Author Topic: Winco LLC5000H generator, low output  (Read 3009 times)

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madlabs

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Winco LLC5000H generator, low output
« on: October 30, 2016, 01:56:38 PM »
Howdy Folks,

Off grid and in a cloudy/rainy spell. Of course, that's when I discover the output voltage of my generator is low! I'm getting 115 and 230V and it drops as low as 90VAC under any sort of load. The generator is a Winco LLC5000H. Engine speed is not too low and load is not too great. The trouble shooting guide in the owners manual says the diode, the field coil or the stator. Any ideas which is most likely? I'm trying to determine a course of action, if it is the stator, probably too expensive to fix. Field coil maybe and diode, sure no problem.

Thanks!

joestue

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Re: Winco LLC5000H generator, low output
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2016, 01:58:50 PM »
Brushed or brushless?

Check that the capacitor is what it's supposed to be if it's brushless.


OperaHouse

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Re: Winco LLC5000H generator, low output
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2016, 09:17:38 AM »
Looking at the schematic, it is brushless and does have a capacitor.  Wonder why they didn't mention that.  I would suspect the capacitor.  The capacitor can be checked by putting a 60W lamp in series and connecting to AC.  I have had to flash the rotors on some to remagnetize them, but those usually started out with fairly low voltage.  Diode can only be checked if one lead removed, usually burried in varnish.

madlabs

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Re: Winco LLC5000H generator, low output
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2016, 02:30:01 PM »
The cap checked out. I did the VOM test and then did a 350VDC leakage test. It's capacitance is 38.4uF, well within tolerance. The rotor, exciter and stator all seem to ohm out OK. It's a little hard to tell for sure, as the resistance is low and trying to get a good connection isn't easy. However, the resistances are very close and if they were too low I'd expect to see some burnt windings.

The rectifier passes a low voltage VOM test. Since it is a 1200V, 25A diode, I decided to try a higher voltage test on it. At 400VDC it will pass the full voltage one way but still allows 35V to pass the other way. I had a 1000V, 12A diode laying around and it only passed 5V backwards. So, since everything else seemed OK I found a diode at Mouser that should work, 1/2 the price of the dealer one. What do you guys think, is the diode bad?

Thanks gents!

joestue

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Re: Winco LLC5000H generator, low output
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2016, 03:32:48 PM »
35 volts into a 1 Meg ohm meter is 35 micro amps. If your meter is 10 megs then that's 3.5 uamps of leakage current. Good enough....

madlabs

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Re: Winco LLC5000H generator, low output
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2016, 04:03:24 PM »
Ugh. So you think it's good? Any other ideas?

I'd say thanks, but yer bursting my bubble...  :o

joestue

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Re: Winco LLC5000H generator, low output
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2016, 10:49:21 PM »
your 12 amp diode can handle the stress, might as well try it.

madlabs

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Re: Winco LLC5000H generator, low output
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2016, 08:42:11 AM »
You think the 1000v, 12a could working in place of the 1200v, 25A?

joestue

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Re: Winco LLC5000H generator, low output
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2016, 01:13:25 PM »
do you think the wires that make up the rotor can handle 12 amps? if you figure 200 watts lost in the rotor coil, how many volts and amps is that?

anyhow what is the capacitor supposed to be? i've heard these brushless generators are rather sensitive to it.

phil b

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Re: Winco LLC5000H generator, low output
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2016, 11:09:29 PM »
The diagram for the 5000H \C shows 2 rectifiers on the stator. Maybe yours does too?

It might be worthwhile to flash the stator before buying another cap. Spider wire and a 9 volt battery worked for me.

Phil

madlabs

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Re: Winco LLC5000H generator, low output
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2016, 09:17:56 AM »
My unit only has one diode and the parts list says there is only one standard direction diode and no reverse diode. The diode is coming, I might as well put it in before I put it back together. If no joy, I will indeed try flashing the stator. However, my understanding of that is no output not low output if the stator has lost it's residual magnetism. The cap is listed in the troubleshooting guide for no output, not low output. Could it account for low output? Also, as written above, the cap passed every test I could throw at it.

Thanks!

dnix71

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Re: Winco LLC5000H generator, low output
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2016, 10:54:58 AM »
I have a 2-stroke 1kw portable generator that was putting out low after being in storage for a long time. It was running just a little bit slow, but I didn't notice that at first. After putting in fresh gas/oil mix the rpm went up a little and then it worked correctly.
The difference in rpm wasn't much. It may be some kind of syncronous a/c motor that won't put out at all if the frequency slips too much.

madlabs

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Re: Winco LLC5000H generator, low output
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2016, 02:17:23 PM »
dnix, I don't think that low RPM is the issue. I've had this genny for almost 20 years and it sounds right. When I put it back together with the new diode I will check the RPM if the output isn't improved. I didn't check the frequency when it was running, but low RPM should be seen there is that is the case. Thanks for the suggestion!

madlabs

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Re: Winco LLC5000H generator, low output
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2016, 01:46:23 PM »
And the winner is....

dinx71!!

After replacing the diode, testing everything again I put it back together and no joy. Output still too low. So I pulled it apart AGAIN and checked everything AGAIN. Then I remembered dinx71's advice and checked the frequency. Was indeed too low, about 57Hz unloaded. Turned the governor up to 62.5Hz as recommended and bingo! Voltage back up, and only sagged to 230V loaded with about 35.KW* and frequency at 59.9Hz.

Thanks a ton my friend for both the help and the lesson! And I can now field strip this genny upside down and drunk on a dark night!

Edit: Ah, that would 3.5kW.  Upping the frequency didn't give the set THAT muvh of a boost!  :o
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 02:18:57 PM by madlabs »