Author Topic: Changing meterd Phases  (Read 3176 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

george65

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 408
  • Country: au
Changing meterd Phases
« on: May 05, 2017, 04:16:35 AM »

* Thank you in advance for any and all replies but please let me pre empt some predictable responses and say I am after TECHNICAL/ factual answers rather than moral ones which won't be appropriate anyway*

I'm looking at buying a new home. I checked out the meter box and it has 3 phase power.
One phase which I think is the "Main" one has a smart meter. The other 2 have the analouge spinny meters.  The Smart meter also controls the off peak hot water.  It has a boost Button which will kick in the water heater on the standard full tilt rate.

The ducted AC is 3 phase so I'd need that to go through the smart meter but what I would like to know is if it is possible to simply move the feed for everything else being the light and power for the house and the shed along with the water heater to a phase the spinny meters are on?
I can generate and back feed my own power, but everything I have read about the smart meter model on this place says any back feed will actually register as useage on the thing which I'll get billed for. 

I'm thinking that all the single phase circuits must come off one phase which is probably the smart metered one so realistically and factually, can the connections for those not simply be taken off a phase the analogue meters are on and just leave the 1 leg of the AC on the electronic meter?

I'm not sure why the smart meter is there . There is no Time of use metering there and far as I can tell, it does not send signals of the usage and even if it did, the other meters would have to be physically read anyway. All the tariffs for all 3 phases are the same.

I'd really like to have the smart meter done away with but can't see that happening. I'd probably end up with 3 of the bastards if I said anything.
The whole BS about saving you money has now been proven wrong in a Gubbermint commissioned report and the health concerns are too strong in my book to completely ignore.


OperaHouse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1064
  • Country: us
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2017, 08:15:06 AM »
I've never heard of a setup like that.  My first thought is that they are dummy meters.  Oh they spin, but under them there are current transformers that feed into the smart meter and those meters are no longer looked at. One of the main points of a smart meter is no one has to go to the house to read it anymore.  In your part of the world nothing is conventional so I don't really know local customs.

mab

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
  • Country: wales
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2017, 03:48:24 PM »
I too wouldn't expect 3 separate meters unless each phase was supplying a different user and each received their own bill - you'd normally have a single meter.

But given what you've described, as long as all the phases are 'equal' (i.e. same size cable and supply fuse) and you are paying the bill ( or all three bills), I can't see why you couldn't move the house onto a different phase - although you might be well advised to seek local advice as to local rules.

the only other caution I could give is to move all the household single phase circuit together, as 'here' there are rules about all single phase circuits in a room being on the same phase (just an additional safety thing so your table lamp and your 'scope' won't have 415v between their lives).

george65

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 408
  • Country: au
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2017, 04:20:53 PM »

Smart meter is definitely Single phase. Probably can't read it on the pic being downsized but I can read it on the originals.
The AC is 3 phase, Can't see anything else that is but that alone would need all 3 legs. Each of the service Fuses ( from the pole) is 100A).
 I think the main reason for the smart meter is the Ripple control for the water heater. I also know for a period of time they were installing smart meters but there weren't enough to go around. I suspect they put the SM on the main phase so they could do time of use in the future.

This may be confusing to people in the US as I know your power system is very Different and just as confusing to us. :0)

Most places I looked at had 4 analogue meters. One for each phase and an off peak meter which is standard here. Old style homes like I'm in now have 2 meters, one for the single phase and one for the off peak.   

eigenmorph

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Country: ie
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2017, 07:38:50 AM »
You've probably resolved the issue by now, but a couple of thoughts crossed my mind. The photograph seems to show a fairly straightforward looking domestic installation, so are the two other phases in current use at all? As far as backfeeding is concerned, I'm sure the Utility Company has encountered people with similar queries before. Customer services will probably be no use, but there will be a technical specialist at the Utility company who will assist. It would seem that a third standard meter alongside the smart meter may be all that is required. A smart meter which can handle the backfeed may be a readily available substitute from the Utility. In the UK & Ireland, the consumer is responsible for everything beyond the meter. For local knowledge, have a word with a local electrician.

george65

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 408
  • Country: au
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2017, 03:20:45 AM »
The other circuits ( meters) are connected and in use. This is apparently to balance the loads. The feed from the street is 100A but the house is only wired for 80A per phase.  I haven't worked out which circuits are on what loads as yet but I do know the AC is across all 3.  If that Dies I'll do to a single phase unit and eliminate everything on the smart meter completely.

The utility's here will only take back feeding on a separate meter as you mentioned. This enables them to pay you .6 c Kwh for what you generate and sell to them while they charge you around .30 c kwh for what they sell to you. I am just going to backfeed with an approved inverter back into the household circuits ( inverters/ panel sets) and then build one of the devices that matches demand on the 3rd phase for the AC so I get fair return on what I generate.


eigenmorph

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Country: ie
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2017, 03:42:12 AM »
I presume you mean that the Utility pays you half of what they charge you rather than what you have written.

Why is theft not theft when it is approved by legislation? We have had our turf bogs stolen from us by the Irish Government. We paid for that land so that we could extract the turf for home heating. No compensation! All part of the "Mathew Effect" I suppose.

I should have looked more closely at your meter panel. Did you make the marks referring to P1 and P2 or was that the previous owner?

Bear in mind that the utility analyses usage statistics and is likely to inspect your installation if they suspect anything is out of order. That happened to us when we got rid of the off peak heating. Not only the total usage but the balance between phases will be examined.
 

george65

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 408
  • Country: au
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2017, 04:41:17 PM »
I presume you mean that the Utility pays you half of what they charge you rather than what you have written.

No, What I wrote was correct for where I am.  .6C FIT and .32c to buy with an .89 day supply charge.

Where my father is in the country, they pay .8c Kwh and charge .41C Kwh with .92C day supply charge.

Their " justification" is this is the whole sale cost and the rest goes to preserving the system with maintenance of lines and poles etc.
Yes, it must take a lot of maintenance on the pole and wires between my place and my Next door neighbour or to the house across the street they take the power I generate and sell it to.

Why is it not theft?
Because the Gubbermints are the legislators is why.
I think it's a complete scam and crock of ship. More lip service to saving the planet etc. If they really were committed as they say to that they would encourage everyone to have panels and pay a fair return on the power you supplied them.

They also have this other scam going which is green power. You pay more for your electricity supposedly so one of their suppliers who make power from methane from a landfill supply that to the grid and..... To promote green power.  If that's not the biggest crock I don't know what is!
Only one set of power lines and I'm sure they send an order to these company's to say we need you to generate  20 Kwh/ day because Fred Blogs has too many Dollars and not enough sense and has fallen for this.  ::)

Hey, here's an idea... why not pay people a FAIR price, like 1:1 on the power they generate AND buy! That would encourage and promote green power wouldn't it?  They had a scheme her about 7-8 years ago where they gave you an interest free loan to buy panels and gave you a .60C Kwh FIT which was about 3 times the cost price of power at the time. It was REALLY successful with loads of people taking it up and was supposed to last 5 years but was shut sown in under a year.  The gubbermints  reasoning?..... they had achieved the level of solar power they they had targeted.
Well if that was the case, why are you still pushing all this green power nonsense now?

A mate put panels on his roof with this scheme and racked up over $500 credit. He kept asking them for his $500 but they wouldn't pay saying it was held in credit. He said if I'm using less than I produce, I'll always be in credit and where is the advantage? 
The .60C rate ended january one and he applied over a year ago to have his metering changed so instead of a feed in and buy rate, he only gets charged what he uses with the solar supplementing his consumption.
He's had every excuse under the sun why they can't do that. No one available, no meters available ( which is crap because he can buy the self same approved meter privately in any qty he wants) and so it goes. anything to keep him paying more.


We are still getting hammered and brow beaten about emissions with all the coal fired stations being blown up and literally leaving whole states in the dark  yet, as usual, doing something realistic, practical and constructive is swept under the table and ignored.  If it made the gubbermint and big biz a dollar, you know they would be all over it but when it takes money out their coffers.... don't want to know. 

As I have said all along, this green save the planet thing is only good when Big biz and Gubbermints are making a buck from it. When people are saving a buck, then it's illegal.


All the board markings are as they were. I haven't touched anything. I am going to have a sparky mate put in a bigger panel so he can put RCD's on the lights and we are going to wire the shed for 40A 3 phase.


I'm not sure about the inspection. Where I am now our consumption falls below their minimum prediction for a single person in a unit. Never had it queried or inspected. Not to say they won't, but I would say that chances are on my side.  I turned off my off peak a couple of years ago and not been queried on that either.
I think checking balance between phases where I am would be difficult.  Loads are intermittent with hot water and AC for a start not to mention the Biocycle system for the waste water. In any case, my sparky mate has looked everything over and said there is no problem because the total load of the house is less than what a single phase could supply anyway and not everyone has 3 phase. The place I am in now does not have 3 phase yet has potentially higher draw due tot he way the circuits have been wired.




george65

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 408
  • Country: au
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2017, 03:38:59 AM »
Capitalism is based on dishonesty.

Jim
Sir;
On this forum people from ALL countries are welcome. With that also comes individual opinions and respect of another person's opinion.
Please refrain from the sort of inflammatory remarks lest it cause another flame war on this forum.

Nothing inflammatory or disagreeable said and certainly no offense taken. I couldn't agree more.  The world and especially business in the west is based on corruption. There are so many examples one would have to be in laughable Denial to propose otherwise.  My opinion, and you can agree with it or not, is the current green, save the world ideal would be nothing without the profit factor for governments and big Business. You show me something to do with green on any significant scale and i'll show you where someone is making money and doing diddly squat if anything for the environment.

This .6c in, 35c+ out power charges  is prime example as is paying for " green power". WTF should I pay for green power when I can generate it myself and they make a profit on it?

Jim,
My friend is very into reducing his footprint on the earth and all that kind of thing but unlike a lot of people with that persuasion, he does his homework to make sure the choices he makes are in fact beneficial and what he is using or doing is not worse than the normal way. being a smart cookie and having done his homework, he can rip shreds off this whole green idea and tell you about all the scams and misinformation out there. He says 6 out of 7 green and environmentally friendly products are in fact worse than the normal ones they supposedly replace once you dig right down to the start and the whole life cycle. He was very dissapointed with them trying to scam him as he wanted the money to put towards more new panels. After being mucked around his position was  " why bother".  They successfully converted an advocate into a detractor.

He's spent a good amount on his home making it as efficient and green as he can without going stupid and diminishing his lifestyle but says the only benefit in reality is that some of it saves him money long term.  Once he gets his 2 way meter installed, if ever, he's going to set up more panels and backfeed the way I am going to do.

Quote
Like all evangelists, they were aggressively persistent
Spot on!

Seen it a million times.  If you don't think their way you are scum, stupid and they will use all means possible, frequently Violence to prove how enlightened, friendly and doing the right thing they are. There have been a number of protests around the country here for different things. The ones on the side of Right and good are ALWAYS the ones that wear face masks and get violent trying to enforce their views while the other side just don't want whatever cockamamie idea the ones pushing whatever bent they have at the time.  I have seen a lot of such Hypocrisy right here whee there is only one way to think .  If you say something for the approved idea, that's fine, say all you like. If you say something against the very same thing, sorry, that discussion is taboo.


Quote
One approach is to use the power you generate in some value added way.The advantage is that whatever you produce from the electricity can be sold at a fair market price. That's ever so much easier said than done. What would be simple in an honest society forces people to find workarounds. Capitalism is based on dishonesty.

I have had a lot of ideas ( stolen other peoples brilliant ideas) for how to heat, cool and power my home.  I do a lot with mainly used veg oil running my vehicles on it for coming up to 15 years this october and doing a lot with burning it for heat.
The one thing I have discovered is it's hard to utilize a lot of things and keep your home and yard looking good.  I'm here a few more days before moving into the new home and realising how difficult it will be to put things into practice and keep the place looking nice.  Also difficult to apply certain things into a home practically, aesthetically and safely.

The most practical method seems to be electric. That makes solar panels the ideal energy source but I also have a number of diesel engines I can run on used veg oil and use them for generation as well. When you get into that as I have over the years, you really get to appreciate how good solar is. Virtually maintenance free, little to wear or fail at least for many years at a time, silent and now quite cheap.
If you compare that to an engine,..... Fuel, oil, belts, switching, limited life cycle....  I am going to set up an engine or 3 for power generation both for standalone and backfeeding but it will for sure be a labour of love.

That said, I'm going to try and set up a small burner with a hot water tank or heat exchanger and use that in the bathroom I am going to put in the shed.
Still deciding whether to make it ultra modern and drop dead beautiful or go with something like a steam punk style with Corrugated tin walls, exposed copper pipe with industrial valves for taps etc.

eigenmorph

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Country: ie
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2017, 04:34:02 AM »

Thankyou for your many comments. They were extremely interesting. I'm glad I didn't offend or inflame you.

Judge Justice Holmes famously stated: "Freedom of Speech is Freedom for the Speech we Loath."

I believe that was in the American Supreme Court. I'm not such Which Constitutional Amendment  refers to Freedom of Speech.

One comment of yours in particular stands out in relation to Alternative Energy Sources:

"Also difficult to apply certain things into a home practically, aesthetically and safely."

Anyone browsing the sites of some Sustainable Energy related organisations could be forgiven for concluding that Sustainable Energy is about making a commitment to live in a scrapyard. One wonders whether their actual intent is to dissuade people from exploring alternative energy solutions.




Bruce S

  • Global Moderator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 4574
  • Country: us
  • USA
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2017, 10:27:37 AM »
george65;
You know as a Mod , I had to put that there right  :) ?

Way too many people have gotten on the Politically Correct bandwagon, or thin skinned not sure which.

I try to write as I would talk to a person standing in front of me.

BTW: I vote for the steampunk style !!
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

eigenmorph

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Country: ie
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2017, 06:53:01 AM »
I suspected that might be the case Bruce. You have your legal obligations to observe, and there are no doubt some capitalists with a flash point close to absolute zero.

To get back to the metering problem...

Is it not the case that having purchased electricity it belongs to the purchaser to use as they please? Presumably it can be sold on again. It would seem that any contract which prevented onward sale would violate the Anti Trust Laws. In principle it would be possible for a group of neighbours to have a single grid connection and therefore a single standing charge. The actual usage and backfeed amongst individuals would be monitored by their own meters. Obviously this line of approach depends upon proximity of users and their readiness to cooperate. It could be piloted without any of the individuals actually disconnecting from the grid, in order to identify implementation problems. It doesn't eliminate the standing charge, but could ameliorate it.

In respect of standing charges, I wonder how many Rail companies, Coach operators, and 7-11s receive standing charges from all the people in their local communities for maintaining their services? I hold the view that standing charges ought to be optional against paying a higher rate for actual usage. No doubt it would take a very potent Class Action to achieve such an end. Furthermore they would require a person of Mr Bugliosi's abilities driving it.

Incidentally George, you refer to using Oil. May I ask whether this is recycled?
     

george65

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 408
  • Country: au
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2017, 10:08:52 AM »
george65;
You know as a Mod , I had to put that there right  :) ?

Way too many people have gotten on the Politically Correct bandwagon, or thin skinned not sure which.

I don't pander to fools or whingers but then i'm under no obligation to.  If someone wants to get in a hissy fit over nothing, tough. My life has been too hard, too full of grief and too short to beat around the bush or worry about those born with a silver spoon in their mouth or a carrot up their    .

Quote
try to write as I would talk to a person standing in front of me.
Exactly only I have to censor myself a lot because I am a lot more direct to peoples faces than what I am allowed on most forums.

Quote
BTW: I vote for the steampunk style !!

The rest of the committee ( wife and daughter) did too. .... Somewhat to my surprise.
The comment was why have 2 bathrooms the same when we can have elegant inside and funky out?
I might be able to save some big money on bathroom fittings although it seems extremely Difficult to get a suitable metal trough for a bath here.
Looking at commercial hot water heaters, I'm thinking of finding a stainless steel tank and having a flue for oil heating welded into it as well as the thread for an electric along with the relief valve etc. Could do it hybrid with a solar water panel as well.

george65

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 408
  • Country: au
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2017, 10:54:42 AM »
In principle it would be possible for a group of neighbours to have a single grid connection and therefore a single standing charge. It could be piloted without any of the individuals actually disconnecting from the grid, in order to identify implementation problems.

I read a while back, maybe a year ago, about a plan for a commounity on the other side of the country to set up an independent/ self powered settlement.
it was aimed at retirees and they appeared, for once, to have done their home work very well. Every house and building would have panels and every street corner would have a Shipping container that was beautified which would house batteries. They would all be interconnected.  They did a lot of research on the average sun days, expected power consumption etc and had 3 days worth of reserve capacity. They knew there was about twice a year that wouldn't be enough so had planned for generators to be installed which would be capeable of re charging the batteries over night. They were on an environmental bent but not stupid about it like they could never use fossil fuel, they were happy to go 98% without it and be practical and realistic.

The last I read the project was shitcanned because the power authority took the developers to court and INSISTED they had to be connected to the grid. Developers thought OK, we can be connected but does not mean we have to switch it on and maybe it will be better than the generators when we do need it.

Only problem was, the power company WITH the backing of the state government wanted some fantastic price to connect them because of the remote location.  They selected the location for it's sunshine, mild weather, position near the sea etc and it was simply not practical to move it all elsewhere because they were being forced to do the very thing they were wanting to avoid in the first place.  I heard they were going to appeal the case but their own council had told them it was a very slim chance.  Far as I know, a good, sound, environmentally beneficial project was killed off because of this greed by the power company and the state gubbermint. "But yeah, they are all for the environment. Just ask any polly whos making a buck out of it.


Quote

Incidentally George, you refer to using Oil. May I ask whether this is recycled?   

I spose it is when I'm done with it!  ;D

I use veg oil. Pick it up from restaurants, cafe's, clubs etc. I usually settle it ( or prefilter if I'm in a rush) Dry and final filter finer than pump diesel and into the vehicle it goes. Or my listeroid or other diesel engines.  I'm also big into burners that run on oil  ( Youtube " oil burner" )  for all sorts of heating applications. I don't worry about drying and fine filtering that oil, run it through any bit of fabric is more than enough and often use the less desirable oil... over used, burnt, rank, etc.  Burners don't care.

I do on occasion use engine oil and the greenwashed get in a real hissy fit about that.  Like I care. I get given a lot by people and as it is a free energy resource to me, I use it in the burners for metal casting, pretend blacksmithing or anything else I want to make hot.
I prefer the Veg oil though for a bunch of reasons, it doesn't stink, stain your hands, cleans up easy, is easily available here and what I know best.

When I got into it I was constantly lambasted because I admitted I was in it for the money saving not the environmental BS. So many of the greenwashed were too damn stupid to see the reason I was in it was irrelevant, the outcome was still aligned to their cause.  The ONLY people I know are still in it and haven't dropped off years ago are the few guys like me that id it to save money and for the feeling of independence.  The rest of the loudmouth arsewipes that called me names because I wasn't greenwashed like them have LONG gone and I know one of the biggest whingers and low life snakes and hypocrites that run a local forum has been driving petrol cars for years now.

That guy and a couple of others I swear I would smack in the face if I saw them in the street for the crap they gave me and their hypocrisy.
Suffice to say my REPEATED experience with the greenwashed has not been good and left me with a real disdain for these types. many have made the mistake of having a go at me for burning oil and killing the planet as they make out before they knew what they were talking about and I was infact burning a sanctioned and ordained biofuel.

I love oil. It has benifited and enhanced my family life. It was only a few years ago the penny dropped with my son as to how much money we had saved and what we had been able to do because we could drive for free.  Here the kids have to do 120 hours with an instructor ( parent/ licensed person) to get their provisional license.  My kids got theirs in the minimum allowed time of a few months. Most of their friends too a year rather than the mandatory 3 months.
My son said to me he was talking to a friend and he said he could only drive when the family needed to go somewhere or the occasional hour of driving practice. My kids went driving whenever they liked. the cost of fuel was never an issue but when my son worked out what that 120 hours would cost, then he saw the reason behind my " Messing around with that $#|+".

I never had so much oil as when teaching them to drive. The logical thing to do with that time was... go pickup oil.  Every night would be  about 15L used and 200L brought home. They got so much practice reversing into tight spots, around things and other precision driving most kids don't get.  My sons party trick pretty soon was to rub the side of the dumpsters with the tyre which overhung the wheel arch by 2" when reversing up to the oil drums.
There was one place where this was practical but others he'd criss cross the carpark to demonstrate how he could do it every time.

I used to pick him up at night from his part time job and we'd go out of an hour or however much he felt up to. The requirement was for a min of 20 hours night driving. He had 84 hours when he did his test which he passed with only one point penality which the examiner said " I could give him full score because that would mean he was perfect and no one is a perfect Driver"

I have gone about as far as I can with my oily proclivities especially with the burners. I need now to learn more about arduino and the like to be able to control and apply the heat and energy I can create with them.  It's real easy to create a monster that spews out 600 or 1000Kw of heat energy, it's a whole different thing to regulate and apply that power to practical use. I can already easily surpass the all important Turndown ration of commercial burners be they gas or oil but when I can apply things like thermostatic control and safety features, I'll be able to do a lot more with it.

I'm not under any delusion, this is not anything like they used to make out, a mainstream energy source. It's just something a few nutters like myself can take advantage of and get benefit out of.


eigenmorph

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Country: ie
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2017, 04:01:46 AM »
Helloo George,

Thanks for a superb lesson in used oil.

I wish my sons were as sensible as yours. They were at one time, but then they started following some "Big men". Wealthy individuals to whom visible waste is part of showing how powerful they are. They probably expected the money to rub off on them. I thought at first it was an adolescent thing that would pass. 10 years on, I've revised my opinion. One of them has just bought himself a Crewcab tipper - straight out of the box. I'd like to know what was wrong with the one he had. I presume his accountant told him that it was the clever thing to do taxwise.

I'd say I'm not far from being a nutter like you.
 

george65

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 408
  • Country: au
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2017, 07:01:47 PM »

We did it pretty tough when the kids were growing up. They missed out on a lot but now We are better than average well off, they are still conservative and value things as do my wife and I. I drive a 24 yo truck and although I could afford anything within reason I wanted, I'm happy with that. I like it, it suits me and I'll stick with it till it becomes non viable.

My father is quite well off now having worked his guts out all his life and still working coming up to 80 years old.
He does like the new and upmarket things but good on him. I drive his new Mercedes sports car and it's nice but not something I'd be comfortable living with every day. I certainly don't abuse my old 4Wd but I'm alos not freaking out when I park it that a scratch could take thousands off the vale or cost thousands to fix. 

I have a good friend that is all about image.  He had a truck and made every excuse why spending $15K on the thing to get it back to virtualy as new condition with teh running gear and a few creature comforts was a bad investment. He went out and spend $200K on a new truck and I don't know if he ever was able to get enough work in to make the first 6 months repayments.  He lost it and made every excuse but the truth was it was an unjustifiable stupidity and indulgence in the first place.
He has just broken up with his long term partner and they will both come away with over $200K from the sale of the house which has risen dramatically in value since they bought it.  He's already talking another truck and more indulgent rubbish. I said to another friend I give him 3- 6 months and hell have no money but a nice car and truck and an even bigger ego. He's a fantastic guy, always there the minute you ask but the money he spends on silly toys and trying to show off is very sad.

Maybe your sons just have to learn for themselves.  I always say, there are some things you can teach people and some things they have to learn themselves and I base that on my own behavior not as an insult to others. I know I have had a few self inflicted falls and come downs and the main thng is to learn from them and not do them again.

Unfortunately you then have people like my friend whom just seem to learn how to make bigger mistakes but I'm sure your boys will be a lot smarter even if their learning curve is not as quick as we'd like!  :0)

george65

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 408
  • Country: au
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2017, 04:54:28 PM »

Finally got around to re wiring the meter box yesterday and re assigning the circuits.

Everything I was reading was talking about balancing the 3 phases but a look behind the board showed the circuits were heavily biased on the smart meter and previous bills proved that.
I took everything off the smart meter I could and put it on the other 2 phases with the spinny meters I can run backwards.  The only things on the smart meter now are 1 phase of the 3 phase AC and the Hot water as the off peak is built in. The other 2 phases are still better balanced than the difference between the most loaded and least loaded as things were.

I found it pretty ironic that this place has a lot less potential draw through the grid than my last house and is on 3 phase where my last house did it all on single.  Definitely no chance of overloading any phase here.

I have been rewinding one meter I could hook the panels up to about 100Kw month but the weather has been very sunny and dry.  I also could not push full power in the one phase with my test setup due to the voltage going high through the leads I was using.  I learned that a lead that causes voltage drop when you are pulling through it can also work in reverse and cause voltage " compression " when you are trying to push.  Running 2 inverters didn't help even in to insert points as they were on the same phase both trying to push the voltage up.
Now I can put the 2 arrays on separate phases so I can offset our usage or run backwards as I was yesterday after the re wire. Once I get setup properly I can run over size wire direct into the existing circuits.

This new house has much more basic wiring than he old one.  The old house had over 20 circuits. Everything was split and I could isolate various parts of the house.  Here it's much more basic with just 2 power circuits. 
One strange thing that may work out OK is the shed has split circuits for light and power. Normally you have that in a house but a garage usually shares on the one circuit.
I'm hoping they have wired the light circuit the same as the power with 2.5 instead of 1.5mm cable.  If they have, I can run the panels which I intend to mainly put on the shed roof over the 2 phases I want to backfeed. I'll probably put 5 kw up there to start but I could do 10 and push up to 15 with a bit of work framing. I'll see ho much power we use and need to offset.

If we are doing well, I will look at putting a changeover switch on the hot water.  Have it so I can run it offpeak or from the solar backfeed phases if we are in surplus.

eigenmorph

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Country: ie
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2017, 08:02:52 AM »
Hello George,

Thanks for the comments of August 24th. I've been inactive for a few weeks. Sorry if I appeared rude. Hindsight is a great thing. I can congratulate myself on having raised 3 utterly spoiled brats. I don't mind being despised by my son's. - That's part of being a father and I adapted to it long ago. It's their treatment of their mum that gets my blood pressure up. Never mind, as they say in Ireland "There'll be time enough to teach them manners]"

It's good to hear that you have completed your load balancing. I presume the inverters come complete with the necessary phaselocking circuitry. Line drop is always a hassle. The normal approach with DC power supplies was to have "Sense" lines alongside the power lines. The sense lines carry virtually no current and consequently have essentially zero volts drop along them. Their purpose is to allow the control circuits in the power supply to adjust the voltage output in order to offset the volts drop in the lines which carry the current. If your inverters have that facility it may save you the cost of heavier wiring.

I was thinking some more about that sustainable community which ran into hassle because of the cost of connecting to the Utility Company. What prevented them from setting themselves up as a Utility Company for supplying their own needs?

All the best.
Jim       


george65

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 408
  • Country: au
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2017, 02:32:12 PM »

 I don't mind being despised by my son's. - That's part of being a father and I adapted to it long ago. It's their treatment of their mum that gets my blood pressure up.

Mate I hear you and I DO know your pain. More than you can imagine.  My daughter is almost 21 and seems to be going through some phase ( I HOPE) where her sense of self entitlement  and laziness makes us wonder where the hell we went wrong as parents.  Perhaps it was not spanking them enough. Probably can get locked up for saying that is this ridiculous PC  overdosed world these days.

I don't think she really likes or respects me much. I'm far too old school.  I recently became aware a boyfriend had tried to give her drugs. I confronted the little POS and stared him in the eye as I told him, If he every tried to do that again or did anything wrong buy her, he would Disappear off the face of the earth without a trace.  I meant it, he knew it but when my daughter found out I was the worst in the world.
Even my wife was mad at me.

What am I supposed to do, wait until something happens and then pat the little mongeral on the head and say don't worry, it is your fault but no one blames you and give him a hug? Pigs arse. Stakes are way too high for me to be taking any risks.  As I told my Daughter, hate me all you want just be around to hate me and not lying on a slab somewhere.

She treats my wife like crap a lot of the time too.  My wife bends over backwards for her but I guess we are just the uncool meal tickets.
She got put in her place the other day. I came racing down to answer the phone only to find her standing right beside it making a cup of tea in the kitchen.  When I asked why she didn't answer it I was told it wouldn't be for her. I went nuts.
Later in teh day she complained the battery in her car was gone and she needed a new one.  I said OK.  when she went to go out later, she asked about the car and had I fixed it. I said not my car, why would I fix the effing thing, up to you.  She said she had no money I said well you have money for concert tickets and going out, better get your priorities right.

I knew what was going to happen, been around a little longer so I disabled my and her mothers car.  All it takes is a Fuse removed.  She got really upset then and I didn't cave.  she missed whatever it was she was going to and sulked for days. I did get a battery and put it in for her so she could go to work lesson hopefully being learned.  Her brother tried the same stunts as well and he also learned who was more reliant on who when he decided he didn't want to talk to me anymore.

I don't know what it is these days. I do know there is only so much you can instill in them and even while they are still at school they are under the influence of every other little upstart around them undermining all you did. I moved out of home when I was 12.  I lived with my grandmother and had to learn and do everything for myself.  Wouldn't kid myself I was perfect but by god I would have been thrown out the house on my skinny arse had I tried on 1/10th of what kids put you through these days.  Now kids want everything handed to them on a platter and frankly it ships me to tears.  The more you give them, the more they expect and the ruder and more inconsiderate they get.

Maybe the revenge will be when they have kids of their own but it's so sad it has to be such a fight and heartbreak for us parents.


Quote
It's good to hear that you have completed your load balancing. I presume the inverters come complete with the necessary phaselocking circuitry.

The inverters are OEM as fitted to new installs. I got very lucky with my brother in law whom ran a waste transfer station. There were a load of brand new old stock dumped there and I was in the right place at the right time for once to grab them.  Probably a lot of my setup won't be compliant, the regs change about every 3 months and there are parts people can't even agree on as to what is right and wrong but that will all be on the DC side.  The panels I have got arent even compliant now because of some technicality with grounding or something. Another bright idea by the gubbermint or industry to force people to buy new instead of making the most of what has many years of service life left in it. Call it a safety issue and no one can argue.

On the AC side where I connect to the grid, all will be well above board so if they ever do come nosing around, their position will be limited.

Yesterday I did my highest ever generation for the day, 23 Kwh.  Still haven't got the panels on the roof and they are still shaded in the early and latter parts of the day so when they are in position with the proper wiring, I might get an extra kilo or 2 out of them.
I re set the tilt on them yesterday and today was very cloudy but I only seemed to loose about 20% on what I made yesterday which I find pretty strange.  Too good to be true really.  Probably forces at work I don't understand. I suspect even with the splitting of the supplied phases the things are still seeing high line voltage due to the extension leas they are back feeding through and tripping out. With the lower outputs they may be staying online continuously and catching up more. 

When wired properly to the mains with heavy cable, this won't be an issue.
Next thing is to get the panels on the roof and see how much space I have have and what the generation is. I want to take out a lot of the bill while still being able to run the ac for heat and cooling as much as we want/ need.  I can over panel the inverters to make sure I get full output most of the time which should give a min of 30 Kwh day.

We are finally looking like getting rain we have not had in 4 months so production may be well down for the next week.  I'll happily trade that for the much needed rain.  Be interesting to see what I can make anyhow.


Quote
I was thinking some more about that sustainable community which ran into hassle because of the cost of connecting to the Utility Company. What prevented them from setting themselves up as a Utility Company for supplying their own needs?

I was only talking to my nephew on Sunday about that. He has been working on a solar project in cambodia to bring electric solar powered light to the villages there.
 I don't why they couldn't do a work around with the self powered estate but I'd guarantee big biz put pressure on the state gubbermint to make sure the project didn't happen.

I followed it closely because I fully expected it to be another greenwashed load of garbage like so many, virtually all are these days. Lots of razzamatazz at the front with a pile of crap out the back.  I couldn't fault this idea. Every angle I tried to find fault was covered and it seemed to be a really genuine and well thought out plan.... Which was probably it's undoing.
My Nephew said he saw things like that when he was in the states. OK to make a big thing about it to get the investor $$ but don't actually do anything that take the bux from some corporations pocket.

As I say, the green save the environment thing is all well and good while there is a buck to be made by big biz but the moment they might loose one, it's outlawed..... Just like my own DIY backfeeding setup would be.

eigenmorph

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Country: ie
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2017, 10:23:01 AM »
Hello George,

That account of your daughter is appreciated. It isn't nice to hear and I hope she straightens out for you both. Just reading it made me feel a lot less isolated than I've been feeling lately.

The tilt angle is a cosine relationship. A few years ago I was registered as a surveyor with Sustainable Energy Ireland. My job was advising people on the suitability of the sites. They government  were handing out grants like the world was about to end. I went to one place where the guy wanted to cover his roof with solar panels. The roof faced the wrong way and the slope was much less than ideal. Even with the grant, he might only have recovered his costs if the system worked faultlessly for 50 years. There was no dissuading this guy. He was entitled to a grant and he was going to have the biggest one he could get. I might as well not have bothered. The story was typical. I gave up that activity in disgust. If it was possible to get the information it could well turn out that the solar panel manufacturers were backhanding the Energy Minister. Grants only inflate prices.

Reference your diesel generator. You might find that buying a second hand unit from the likes of a plant hire firm through Ebay or whatever works out cheaper than buying a new alternator import and linking it to your engine. You can still proceed with your own system and sell the other on in due course. Meantime it will be ready to go and you can be saving on your utility bill from the earliest date.

About your diesel: Is the throttle controlled mechanically or electronically?

If your alternator is a traditional design and not overly saturated with electronic protection, then once it is synchronised to the utility supply, the grid provides a certain amount of speed regulation. Either the engine pushes the grid or the other way round. That provides a bit of a buffer against variations in your own load demands.

I cannot disagree with your comments on Greenwash. A year ago I was working in one of the UK's foremost government research labs. They have big screen tvs all over the place telling the employees just how world class they all are. Meanwhile the scientists seem to spent their days sitting around drinking coffee. The only people doing anything worthwhile seem to be the techies and support staff. The group I was with had spent about 1.5M building a kind of particle accelerator. The only problem was that they were just fooling around. The design was seriously flawed, and had been from an early stage. However, nobody is ever held accountable on these projects. It's all about National Prestige. It's 5 star Social Welfare for the Privileged few. I could have kept my mouth shut and my head down. That just isn't me. I pointed out the problems and found myself back on the farm lickety-split! Still I know that feeding the cattle is more honest than what those guys are up to.       

george65

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 408
  • Country: au
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2017, 06:02:37 PM »
Hello George,

That account of your daughter is appreciated. It isn't nice to hear and I hope she straightens out for you both. Just reading it made me feel a lot less isolated than I've been feeling lately.

It's not good to admit these things but I have always been honest with myself where my kids were concerned.  I was the one that took the kids to school and looked after their activities when they were at school because I had the flexible work where the Mrs was 9-5.  I was well known in the school for a number of reasons. One of them was being straight up with the teachers. Even then they must have had some policy to seek permission from the parents to Discipline the kids with certain things like keeping them in at lunchtime or whatever.  They would ask me if it was OK and i'd be saying " What the hell you asking me for? It's your class, you have 30 of the little vultures to contend with. You keep them under control however you think necessary. "
I told a couple of them, I know my kids, they are smart, give them an inch and they will take 10 miles and then tie you up for good measure. You stand on them and don't let them get away with a thing or you will regret it.

I got told more than once that in XX years of teaching a parent had never said that to them. I said yes, most parents have rose coloured glasses and think their kids are perfect. I have never touched drugs in my life so I don't have that fantasy.

The one thing that ships me to tears is when you tell other parents about your concerns they say " Don't worry, they all do that" . So freaking what?
I'm supposed to pass off bad behavior " because they all do it?"  Pigs arse! They rob a bank and that's OK because little johhny down the road knocked one over too? Yeah right. They might all be the same because they have their heads filled with all sorts of crap now but that does not make it right.
My daughter calls me a " cave man" for lots of my ways and thoughts but when I put her to the challenge of what specifically is wrong with my position, the best I get is " People don't think/ do that anymore."

Correct. They don't have manners, consideration for others, honor their word, treat others with decency and respect or a whole load of things that in my not so long life, were all basic standards of decency.  While ever she is under my roof, she will have those drummed into her the best I can and she will have her arse kicked when she disrespects her mother that would do anything for her and does too much especially in light of what she gets.

As I say, I never thought having kids was going to be easy but surely to hell it should not be this hard and painful either.



Quote
I went to one place where the guy wanted to cover his roof with solar panels. The roof faced the wrong way and the slope was much less than ideal. Even with the grant, he might only have recovered his costs if the system worked faultlessly for 50 years. There was no dissuading this guy.

I see this all the time too. Just yesterday in fact. I was trolling round the factories going through some scrap metal bins picking up bits and pieces for my DIY supply. I went past this one place and noticed all the panels on the roof. I also noticed a row of trees directly in front shading about 90% of the panels.  I was thinking about it and came back the same way and stopped. Pulled out my phone with the sun tracking app ( not that I'm a geek or anything!) and confirmed my thoughts on the direction of the sun. Those panels would have made about 10% of their rating on a good day. Clearly the panels went in when the large trees that had been there at least 30 years were well established and the problem should have been obvious to anyone that cared.

At the field my kids play soccer there are houses on 3 sides. Every side has a house with panels on the roof facing the field...... Including one facing due south when our orientation here is true North.  None are pointing north and both the east/ west ones are shaded or obstructed.  I always look at that and think WTF?  Of course I can see by looking the angles are way off as well just to compound the problem.
Moron neighbour at the last place did the same.  5 KW of panels facing south west with the neighbors trees shading them from about midday on.
I reckon this guy would have got 3 Kwh on an average good day. Again, panels over 20o off tilt.... yeah, money well spent there all right!

There are a lot of companies telemarketing solar installations as well as scammers going door to door.  They probably don't give a damn where the panels go as long as the people pay and they get their Gubbermint kickbacks. As long as there is enough roof space, I'm sure they don't care about direction, angle, shading or anything else.
Makes you want to bang your head against the wall.

Quote
Reference your diesel generator. You might find that buying a second hand unit from the likes of a plant hire firm through Ebay or whatever works out cheaper than buying a new alternator import and linking it to your engine.

Ahead of you there my friend!
Always looking on fleabay and dumbtree for that very reason. If I can find something that fits the bill premade and local, I'm in! Ideally something cheap because of a blown engine would be great. Happy to do a bit of spanner work as any option will involve that anyhow.
I bought an ex garden tiller a month or so back that was ex hire. been owned privately before me and the guy did a great job with it. Has an issue atm with shearing the flywheel key which I have found on the net is a common problem with the engines installed.  Found the fix so will get onto that when the puller arrives which should be tomorrow.  Other than that, best thing I have bought in a while.


Quote
About your diesel: Is the throttle controlled mechanically or electronically?

All my engines are Mechanically operated.

Quote
If your alternator is a traditional design and not overly saturated with electronic protection, then once it is synchronised to the utility supply, the grid provides a certain amount of speed regulation. Either the engine pushes the grid or the other way round. That provides a bit of a buffer against variations in your own load demands.

I have played a lot with an induction motor set up as a generator.  Works the same way. Get the engine running near the motor speed, connect to the mains then ramp the engine speed up over sync and it becomes a generator that is frequency locked.
Can you do that with a generator that has an AVR?

I will probably set the IMAG up for back feeding ( although I'm leaning heavily to panels atm) but I would like a generator that will run stand alone if need be.


Quote
I cannot disagree with your comments on Greenwash.   

I'm all for do the right thing, who the hell wouldn't be? Unless you are a corporation that puts money above all else, who would want to see pollution and destruction of the environment.
What ships me to tears though is the way the cause is bastardized and abused as a way of making a buck. I'm sick to death of being brow beaten at every turn about saving water and Co2 emissions when every other turn I see waste and stupidity that is needless and often being perpetrated by those enterprises and organizations that scream the loudest and put the guilt trip on the little guy.
I don't give a damn about green causes and save the planet crap yet I'll bet I do more towards that than 90% of the blowhards that do. I don't do it to save the planet, I do it to save money yet in the eyes of the greenwashed, I'm all sorts of mongerals for that attitude.

As for the corporate gubbermint thing, don't even get me started.  You can pretty much bet those that put up the big shopfront facade about save the planet and wave the green flag are all gung ho on the front end and have a pile of manure out the back that goes against there preaching and guilt tripping.
All the time I see these green initiatives that in sum total use far more resources, energy and create greater emissions than doing things the non trendy flavour of the month way would cause and do not have a hope in hell of recovering any of the expenditure put towards them.

Pretty sure what they do create is well paid jobs for a lot of otherwise useless individuals and create revenue for gubbermint or big biz.


Had a new High with the solar setup the other day, 26 Kwh. Might have squeezed in one more if the clouds didn't come over an hour or so before sunset.
still, happy with that and looking forward to getting the panels up on the roof where they will get maybe an hour more sun thanks to no shading and I can run heavy wire back to the mains. The extension leads are still causing a little clipping but for a test setup and arsing around, it's saving me a lot of money on the power bill.

I'd like to put them on a tilting setup and trying to work something simple for a DIY setup to do that. If it proves too hard I'll go with a fixed angle but seeing the shed roof is only 5o and I need 34o, I'd like to make the frame work tilting if I can without too much extra trouble.

eigenmorph

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Country: ie
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2017, 08:47:04 AM »
Hello George,

Great read. I suppose people are perverse the world over. The Capitalist ethic is virtually universal. Socialism was defined by "From each according to ability; to each according need". Of course it got something of a bad press on account of Mr Stalin. Capitalism may be defined by "As much as you can get for as little as you can give."  It's easy to see why Capitalism is so appealing - provided you don't find yourself on the wrong end of it! Nobody ever expects to end up at the wrong end, but Nature has a way of striking back in the long run.

One piece of advice which has served me admirably is: 1 saved is worth 1.50 earned. It's actually better than that because there is a satisfaction factor plus the time in hand through not having to earn the 1.50. It looks like you and me maybe went to the same school.

I asked about the engine because working a throttle back and forth might be easier to implement than interfacing to an ECU. You might be able to pick up a throttle control from the likes of a Hitachi excavator. They have a stepper motor and worm gearbox. It still requires some electronics, but it moves you in the right direction. The question becomes one of control strategy. I need to give this some thought.

george65

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 408
  • Country: au
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2017, 11:28:00 PM »

One piece of advice which has served me admirably is: 1 saved is worth 1.50 earned. It's actually better than that because there is a satisfaction factor plus the time in hand through not having to earn the 1.50. It looks like you and me maybe went to the same school.

The thing a lot of people have said to me about my veg oil fuel interest is " What about your time, isn't that worth money? "

Well actually its not. I never take time off work that I would be paid for to do it and no one pays me form my time off or having fun. To play devils advocate though, I pretend  my time is a cost.  Won't bore you with all the details but it pretty much goes that I could easily produce over 200L of fuel from collecting to processing in an hour. At the time I got a lot of this comment, Diesel was around $1.50 a litre.  About $5.70 a US gallon which is enough to give any American a heart attack.  At the cost of buying diesel, that worked out to $300 for an hours work.  To earn that $300, I would have to earn that at an average wage of say $25 an hour LESS tax, no less than 35%. Add that to what I'd have to earn and my time is a lot more valuable doing the oil by a long shot than what most people earn in an hour.

The other thing is, the processing I do when I'm doing other things. I don't have to stand there watching, I set it going and can then go mow the lawn, watch TV or go out.
I think the advise you got is spot on and for once, I worked it out all by myself!


Quote
I asked about the engine because working a throttle back and forth might be easier to implement than interfacing to an ECU. You might be able to pick up a throttle control from the likes of a Hitachi excavator. They have a stepper motor and worm gearbox. It still requires some electronics, but it moves you in the right direction. The question becomes one of control strategy. I need to give this some thought.


Spot on again.
I play with building waste oil burners. I can build them to do 1000Kw output with my eyes shut. One that does 2Kw all day long or ramps up to 10 then back down to 2 is the trick and it's all in the control. Same with my solar interest. So many things I'd like to be able to do with that but just don't have the knowledge and heaving difficulty getting the learning in my thick head.  Luckily I am managing to string a bunch of premade control boards together to get there. May not be elegant or cheap but I am managing to accomplish some things.  :0)

I'm really happy with the outputs I'm getting from my panels and changing the phases worked out perfect.  I might have to swap the feed  from the panels to the phases as one is rocketing ahead now ( backwards) and the other is fairly stable. What I make up during the day I use at night which is fine.
Just like to balance them up a bit and get each one closer to the start point.
The electronic metered phase will still cost this bill but after that will be much lower as will the other 2.  Think I'll go get another 2-3 KW of panels for when the summer and AC use kick in.

Bruce S

  • Global Moderator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 4574
  • Country: us
  • USA
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2017, 07:45:35 AM »
george65;

Since those waste oil heaters are so easy for you to build, are you going to put one up for your greenhouses?

I'm like you, I can get this stuff all day long for nearly free(nearly=me stopping on the way home after work and picking up the carbouys).
each coming in at ~15L which, since I cold settle mine before anything else makes it tons easier.

When I was asked about adding my time as a cost to the fuel, I merely explained that I would then have to factor in the knowledge I am also gaining , then I would have to subtract the fun I'm having and then subtract the saving for not needing to pay $0.77/L and it all works out.
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

george65

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 408
  • Country: au
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2017, 09:37:58 AM »
george65;

Since those waste oil heaters are so easy for you to build, are you going to put one up for your greenhouses?

TBH Bruce, greenhouse has slid a long way down the list. So many other more pressing things to do for the foreseeable future.
If the question is could I do one for a green house, answer is definitely yes. The control mechanism ATm is a small dosing pump as sourced from fleabay for dosing fishtanks as seems the be the popular use.  With a PWM controller I can vary the output manually. With a thermostat I can stage the output and with an arduino I could make it many different levels. The air is not nearly as critical as the fuel flow and I could get a lot of turn down ratio at the same airflow the way I design the burners. 

Because I work on an excess air design the output is completely clean as far as particles or soot goes so I could exhaust the burner into the greenhouse at least partially if not fully to boost the co2 levels.

The 2 things I am more interested for next winter is a shed heater and a patio heater.  I will look for old wood burners to convert over the summer but as these tend to be a bit hard and exy to get, the fallback will most likely be some old LPG cylinders. Fuel control for these can be as simple as a pump with a bleed bypass to control fuel rate as it is in the liters per hour range rather than sub 1L.

The next most likely thing I'll build will be an oil powered forge. The mrs has taken a fancy to decorative iron work and loved some of the the ultra basic stuff I have done already just mucking round.  Some of the  things she wants like light fittings, hooks and pot stands are very elementary that I can knock up with no skill at all and a lot of free heat.

Quote
since I cold settle mine before anything else makes it tons easier.

My quote on oil processing is it is the perfect lazy mans sport. The less you do to it, the less you have to.  I used to have enough capacity in storage, about 4000L +, to be able to settle the oil up to 12 months before use. After that long the clear oil on top was very clean and required minimal filtration and drying of the dissolved water and it was good to go. I could put at least 2000L of oil through a standard 10" 5Um water filter. Most of the time I got nervous the thing had collapsed or tracked and changed it out of worry rather than requirement. I had an IBC of clean, ready to go oil ready before the start of each winter so I didn't have to process in the cold and at least 2x 200L barrels as well. Come spring I'd start collecting again and replenish the oil I processed to replace what I had used and move the whole process along.

Quote
When I was asked about adding my time as a cost to the fuel, I merely explained that I would then have to factor in the knowledge I am also gaining , then I would have to subtract the fun I'm having and then subtract the saving for not needing to pay $0.77/L and it all works out.

Here the kids had to do 120 Hours driving under supervision to get their provisional licenses.  Most of those trips with my kids were put to purpose oil collecting. I had over 6000L at home at one stage and even friends were saying they had plenty. I was selling a bit as well to people who couldn't get enough themselves, mainly Biodieselers. While my kids friends took a year or more to get their hours up because the parents could not afford fuel to to rive around on for the sake of it, my kids took it for granted and had their hours done in the minimum 3 months.

For me it's been a very profitable hobby and certainly allowed us as a family to do a lot we could not have done if we were paying for fuel like interstate holidays and just running around sight seeing on weekends.

eigenmorph

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Country: ie
Re: Changing meterd Phases
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2017, 09:36:37 AM »
Hello George,

Here are a couple of early thoughts which may be of interest.

The picture is of a car window winder out of an old Volvo. The motor has a worm drive. There is plenty of torque for operating your engine throttle and it only needs power when adjusting for load variation.

Presumably your engine would have had a tacho output which would serve as the basis for control of rpm. However the alternator will be a ready made tacho. It is easy to derive the reference signal from that. It has the advantage that actual frequency will have to vary to match Grid fluctuations if you are connected.

A fixed mechanical Governor is fine for stand alone. You referred to "Listeroids". I was having a look at the manual for a Petter, which is virtually identical to the Lister. The governor is mounted on the camshaft behind the starting handle on the one I was looking at. There must be plenty of old concrete mixers in your local scrapyard. It wouldn't matter that the governor was out of a single cylinder engine. The centrifugal force will provide ample muscle for your throttle control.

All the best
Jim