Author Topic: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules  (Read 3599 times)

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Harold in CR

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2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« on: March 09, 2017, 11:58:55 AM »
Just purchased a complete Leaf battery (48 modules) with under 10K miles. Will be delivered to Fl on Sat. the 11th of March. Whatever is inside ( cables, connectors, etc.) will probably also be available. I need some for myself, but, probably 30 modules will be available. Great for home backup or off grid-semi off grid, or e- vehicles, golf cars, etc. Each module measures approx. 9" X 11.5" X 1.25" . Weight per module approx 8 pounds. Voltage nominal 15.2.  16.4@ 4.20. 66A per module.

$115.00 per module + S&H through Fed-Ex max. 3 modules per pkg-cardboard box. Also, larger purchase can be shipped freight + S&H
 

george65

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2017, 06:39:42 PM »

48 modules @ $115 ea =over $5500 Plus Freight.
Pretty substantial purchase.
I would not have assumed these things were exactly think on the ground but I would also have not thought they would be quite that expensive either.

Can you elaborate on how you are going to set it up and use it?

Harold in CR

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2017, 07:40:05 PM »

 I plan on keeping 10 and selling the rest. Wiring up 7 cells will work perfectly for a 24V (22.5-29V) low to high Volt span on a 24V Inverter. These modules have 4 cells all individually separable to connect in various voltages. I have used a 20S pack in my homebuilt motorcycle with good success.

Warpspeed

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2017, 11:07:08 PM »
I would definitely be interested, except getting them to Australia by any method is just impossible except bringing in a whole car or complete battery by container.


Harold in CR

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2017, 10:08:20 AM »
 
 Warpspeed, I am presently trying to put together a sale into Brisbane with another possible customer. Send me details and maybe we can put you 2 or more together with a shipment. Maybe there is a branch of the Aus EV association in your area. You might visit them and ask if anyone is interested in sharing a purchase/shipping.

 Duncan, from the diyelectriccar forums, had a complete Chevy Volt battery shipped into New Zealand for around $500.00 through a speed shop, I believe, as some of their import business.

Warpspeed

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2017, 10:47:06 PM »
I would be interested in ten cells, but am not in any particular hurry.
These will almost certainly need to come by ship in a container.
Work out what is possible with regard to shipping, and keep me in the loop.

One problem you may not be aware of is that any goods entering Australia that have a value over $1,000 Australian ($750.00 US) are liable for a 15% import duty.
So to avoid that, Individual shipments must be made up of less than 5 cells, possibly even only 4 depending on the exchange rate at the time.
Anyhow see what you can arrange from your end.

« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 11:05:07 PM by Warpspeed »

george65

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2017, 01:46:37 AM »
Warp, Have you looked on the local Fleabay?
Quick search found a heap of Priarse battery packs and even more of the inverters if they are any good for anything.
Don't know anything about the priarse packs but they would have to be comprable in price to importing  something.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Toyota-Prius-Main-Hybrid-Battery-NHW20-Fits-10-2003-05-2009-/192099074048?hash=item2cb9ff4000:g:beMAAOSw241Ymn4K

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TOYOTA-PRIUS-BATTERY-ZVW30R-MAIN-HYBRID-BATTERY-07-2009-10-11-12-13-14-15-/152328377306?hash=item23777a93da:g:ABcAAOSwB09YNM2F


http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Toyota-Prius-Hybrid-Battery-Pack-reconditioned-with-warranty-onsite-fitting/282364012274?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D777003%26algo%3DDISCL.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140117125611%26meid%3Dd52f18e569a1401e86fb916275d4bef0%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D7%26sd%3D172434545255

Couldn't find anything on the leaf but the major wreckers are on a parts ordering/ exchange system so you could get an idea of availability with one call.
Toymotor may be the best bet now as there are plenty of wrecked Priarse and camry Hybrids.

Don't know if you are wanting them for a mobile application but if for standby and you wanted some real  capacity at a price that would knock power walls out of the park, maybe something like this would fit the bill?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Solar-Battery-Lead-Acid-Traction-12V-3000AH-Deep-Cycle-Low-Maintenance-Like-New-/222431947845?hash=item33c9fa2c45:g:09MAAOSwa-dWsWys

They seem to have loads of them and I'm sure there would be similar places in every capitol.
Look like an economical storage solution to me.


Warpspeed

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2017, 02:00:11 PM »
Thanks George, I am really after lithium not lead acid or metal hydride.
Its for the usual home solar storage application.

The problem is that lithium batteries are classed as hazardous material and its very difficult to arrange shipping, especially overseas.
By the time I  add shipping and handling costs, and import duty to imported batteries that really knocks the edge off the value, plus there is always the risk that used batteries may be somewhat below full brand new performance.

I might be interested if the price is right, but to put this all into perspective (in US dollars).
Nissan leaf battery 7.5v 65 Ah = 488 watt hours for US$115 if picked up in Florida.
If I include import duty to Australia (but not shipping) that comes to US$132

I can buy locally brand new Winston (with one year warranty) 3.2v 100Ah = 324 watt hours for US$135
Now 488 watt hours are a lot more than 324 watt hours, about 50% more.

But shipping costs to Australia, plus the risk of degraded performance of second hand batteries will narrow that difference right down.
Is all the trouble and risk worth saving what will probably end up in the end being a minimal amount ?

If I was located in the US, I would grab these in a flash. 
But its not quite that simple being located half way around the world.

Harold in CR

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2017, 10:03:15 PM »

 I mistakenly put the wrong voltage in the original description. I had separated the cells in my first bunch of Leaf modules to get a higher voltage.  ::)

 These modules are 7.2V nominal @66Ahr each. Sorry about the wrong info.

Harold in CR

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2017, 03:29:31 PM »

 I need to move these modules, so, price drop to $105.00 + S&H. Still working on Aus shipping. People just don't respond to their own request shipping form submissions.  ::)

Warpspeed

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2017, 04:22:56 PM »
I have just ordered and paid for some brand new Winston 60 Ah cells. These are individual 3.2v cells, so two of them would be roughly the equal to one Leaf module.
These are brand new with a one year warranty, and cost $165 US dollars (per pair) delivered hassle free to my door all costs inclusive.

By the time 15% import tax is added, plus shipping costs, and the risk of a no warranty no return overseas purchase, I decided to go for brand new.
Even if you could match that price, they will still be second hand batteries compared to new batteries.






Harold in CR

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2017, 03:49:50 PM »
 Sounds like you made a wise choice. Good luck with your system.  8)

 Photos added.  BMS shown in battery has been sold.

Harold in CR

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2017, 07:16:30 PM »

OK. Got a set of 6 modules tested and here are the results. Each module was at 6.97 V. Charged them as a 6S set at 49.02V /8.17 V per module. Tested each half of module at 4.08 V each. Put in a total of 3036W so, divided up that's 61.707 Ahr per module @ 49.2V. If we had gone to 50.4 full charge, the total capacity would be right around 63Ahr/ module, right at what I was saying all along. These are as good as new modules.

I have not ever received bad feedback on any battery modules, Chevy Volt or Nissan Leaf that I sold.


Down to 24S Leaf battery. Just boosted charge to 7.49 -7.50V , approx 6 are 7.49, rest are 7.50. Would like to move at least 12 modules at $75.00 each + S&H. Under 12 modules are $85.00 each + S&H.

Warpspeed

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2017, 07:53:35 PM »
Yes indeed !
If I was living in the US I would have bought those batteries and been very pleased to do so.
But Australia is on the other side of the world, its just too far.

Harold in CR

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2017, 07:27:04 AM »

 Actually, shipping was not that difficult, or prohibitively expensive. It was the Aus govt., that is being bought off by Big oil that instigated the massive raise of import tariff on batteries.

 Too bad Elon Musk was 20 years late opening up the E-car revolution.

george65

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2017, 08:25:32 AM »

ALL other things aside ( and there are plenty of hurdles) until they can figure out how to get enough power to Charging stations that can recharge a vehicle in 60 Min or less and cater to the volumes normal service stations handle along Highways and other busy places where vehicles are a long way from home,  the electric "revoloution" is going to go about as far as the Biofuels revolution did.....  A few die hard enthusiasts.

As soon as the numbers and demand starts going up, so will the problems of recharging.
A tesla pulls 83A@ 415V or 157A @ 220V.  Thats more than a typical house is wired for and far more than they would typically use at any given time.
If 10 Cars want to recharge at a Maccas or Cafe/ restaurant along the highway, that's 1.5 Megawatt plus, what the place itself is using.
If the place wants to cater for 20 cars, the light poles are going to light up all right... Smoke, flames the whole bit.

Seems to me the entire electric grid is going to have to be massively upgraded to handle it _if_ the power is available form the power station in the first place.
Even if every home in the street is charging at night @ 32 A which would be a significant draw at any time, "Off peak Charging rates are soon not going to be "Off peak" any more and again, the amount of power a street would require to allow for this AND the existing and increasing power draw from other things means a HUGE restructuring of the power grid.

If you think power prices are high now...... Your petrol car might seem like a bargain to fill up.

Harold in CR

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2017, 01:02:15 PM »

 Have you read about solid state batteries, George ? This is just one new technology that is being produced.

 24M is a company that has produced way better than average battery technology AND changed up manufacturing to make production faster-easier-less expensive.

 If enough people put up solar panels and can charge from them, it will help with reducing demand on the grid. Yes, after hours will need to be dealt with for conserving/storing generated power. Flow batteries are being used for power station backup during peak demands. They could be stored anywhere alt energy is produced and used for powering homes, etc. after hours.

 Reducing USAGE is where this will all come into play.

 Just think about all the overhead canopies at all the gasoline stations that could have solar panels feeding batteries and charge cars. NO, they can't charge 10 cars at a time, but, every little bit will help.

 Mostly a LOT of people are just too lazy to help themselves, so, need these fast services to get them over the hump, while they play games on phones, facebook, twitter, etc. and waste a LOT of their lives on stupid crap.

 We all saw the effects of $5.00 gasoline and diesel. Got a LOT of people thinking, changing lifestyles. If anyone doesn't think this will happen again, just wait a little longer.

 Trump is undoing all the things that were finally starting to take effect on energy wastage and fossil fuels, because he was bought by the Koch brothers and other BIG OIL billionaires. I won't go into politics, so, don'y anyone respond to this last statement.

 I don't know about Aus, but, down here, in the jungle, gasoline is still nearly $5.00 a gallon and electricity, which I make part of myself, is nearing 30 cents per Kwh. We cut back to just 300 Kwh per month and am going much lower IF I ever get the damn crate that should have been here 2 months ago.

DamonHD

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2017, 01:08:19 PM »
Please be gentle on the politics in any direction...

Harold in CR

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2017, 02:25:35 PM »

 No problem. Tried to stop before it got worse. Not an easy thing to do.  ::) :-X

george65

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2017, 06:22:55 AM »

 Have you read about solid state batteries, George ? This is just one new technology that is being produced.

With respect Harold, there is ALWAYS some new Cutting edge, game changing world revolutionizing vaporware in the pipeline. About .5% of them (if that)  ever make it through the investor stimulating media feel good reports.  I learned a long time ago these " New technology's" are not worth a cracker till you can go buy them off the showroom floor. How many new revolutionary engines have you read about in the last 10, 20, or 30 years? how many of them amounted to ANYTHING.  None is how many. Last new engine design to be put into real use was the Rotary back in the early 70's.
Fact is every thing running around today bar the insignificant number of ev's still use steam engine technology at the heart of them.

 
Quote
If enough people put up solar panels and can charge from them, it will help with reducing demand on the grid.
Most people here at least have 2-5 Kw on their roofs. That's still going to be a powerful shortfall if everyone is trying to charge an electric car.
With houses and blocks getting smaller, the amount of space to put panels is very restricted and what about Unit blocks? Where my mate is there are 50 car spots and that's probably about half what is needed.  Can you imagine 50 cars in the one place plugging in? Many may only need 10Kwh say but multiply that times 50 and divide by 8 hours to charge.... World is going to run out of copper and Aluminium to make enough cables capable of carrying that sort of current to everyone.

Quote
Yes, after hours will need to be dealt with for conserving/storing generated power. Flow batteries are being used for power station backup during peak demands. They could be stored anywhere alt energy is produced and used for powering homes, etc. after hours.

What does this all cost? What are the spin offs of these things as far as resources, emissions, contamination etc in the cradle to grave lifecycle? I know things are always reported in the most favorable way possible but that's never the real picture. When you look into them objectively, a lot of these green and supposedly clean technologies are far worse than the the evil, terrible ones they are supposed to replace. What Pollution do they cause?
I'm wondering how all these tons of lead, lithium etc are going to go and how much of it will find it's way to the environment? anyone other than a dreamer would have to see by sheer numbers even a minuscule percentage is going to add up to a LOT of this stuff being released so we are back to square one and may just be better off with the emissions we have now.

 
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Reducing USAGE is where this will all come into play.

No one is good at reducing usage and again, you could use NO power other than that to charge your electric and you are still going to sucking down Gigawatts more power than before.

 
Quote
Just think about all the overhead canopies at all the gasoline stations that could have solar panels feeding batteries and charge cars. NO, they can't charge 10 cars at a time, but, every little bit will help.

Maybe... but honestly, I doubt it.
The reality is there is simply no practical way to offset the demand of these things. It would be huge and like nothing ever seen before.
I remember maybe  8-9 years back there was a LOT of concern with our electricity Grid. My Mates father was the CEO of the biggest utility in the country and they were having a heart attack over the increase in power demand due to the uptake of AC systems.  My mates father was concerned they were 18 Months away from Meltdown.  By a stroke of blind dumb luck, solar also started to be taken up quickly and the interest free schemes and higher FITS the gubbermint offered in the name of clean energy was really to try and prop up the grid by having localised power. It was touch and go there for a while but they scraped through.  Like my friends Dad whom had a massive heart attack and quad bypass and decided to call the job quits before it made him quit.

From what he has told me, there has still been relatively little spent on the grid and when the sun don't shine it's far from a 100% reliable proposition.
I reckon maybe as few as 5K electrics could cause a lot of concerns in the greater metro area.


I saw some articles last night on the web media about the UK banning Diesel and petrol car sales by 2040.  I thought what a total and utter wank which will never happen but I bet everyone laps it up like Koolaid. Much to my surprise, there were a significant amount of comments from people basically saying " Where is all the power going to come from?" Many cited rolling blackouts and problems with adequate power supply now and foresaw the problems when you at least doubled the demand.  A savvy few pointed out the huge infrastructure the electric transport sector would need and noted that power in their region either came from coal or nuke so even with nuke, the amount of waste piling up would quickly become a bigger problem that it is now.  And there is NO real soloution to nuke waste.

 
Quote
Mostly a LOT of people are just too lazy to help themselves, so, need these fast services to get them over the hump, while they play games on phones, facebook, twitter, etc. and waste a LOT of their lives on stupid crap.

CORRECT!
But.... I have seen reason for that to a degree.
I just purchased a new home.  In looking around I was amazed to see how homes built in the last 20 years are all dedicated to incompetent, useless people and cut the legs from under those that can change a lightbulb or tap washer themselves.  There is barely room in these places for a cheap screwdriver set let alone a practical place to put a proper tool set nor anywhere you could use it.
Every agent is putting the title of " Entertainer" on their homes which means anything practical is just not a possibility. And I'm talking about a house here, they are being out out done about 3:1 by flats and duplexes atm.
People are being dumbed down at a frightening rate because to a significant degree, they have no way to be independent and do things for themselves.
I had to move a long way from the city to get some space for a shed and workshop let alone decent garden. 


I $#|+ you not, I went to an auto parts store today and bought a couple of stop/ tail lamps for my trailer. The guy rang them up and asked if I needed them  fitted?  The sand went through my mental gears as I was trying to figure out WTF he was talking about fitting.  I finally asked ans said sorry mate, need what fitted. He held up the Pkt of tail light globes.  I just looked and said are your fing serious? He said yes we offer a fitting service.
I said great, next time my 4WD needs a clutch you can fit that because it's a bastard of a job and I don't want to do it again.
He said we don't do clutches. I said well it will be hard for you to fit those for me because they are for the trailer I just completely re wired this morning and it's at home.

I was in my filthy clothes, had filthy hands and the guy asks me if I need a tail light fitted?
Never been so insulted in all my life and I can tell you, there are plenty of people whom have gone out their way to insult me to the best of their ability!

 
Quote
We all saw the effects of $5.00 gasoline and diesel. Got a LOT of people thinking, changing lifestyles. If anyone doesn't think this will happen again, just wait a little longer.

Hmm. Americans complain about fuel prices much of the rest of the western world would think was a bargain.  It's regularly over $6 of your gallons here and that's cheap compared to the UK or NZ.  I have never cease to be amazed at the fixation Americans have with "gas" prices yet year after year the biggest selling Vehicle is a V8 f-150/250.  Seems people always want cheaper but rarely do you hear them talk of downsizing and using less?.
Hmm, you need a ute to haul bales of hay in the City or to drop the kids off and pick them up from soccer in right?
Also Amazes me how people in the US always seem to talk about the source of their oil being the middle east when the great majority of it comes from Canada.

[/quote] I don't know about Aus, but, down here, in the jungle, gasoline is still nearly $5.00 a gallon and electricity, which I make part of myself, is nearing 30 cents per Kwh. We cut back to just 300 Kwh per month and am going much lower IF I ever get the damn crate that should have been here 2 months ago.
[/quote]

Where my dad is 3.5 Hours from Sydney Fuel is cheap at $6.50 per gal ( More for Diesel!) and electricity is 36c Kwh but I think it just went up as did our power here.  I was looking at feed in tarrifs just last night and the highest anywhere ( with surprise , surprise, a high supply cost is 12C kwh. the sell rate from that company was .41C. Most FIT's are 6-8C.

It's all well and good to be green and environmental when big biz or Gummermints are making money but the second they stand to loose a buck, all goes out the window. If they really were committed to all they say, they would make it financially viable and fair for people to generate their own power.
I hope to be picking up 7Kw worth of panels  this weekend ( Providing the sellers hold true to their word which seems rare these days) and will be back feeding into my analogue meters so I get a 1:1 return on the power I generate instead of an insult.

I actually wouldn't mind an electric Run around. I have looked at  doing an EV conversion but it's cost would be way beyond something you'd just do for fun with no real return Value. I can run around now for nothing and keep all the greenwashed happy in my 3 Ton 4WD that runs on used Veg oil. Put some drums of oil in the back and do a 2500Km round trip once or twice a year with no problems.
Other than Novelty Value, there is no reason or benefit in an electric and loads of drawbacks as far as practicality goes.  For an electric, I would provide my own power for it either by panels or a Veg fueled Generator. Like Bio fuels, they are fine for the nutters like me and people like us that are happy to get off our arses and do something for ourselves.

As for mainstream use of EV's, looking into it I have realised that it's far from a matter of batterys, it's how are you going to generate the extra Gigawatts of power that would be needed for a largely electric private fleet. No matter how far they go or what battery's are in them, the power has to come from somewhere and the amount required would easily be a doubling of domestic consumption as it is now.

That's going to take a lot of solar panels and when it rains for a week or month, it's going to be a lot of power that has to be sent from afar.

Harold in CR

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2017, 08:34:51 AM »
 I always enjoy our discussions, George. Have to agree with much of what you say. However, it's not the fault of the customers with the power companies not doing major upgrades to the grid system for future needs. They just build enough for a couple or years growth without seeing the demands on the horizon.

 Living in a city or town will never be in my future. Down here, homes ?? are pretty much built with a sharing 4th wall. One unit catches fire and the whole string is lost.  ::)

 There was recently built, a major high voltage power line on high metal towers, just like what I used to work on. Our population is growing, same as elsewhere, and people just can't live without AC. We have none in our home, no heater as well. All the money is spent on shoddy upgrades in the cities while the campo is pretty much ignored. CR did recently open up another hydro facility, and we are producing nearly all the electricity from wind and hydro. No one is putting up larger transformers to alleviate burning up the very small ones that have been in use for many years.

 I have sections of  3/#6 aluminum service drop cables that have been so hot the insulation has imprints of the bare neutral wire nearly melted through to the hot legs. This was from a simple country house I bought here and immediately changed out to 3/#2 cable.

 You talk about batteries being expensive, yet, the salvage yards here are well stocked in states with large e-vehicle stock that are being wrecked. These can be bought at bargain prices, and, are growing fast, yet very few companies are building power blocks with salvage batteries. I have a buddy here that I buy and ship Chevy Volt and some Nissan Leaf modules to, that is building e-bicycles for clients. I want to convert a few 125cc-150cc motorcycles using these modules. We have thousands of them here and way too many 1 occupant cars on the road. I am waiting for a US customer to return home and purchase 14 of these Leaf modules, and I will ship the rest here for us to go off grid with utility backup, if needed.

 None of what you and I do is that difficult, yet, we have admirers that do nothing about their future energy needs. I have a spare Isuzu diesel engine and 3 60 gal barrels of used fryer oil sitting here, just in case. It's too heavy for my portable sawmill, so, I may set it up to run an induction motor/generator for powering a DC motor on the mill with cable leads. I will have plenty of battery power back up for that.

 All in, people just want more for less without paying the piper.  ::) ::)

 Back in the mid 70's I could see a demand that was not being addressed or planned for.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 01:02:54 PM by Harold in CR »

Bruce S

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2017, 09:28:44 AM »
Georeg65;
I have to take exception this this statement  8)
"And there is NO real solution to nuke waste."

Maybe what you meant was there's no real solution that the PTB's want to use? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Thorium is and remains a viable fuel.  A pier review paper was quietly published earlier this year that shows probably why they don't want to push it forward. At $80/Kg USD makes it kinda cheap. Since of course it will not Fizz on it's own, those U-233 rods that are piling up can be used to get things going. AND if the countries with long standing traditional Nuke plants do get going , countries like India are going pass them all up.


http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-future-generation/thorium.aspx

Long read but well worth the time IMO.

Bruce S
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DamonHD

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2017, 02:14:10 PM »
A source I trust says:

Quote
Earlier this week, UK environment secretary Michael Gove announced plans to ban the sale of new petrol and diesel cars by 2040.

The proposed ban, which may be less stringent than it first appears, has nevertheless sparked a deluge of news and comment. Many reports include concerns or inflated claims over the demand for power if the UK switches to electric vehicles (EVs).

Yet a wholesale move to EVs, in order to meet a ban on petrol and diesel cars, would add just 10% to UK electricity demand, new analysis from consultants Cambridge Econometrics shows. This would also dramatically cut car CO2 emissions, even after accounting for electricity generation.

and interestingly:

Quote
There are several unrealistic assumptions behind [ the ] misleading media narrative, which Carbon Brief covered in an earlier factcheck. Chief among them is the intuitively appealing idea that EV owners will all return home from work around the same time and immediately start charging their cars.

This simplistic view ignores the evidence from existing EV users. Some domestic customers already take advantage of dual-rate Economy 7 tariffs to charge their cars cheaply at night, while others plug in to public charging points while they are at work.

In fact, EV charging reaches a peak two hours later than expected, at 9pm, outside the period of overall peak UK demand, according to research for the electricity distribution firm UK Power Networks.

In addition, the research found that customers on time-of-use tariffs, where prices vary with the time of day, reduced their charging during peak periods by more than third, and up to 70% in some months, suggesting there is significant potential to shift demand in response to price signals.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-switch-to-electric-vehicles-would-add-just-10-per-cent-to-uk-power-demand

On the second point - smoothing the demand - and also providing enough places to charge at whatever rates are available, I'm quite keen on this idea (I pitched alongside the founder very recently):

http://www.earth.org.uk/note-on-ubitricity-EV-mobile-MPAN.html

tl;dr: this scheme can convert any London lamppost to a smart (slow, though faster than a normal home mains power socket) charging point in a matter of minutes.  A lot of slow charging cars spread out around the grid are probably OK to handle.

Rgds

Damon
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 02:24:40 PM by DamonHD »

Harold in CR

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2017, 04:27:59 PM »

 There are several European countries that have already stated or are about to state , that, ALL vehicles using gasoline or diesel will be banned by 2040. That's only 33 years away. I believe Volvo announced no IC engines in vehicles of the future, but, I can't find by what year they stated.

 I have heard many excuses for years, why the FLARE GAS, is burned off on every drilling rig, instead of being processed. Talk about air pollution from burning wood in homes for heat, while the greenies stop all logging possible, then have MAJOR wildfires that blacken the skies for days on end.

 Yeah, tell me how environmentally dirty the EV revolution is from mining. At least a spill won't contaminate waterways for years on end, like the wonderful Petroleum industry does.

dnix71

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2017, 05:28:15 PM »
Harold in CR Gasoline cars are not going to be banned unless those countries intent to return to the days of Romania and use horses. There are too many people in power now who write laws that defy logic and basic physics. California intented to require 10% of it's car sales to be purely battery powered, but that didn't happen. For that to happen, the poor would have to walk. Even the middle class can't afford pure battery powered cars that have a useful range. California offers financial incentives to buy electric cars http://www.businessinsider.com/california-valley-of-death-for-electric-cars-2017-6 and still people refuse or can't afford them. Worse yet, California as a state is broke and can't pay those "incentives" without borrowing more money. http://californiapolicycenter.org/californias-total-state-local-debt-totals-1-3-trillion/ The state's debt and unfunded liabilities is over 1/2 of its annual domestic product.

California ia also dependant on other states for its electricity. As of last year just under 1/3 was imported.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California But California can't properly deal with the small amount of solar it generates at the wrong time and place and is forced to give it away to protect the grid. Solar doesn't store or transport like fossil fuels do.

Instead of letting a free market decide what makes sense the state has demanded production quotas and set prices for renewables that otherwise wouldn't pay for themselves and are unreliable because the wind and sun cannot provide power anywhere/anytime like fossil fuels do. http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40434392

On a personal note, the Chevy Volt is a stupid joke. I own a 1995 Toyota Corolla DX 4-door with a 1.8l engine. everything still works, the a/c, power windows even the original cassette tape player. 8) It gets over 40 mpg on the highway. I paid $1500 for it and another $3000 for repairs and upgrades. It cost me 1/8 what a Volt would and gets the same mileage using cheap 87 octane watered down American 10% ethanol gasoline. I drive this car every day. Work and back is 33 miles. I might even have more power available than the Volt, as I added a 130 amp alternator and installed a 1kw sine wave inverter inside.

george65

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2017, 06:48:18 PM »

 There are several European countries that have already stated or are about to state , that, ALL vehicles using gasoline or diesel will be banned by 2040. That's only 33 years away. I believe Volvo announced no IC engines in vehicles of the future, but, I can't find by what year they stated.

Yes but a politician making a promise to appease the greenwashed is in fairness a LOOOONG way from making it happen.  Same for a car company. Make a promise, win the favour of some potential purchases and if it doesn't work out, even if dredged up in 30 years and they fail with it, there will be plenty of things they can spin doctor it with. Might even be " That was a common misconception at the time but now we all know thee is no way in hell we can generate and distribute that much power".  Or maybe it will all come good and they will keep their promise.
Seems all win and no drawback to me and the Current board will be long gone in 30 years so what do they really care anyway.

 
Quote
I have heard many excuses for years, why the FLARE GAS, is burned off on every drilling rig, instead of being processed. Talk about air pollution from burning wood in homes for heat, while the greenies stop all logging possible, then have MAJOR wildfires that blacken the skies for days on end.
 

Obviously I know nothing about flare gas but it seems to me that the oil companies would not loose a buck if thee were one to be made. May just be that flare gas is not economical to process and market.  Hardly much point going to the trouble of producing a product that is more expensive than what was already offered which no one will buy.  You mentioned yourself the Price of petrol.  I don't know, just a guess but as a believer in the principal of  " Follow the money" it seems a likely possibility.

[/quote] Yeah, tell me how environmentally dirty the EV revolution is from mining. At least a spill won't contaminate waterways for years on end, like the wonderful Petroleum industry does.
Quote

No, but you really want another Fukishima?  Despite the universal coverup, that makes Chernobyl  look like a turd in a bathtub.
A nuke accident will take 100+ years to clean up and, as proven, will contaminate entire oceans and other countries not just a few hundred sq miles.
And yes, I know, the new reactors are clean and ..... yep. But the fact is, they don't take the old reactors offline, what they do is extend their designed working life even further and create huge risks with them.
In comparison to nuke, Coal is a little fuzzy kitten.

I'm not for one over the other but I am sick to death of all this greenwashing where if something is supposedly green, then it has to be wonderful but at the same time people piss on fossil fuels but their soloution over all expends more energy in manufacture, consumes more resources and creates more emissions.
Like the EV thing.  No tail pipe emissions. BFD! the power station 300Km away has a smoke stack you can drive an ocean liner through or it's putting out the most deadly and long lived poisons known to man that could change life on the planet as we know it and will still be deadly poison in 500 years.

We have to put the Bullshit politics and profit searching aside if we really want to solve the energy issue.
So many things touted can be seen to be unworkable right off the bat but to keep the people happy, appeased and dumb, all these impractical ideas are brought up and rammed down peoples throats when it's clear from the start there are hurdles which make them impractical.

There is also the resources/energy/ emissions thing I mentioned.
No point saying fossil fuel cars are evil when the proposed solution in the grand scheme of things is worse.  Seems to me that people can't visualize things on a true global scale.  It's like our gubbermint here ( all sides and interests). They are pushing for emissions targets based on the recommendations of one Biased greenie professor with a highly questionable track record.
It came up that Oz produces 1.3% of total greenhouse gasses or what ever it was he was pushing.  At an inquiry they asked him, " If we eliminated ALL of Australia's emissions, what effect would that have on the world air quality? " His answer " None what so ever".
Despite that, they still want to push his drivel that will send power prices soaring, make supply less reliable than it was 50 years ago and at the end of the day, the total achievement will be some useless BS that we cut our emissions by 2% which would be an insignificant amount of an insignificant amount to start with.
It's ridiculous.

I see all these suggestions for batterys and powering the grid with wind and solar.
"We'll build these solar/ wind farms and then we'll build a battery or We'll pump the water 1000 miles up a mountain range and then let it flow back or we'll do something else that will cost billions, consume vast amounts of resources, create untold emissions in the manufacture of those resources, take immense amounts of energy, will destroy untold sections of the environment and will have a relatively short lifespan with high maintenance costs and labour and when it's all done, we'll end up with something sub standard to what we have now that had an overall bigger cost to the planet and wll never be made up for in it's life cycle. "
Or we could just keep doing what we are doing now as imperfect as it may be till something better  comes along and in reality it would have a much lower cost in all criteria.

If you want to replace a global and fundamental resource ( oil) you have to do it with something you can do on a global scale.
When you can see from the very start before anything gets going that it's not going to work because in the case of EV's there is no way to generate the power without causing more emissions and danger than what is being created now, the only sensible thing is to say, " It's not practical" and keep looking rather than burying your head in the sand to  the problems and wasting time and resources on it.

I know my " EV's are impractical and never going to happen because there is not enough power to feed them" position is not popular especially amoungst  such a green washed audience. There are some people well invested in that cause here and the fact I have mentioned this problem elsewhere and not had anyone try to shoot the position down with a practical and realistic soloution tells me an awful lot.
I spelled this out on another thread and was interested to see what the comebacks were. I was really looking forward to seeing what suggestions were made and what I could learn.  The comebacks have been Nil which tells me I'm probably more correct than I first realised.

It's not about batteries with Ev's at all. The numbers prove they are capable of the endurance of the requirements of a big chunk of the market right now.  You put say 25% of the select private fleet in an EV tomorrow and they wouldn't have a problem..... until they all went to charge the things and the lights went out all over the city.

Then you have a real big problem.

Mary B

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Re: 2015 Nissan Leaf battery modules
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2017, 06:57:10 PM »
Electric cars have not reached the technical peak needed for cold weather climates where the battery life can be cut in half. Meaning I wouldn't have the range to go to the store and back form my rural location...

Until that happens it is all a bunch of hot air from politicians without a clue to the science involved.