, but most of your board is fine, so thats a ripper start..

There are no flywheel diodes, as it uses the fets to achieve this too..... this is why you have 8 where four would have been enough... so if your circuit tracing, this may explain a bit... they turn on when the drivers turn off etc etc etc cheaper than diodes, but comes with frailties too.

best of luck, and sorry I no longer have a board to remember from.....would only be a few months I'm sure.... dammit.



..........oztules
Flinders Island Australia

OperaHouse

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Re: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2015, 10:55:52 AM »
" I don't like forums because of people like you who take the time to poke at others genuinely inclined to help out his fellow man."

 I don't like forums either because people seem to take everything the wrong way from what it was intended.  I post and get crap. The people that actually use what I post likely wander in from some search and say, " That makes sense," and never post a reply.  If you want gratification, the internet is no place to come to.  I post because these forums are my "cloud" where I store my notes.

The OP should post their country because the help that can be given is different if they are in Tiera del Fuego or Indiana no place.  If US I would consider repairing it for you.

oztules

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Re: Curtis PMC 1208 2312 not responding.
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2015, 02:50:15 AM »
My crap memory is worse than I feared... I was thinking of the 1203... not the 1208. They came from floor scrubbing machines, advance machines had the pot control, and clarke had the micro switch control... same card but a few different resistors was the only difference.

The 1208 was a smaller version... but very similar in operation, same pwm chip, and uses 339 for the final to the totems. It still has the three relays, the separate one for ignition turn on, and the other two together for F/R.

I did build a replacement board for the 1208.... like this, as we had too many failures

9210-0

Sadly, it looks the same footprint, works the same, but totally different in it's operation internally... only uses 339 and 324 and 358 as the chips.... no pwm chip.. so don't think it's circuit is similar in the f/r area either.... but will see what I can find.

 I will try to find out if I have any sign of stuff that may help you.... not hopeful, but never know.

...........oztules


(DamonHD: trying to fix your post to reattach the attachment!)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 06:39:02 AM by DamonHD »
Flinders Island Australia