Author Topic: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator  (Read 4168 times)

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Fused

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Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« on: May 18, 2017, 10:56:47 AM »
Hey all, it has been a few years gone by.

I have 480 watts of solar panels feeding a tristar 45 non mppt.

I'm branching off and have a small tower I am going to put
a wind generator on. I have 2awg aluminum wire buired
the 125 feet to my house and battery bank. (8-6v batteries @24v)

Here is my question,
How hard will it be to run my tristar in dump mode for
the wind generator and a second 30a controller just for the solar
panels?
I want to avoid dumping my solar to a 1000w resister.

Any help is appreciated
Thanks
Doug
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 12:58:30 PM by Fused »
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

joestue

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2017, 12:51:05 AM »
to some extent it doesn't matter where the power comes from if you have to get rid of it.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2017, 10:24:59 AM »
The problem is I do not want to get rid of power from solar panels.
A solar charger just turns the panels off/on to regulate.

Bur I need a dump controller for the wind generator.

Should I just set max voltage at 28.8v on both controllers?

It would be easy to set tristar to dump both solar and wind,
I only want separate controllers to not dump from solar panels making heat
I do not want at this time of year.
thanks
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 10:29:06 AM by Fused »
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

Mary B

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2017, 04:32:59 PM »
Some info from Morningstar on doing it with PV arrays https://www.morningstarcorp.com/parallel-charging-using-multiple-controllers-separate-pv-arrays/ I would think the source isn't that critical, just how the charge controllers are setup.

And I run a pair of MPPT 45's in parallel but from 2 PV arrays that are identical...

SparWeb

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2017, 05:59:51 PM »
My system does this pretty much exactly as you plan to.
No problems.  Just prog the solar a touch below the wind voltage range.
I can post a pic and a schematic if you wantt.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, regulated by Xantrex C40, DIY 8ft diameter wind turbine, regulated by Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2017, 06:07:29 PM »
Thanks, I ran into that page a while back when searching online.
The 2 controllers will only connect at the battery connection.
The solar controller I bought has 4 pwm stages so I thought
I would turn off auto equalize on tristar and let the solar controller
maintain the batteries.
All I want from the tristar is the dump mode for the wind generator.
I hope I can make them play nicely with each other.
Thank you

Doug
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2017, 06:08:29 PM »
Pics are great!!

I would appreciate a schematic.

Thank you
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 07:02:44 PM by Fused »
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

SparWeb

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2017, 10:18:09 PM »
Let's see if I can post a PDF of my current system schematic:
* System_Schema_2016.pdf (115.21 kB - downloaded 42 times.)
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, regulated by Xantrex C40, DIY 8ft diameter wind turbine, regulated by Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024

SparWeb

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2017, 10:25:00 PM »
Yup,
That worked.
And here is a picture of the "Batt Cave".
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, regulated by Xantrex C40, DIY 8ft diameter wind turbine, regulated by Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2017, 09:38:12 AM »
Thanks for that.
I was told by a friend that
"The 2 controllers need to have the same algorithms.
I do have 2 different pwm controllers.

Both are programmable.
the solar controller is default set at
equalization 29.2v
float 27.4 v

My tristar is set at
30.2v equalization
28.8v pwm asorbition

could these work together?
Thanks for the help.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 10:17:05 AM by Fused »
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2017, 10:14:56 AM »
Not being very tech smart. Not wanting to damage my tristar......
I will just set the tristar to dump mode for all.
Thanks for everyone's help.

Doug
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

SparWeb

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2017, 02:24:14 PM »
Your friend isn't wrong, so it does look like they'll do well together.  I would just tweak the advice to say "similar algorithms" rather than "same".

Something I've never tried - and you should watch carefully - is whether both the solar and wind can equalize without interfering with each other.

I've set my solar CC to never equalize.  Eq only happens on wind.  That way I don't have to worry about the solar CC trying to raise voltage above the wind CC's dump voltage threshold, which would defeat the purpose, since all the energy would go into the dump load, not into equalizing the batteries.  If my dump load wasn't just an air heater, but heated a hot water tank or some other useful thing, then I would be seriously interested in getting some solar excess run into heat.  Alas, I'm not that technically advanced, either.

None of this will damage either CC.  They are both capable of monitoring voltage, and protected against overvoltages present in 48v systems, so nowhere near those limits in your 24v system.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, regulated by Xantrex C40, DIY 8ft diameter wind turbine, regulated by Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2017, 03:22:24 PM »
Wow I like your advice after setting it today for dump load and heated up a 1000w resistor.
Thank you so much.
I'm heading to my little control room to install solar controller
and program it for no eq.

thanks again...

Doug
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2017, 06:49:21 PM »
I should have known better than to try to save a couple bucks on
the solar controller.
It was total junk. Button for adjustment popped out, it would not
let me select battery type.
Junk.
I will repeat the process when I get a quality controller.
I too am in Sparwebs situation, when I replace my hot water heater
I will make sure it has room for 2 elements. I have a 600 watt water heater element.
For now I will just heat air.
And put a load on it before it gets to regulation voltage.

Thanks all

Doug
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

SparWeb

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2017, 05:38:45 PM »
There are a lot of cheap "harbor freight" styles CC's out there.

The Trace/Xantrex/Schneider C40 may not be the best but it's also not the most expensive, and it's got a solid 25 year history.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, regulated by Xantrex C40, DIY 8ft diameter wind turbine, regulated by Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2017, 12:33:31 PM »
Thanks for the information.
Ultimately I will get another tristar 45 to install for solar.

For now I have 2 big 24v muffin fans on a switch for on/off.

Now I just have to figure out how to turn the fans on when
resistor gets voltage.
I first thought I could connect fans at tristar dump terminals
but was told it pulses low voltage too fast to work.

Your schematic shows your dump load fans are connected
just as I mentioned.

So for now, I turn off solar + (positive) when I leave the house.

Doug
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 01:29:28 PM by Fused »
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

OperaHouse

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2017, 01:44:56 PM »
I had a dump load that pulsed.  I just fed the voltage across the resistor to the fan through a diode and resistor. Fan had a capacitor of about 1,000uF to average out the voltage.  Fairly simple, when enough power is going to the resistor the fan automatically starts spinning.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2017, 03:35:17 PM »
I like your idea.
I can search online for such a capacitor.
How do I find what size resistor I would need?
Do you happen to have a schematic of this?
I have a 10a diode.

Thanks
Doug
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

OperaHouse

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2017, 04:00:26 PM »
With 24V fans you would want to drop about 6V from a max voltage of about 30V.  If the fans were to draw together about .25A that would be   6V/.25A = 24 ohms.  Anything close will work.  You just don't want zero resistance so the cap appears as a short to the controller or kill the cap with high current pulses. If you get over 100uF on the cap it will likely work fine.  You should use at least a 50V rated capacitor.  Got an old PC power supply?  They have two 200-330uF caps at 200V.  I use them in my system and they handle pulses reliably.

Here is another option. The fans could be connected directly to the batteries through one or two relays.  Same setup with diode resistor and capacitor.  A 24V relay will pull in at about 16V and drop out at about 5V.  The resistor would be in the 100 ohm range.  In a two relay system, each relay could be set up with a different resistance so that one fan comes on first and the second comes on later.

Seeing the fans speed up with increasing load diversion is kinda neat.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2017, 04:33:27 PM »
Seeing the fans speed up with increasing load diversion is kinda neat.

I agree it sounds like the more fun route.
But it is a bit over my skill level.

I need to look through what I have and may
be able to find what I need for your first idea..

It needs to stay simple but effective.  8)

Thank you
Doug
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

OperaHouse

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2017, 04:39:53 PM »
Just what are the ratings of this fan, wattage, current, is it brushless?  You must have some old electronics around to salvage parts out of.  The capacitor is slightly optional, just something to absorb the spikes of the motor and keep the motor from singing.  I don't believe in spending money for electronics.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2017, 05:20:51 PM »
I have 4 ohm 50 watt ceramic resistors
I also found 2- 37v 1000uf...parallel?

the 2 24v dc fans are rated at .25a

Ill keep looking

thanks
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 05:47:57 PM by Fused »
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

Mary B

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2017, 06:37:17 PM »
Series the capacitors to boost voltage, that will drop capacitance to 500uf which is fine for this.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2017, 06:45:37 PM »
ok thanks
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2017, 11:03:04 AM »
Would my resistor do the job?
If it would be ok, I can get this assembled today.
Thanks all.

oops one more question?

In my head I start with resistor on dump load +
then capacitors then diode to fan motors.
Am I right?
Doug
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.

OperaHouse

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2017, 04:26:16 PM »
Diode first from the controller otherwise the capacitor will discharge through the dump load.  Sure try it out.  With that data we'll know what to mod if any.

Fused

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Re: Solar on seperate controller with wind generator
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2017, 05:18:22 PM »
Thanks, I only put the diode on the wrong end.
No problem.
Now I will have to wait for sunshine.
Still a few days away.

Thanks again

Doug
System specs: 480 watts peak solar, 8- 6v duracell batteries at 24v controlled with tristar 45,, wind generator is axial flux
with 5 foot blades

if good guys don't carry guns, only the bad guys will.