Author Topic: wind turbines haters  (Read 4055 times)

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super64

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wind turbines haters
« on: February 27, 2017, 11:23:10 AM »
hello everyone .

i was wondering why there is too much negativity when it comes to small to medium scale wind turbines .
I know so many companies are trying to make some money so most small wind turbine are scam and medium scale wind turbine are not very cost effective.
PV are getting cheap as the cell production is subsidized by china 
But  both do require a good location to start with.
Both need some sort of maintenance.
PV are more inefficient than wind turbines, and require more space for the same power production.
But you can’t find any bad reviews of PV .but wind turbines kill birds, polar bears, decrease property value of the whole neighbourhood, increase insurance fees ,fire risk ,noise complains …you name it .



« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 12:46:13 PM by super64 »
assumption is the mother all failure .

To Alcohol! The cause of... and solution to... all of life's problems.

Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!

Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forty percent of people know that.

DamonHD

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2017, 11:54:08 AM »
Please be very very gentle on the politics here.

We don't want to get it on us, of any flavour.

Rgds

Damon

Bruce S

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2017, 11:58:15 AM »
DamonHD;
Nicer than me, I'd lock this thread quick.
OP, unless you have verifiable proof of this this.
DO NOT point fingers.


I'm sure you're not trying to incite but ,,,
Bruce S
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super64

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2017, 12:08:37 PM »
freedom of speech  ;D
assumption is the mother all failure .

To Alcohol! The cause of... and solution to... all of life's problems.

Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!

Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forty percent of people know that.

super64

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2017, 12:13:17 PM »
But really  type wind turbine on youtube .

my fav "Best Wind Turbine CRASH/FAIL Compilation HD 2016 "
assumption is the mother all failure .

To Alcohol! The cause of... and solution to... all of life's problems.

Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!

Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forty percent of people know that.

DamonHD

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2017, 12:41:12 PM »
There is no freedom to speak at FL's expense if it just winds people up.

Rgds

Damon

super64

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2017, 12:48:24 PM »
There is no freedom to speak at FL's expense if it just winds people up.

Rgds

Damon

ok edit it to be more about wind but really why alot of people are against wind power.

dont get me wronge iam a hugh wind fan but dont understand why ?
assumption is the mother all failure .

To Alcohol! The cause of... and solution to... all of life's problems.

Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!

Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forty percent of people know that.

Bruce S

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2017, 12:54:36 PM »
freedom of speech  ;D
---GM MODE---
This normally gets people into read-only!!
Do not tempt fate on a Monday  >:(.
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

george65

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2017, 02:18:39 PM »
Please be very very gentle on the politics here.

We don't want to get it on us, of any flavour.

Rgds

Damon

I would have argued for wind power and against the Op's statements but seeing the thread has already had the how you must think, what you must say finger waved before it gets started...... hardly any point is there?   ::)

Mary B

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2017, 02:28:58 PM »
Check your local zoning laws to see why wind is not popular... hopefully this is considered non political lol As neutral as I can be on the subject!

bart

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2017, 04:09:42 PM »
   You were fine until you brought up "Polar Bears". Now some are triggered.

paara

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2017, 07:12:32 AM »
There is nothing wrong with small/medium sized wind turbines as long as you place theme where you would place a large/imdustrial size wind turbine. The problem is that the small windturbines often are place low in dirty wind, where they wont work. It placed properly they work excellent

super64

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2017, 03:38:44 PM »
maybe some people got me the wronge way.

polar bears was just  trying to explain that some people will find anything to pick on wind turbines.

but realy there is a full article  about wind turbine bird/bats kill by the type of birds and numbers .



am just afraid that one day puting a turbine will be a crime .

am not selling fate , am not a man off fate .

i like wind turbines and hope it will not be banned in near future

assumption is the mother all failure .

To Alcohol! The cause of... and solution to... all of life's problems.

Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!

Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forty percent of people know that.

SparWeb

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2017, 09:54:08 PM »
OK, I think I get it.  The OP is just saying "WTF" with all the bad press on wind turbines...  well, we all wonder the same thing, too.
One of the problems is that WT's are big targets sticking up in the middle of nowhere.  Tends to attract attention - everyone's attention for miles around.
Another problem is the WT's have visible moving parts.  In this day and age where every machine has safety covers, this is unusual, and adds to the alarm for some folks. 
Particularly those who are easily alarmed.
Accident rates, bat mortality, tonnes of CO2 not emitted... these are all abstract notions and statistics that get played with until they support any argument.  Yeah this subject can generate lots of cynicism...  better not to go there.

Look, you just have to put it behind you, and get on with enjoying it.  Either it's the intricacy of a working machine, or the creation of energy and putting it to use, or the noble effort to do your part to stop creating greenhouse gases, or a hundred other good reasons that building such machines is fun and satisfying...  Do it!

I just saw your build thread started.  Looks like you didn't need my advice.  Let's go see what you're up to!
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, regulated by Xantrex C40, DIY 8ft diameter wind turbine, regulated by Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024

super64

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2017, 02:16:28 AM »
Thank you sparweb for understanding me .

if you saw my first thread ever in this fourm i was asking about safe ways to build a turbine .

because people scared me away from wind turbines .

just checking youtube was a bad experince for me .

so if i put a  wind turbine and somebody wanted to sue for no reason they will use all these false infomation availble as a proof of their point.

assumption is the mother all failure .

To Alcohol! The cause of... and solution to... all of life's problems.

Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!

Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forty percent of people know that.

Bruce S

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2017, 06:58:54 AM »
Ahh, now I see what you were trying to say.
Sorry about the heavy-handedness , BUT it wasn't the way you came across.

Cheers
Bruce S
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super64

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2017, 12:45:40 AM »
No problem man ,

the thing that got me was bat articles they even have numbers to support it

maybe we come up with a device to keep those bats safe from us  ;D

you bat killers all you care about is free electricty  ;D
assumption is the mother all failure .

To Alcohol! The cause of... and solution to... all of life's problems.

Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!

Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forty percent of people know that.

paara

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2017, 07:30:58 AM »
I have a pegasus 1500 (2m diameter) turbine. I have never seen a dead bird in the vicinity of my turbine. On the other hand,  I have removed 3 dead birds that have flown into a large livingroom window.

Bats i dont know. There are some, but I have never seen a dead one.

The turbine has been up for 2 years.

Gordy

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2017, 09:01:32 AM »
Super64, As a heavy equipment operator, I did the dirt work on 6 solar farms last year, from 30 to 55 acres. I can tell you that each one had to battle to be built. The not in my back yard attitude affects more than just wind mills ;-( 


Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2017, 10:41:38 PM »
Re: public opinion haters of windmills:  Part of a posting I recently made in the "Active Pitch Control" thread seems apropos here:

Quote
Any windmills at all are "controversial".  "Oh NO!  They KILL THE POOR BIRDIES!"  Note that this meme started showing up right after a plan was announced to build offshore windmills that would have been visible from the Kennedy compound on Martha's Vinyard.  All of a sudden windmills went from earth-saving carbon-replacing green tech to sky-mowers cutting down migrating flocks and hunting raptors.

In fact windmills don't have any substantial impact on animal populations - especially as compared to a lot of other human activity that's not about to stop.  And small mills have the blades come by often enough that the animals generally notice them and stay away when they're moving fast enough to be a hazard.

Windmills have several ways to annoy people that leads to some not-in-my-back-yard effects, leading to attempts to zone them away.  They are sky-graffiti to people who liked the view without them.  Their moving shadows in sunlight can cause flicker that is a problem for people with vertigo or epilepsy, or just be annoying.  The vortices shed by a slowly turning mill can cause infrasound, which at some frequencies acts directly on the body's physiology to produce anxiety.  A poorly constructed or installed mill can tip over or throw pieces at dangerous speeds.  Most of these things can be mitigated or eliminated by good design, some don't apply to small mills or sufficiently rural sites.

= = = =

Regarding current recommendations for installing windmills vs. other forms of renewable energy:

Ten or so years ago, especially just after the introduction of rare-earth magnets, homemade windmills were comparable in price to solar panels, and both were practical power supplies, even competitive with grid power in some remote locations on good sites.  Practical wind generators could be constructed, erected, and maintained by a reasonably healthy and handy person.  Wind and solar were comparable in price performance (perhaps wind somwhat ahead) and the two complemented each other nicely - with solar providing good output in clear weather and daytime, windmills in stormy weather and around the clock - but with many sites having especially good wind in the midafternoon to early evening.

Now we've had another decade of progress.  Solar photovoltaic is semiconductor based, and has been benefitting from both its own form of Moore's Law and economies of scale.  This has improved the price-performance ratio drastically - to the point that it is becoming competitive with grid power even in urban settings and without government subsidies.  (Ten years of Moore's Law is a LOT of improvement.)  Battery storage has also had substantial breakthroughs which are just being deployed, and is achieving economy of scale also, driven by the electric vehicle developments.  Improved batteries help both photovoltaic and wind, but photovoltaic benefits more.  Windmills, on the other hand, are electromechanical machines of forms that were well developed a century ago.  Since the introduction of neo magnets they have had only modest improvements - and most of those have been concentrated in the large, commercial windfarm, mills, where large engineering and construction costs can achieve payback.  Small, homebrew, windmills have improved little since the introduction of neos.

So these days photovoltaic tends to be the best place to put your initial effort at renewable energy generation - at least if you have a good site for solar.  Wind still complements solar, especially in bad weather, so you may find it practical to add it later.  Or if your site is sun-poor, wind-rich, and rural enough that NIMBY isn't a significant issue, perhaps wind still will make sense as your first step.  (And if you have running water you can tap it might beat the pants off either of them.)

electrondady1

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2017, 06:48:27 AM »
it's the shear size of commercial windmills  that have made the public leery of them . they dwarf any landscape. who would want to live next to one?

 

DamonHD

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2017, 06:53:28 AM »
I wouldn't want to live within ice-throw distance, nor within shadow/flicker range, but beyond that I'm pretty used to all sorts of industrial structures around me in town and country, from pylons to cow-sheds to silage mounds to TV transmission towers with flashing lights on.

Rgds

Damon

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2017, 04:49:22 PM »
it's the shear size of commercial windmills  that have made the public leery of them . they dwarf any landscape. who would want to live next to one?

Hear hear!

And the bigger the mill, the more power it produces per dollar of investment.  So they get bigger about as fast as engineering improvements allow.

Bruce S

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2017, 10:43:57 AM »
The really cool part , is watching a train load of the blades roll by heading out west.
Those blade cars dwarf even the coal carrying cars.

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SparWeb

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2017, 09:38:13 PM »
Quote
...Those blade cars dwarf even the coal carrying cars....

Poetry, Bruce.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

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midwoud1

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2017, 08:08:17 AM »
Max. blade  88,4 meters .Siemens

Diy . blade  !.35 meters.


Bruce S

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Re: wind turbines haters
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2017, 11:54:57 AM »
That 2nd picture is what they look like rolling through our town too.
Others are being moved the last mile via Semi . I'll see if I can garner a pic for here.
These dwarf the little 1.5Mw unit just out side of town here.

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