GaryGary gary@BuildItSolar.com www.BuildItSolar.com[ Parent ]
Is the HDPE not acceptable because of the blue dye ? I'm asking because I used to be an engineer for a flexible pipe company that used several different plastics for the inner liner, but the only one that was acceptable for potable water was HDPE (black).
In general, for food or water containers, I would trust HDPE the most (as long as the temperature is below 60C/140F), with PP (Polypropylene) being second, and better for high temperatures.
Dave[ Parent ]
You shouldn't even have any barrels that have been used to transport ANY hazardous material, unless the drum has been triple rinsed and labelled as such. A brand new FDA approved drum is only about $50.
An empty olive oil drum would be fine.
Using rain water for drinking is also a questionable practice, unless you filter it. Bathing, washing clothes and toilet flushing would be acceptable uses. If you are going to drink it, brush your teeth with it or cook with it, you should get it from a reputable source. The local water utility in Fort Lauderdale used to actually encourage people to bring gallon jugs to a tap in front of the plant and help yourself. They thought it was stupid to pay for bottled water, when tap water was so tightly regulated by the Feds.
Unless the drums have been damaged, they should have been sent back for reuse. When we bought solvent for press wash, we had to fight to return the drums because it cost the sender, but we didn't want to be stuck with finding a way to legally dispose of the drums. Even empty drums that have not been triple rinsed were still considered to have the same hazard class as a full drum and transporting the empty required a license and paperwork.
Cutting the top AND bottom off is the minimum required by the local waste hauler.
http://www.kentuckybarrels.com/RainBarrels.html
I think the alcohol would sterilize them pretty well.
My local Pepsi distribution plant always has a few, one use, 55 gallon syrup drums (food grade) and I got them for free and use 5 for rainwater collection. They don't even bottle at this plant--just distribute-- the warehouse guy just keeps a few on hand for locals who want them. Much safer.
oh or a half barrel vawt
wvo settling drum hmm the ideas just keep coming [ Parent ]
I'm still thinking that the white ones, with soap in them could be used for drinking water. But I'm not going to do anything rash.
Even if I don't use them for drinking, I could still use the water they hold for lots of other things. Even when I was hooked up to the local water company, I would never drink their water anyway. More often than not they had a "boil first" order in place. So it won't be much different even if my water is stored in a bunch of toxic barrels. ;)
Rainwater can be very safe to drink. Where to start: http://www.twdb.state.tx.us/iwt/Rainwater.asp Read this book: http://www.twdb.state.tx.us/publications/reports/RainwaterHarvestingManual_3rdedition.pdf
Good read about the Effects of first flush on rainwater quality: http://www.irc.nl/page/29189
Now you will know more than most everybody about rainwater. Spread sheet for calculating the size of storage container based on monthly rain fall and usage can be found, if not ask me.
Have fun, Scott.[ Parent ]
Good, now can talk about important things. Sisters live in NM, rain fall is same as MI. Yet, they need 5,000 gal tank to make it through the 5 months with little rain. Here in MI 2,500 gal tank is fine, maybe little smaller. Rain more consistent.
To sterilize the Rainwater UV and Ozone are the better choices. UV bulb can fail and must be replaced each year, not a cheap bulb. Ozone is more expensive up front, yet should work for years, as in decades. UV draws 3x the power of Ozone, further enhancing the Ozone choice. Ozone can be bubbled into a tank sterilizing the whole tank, not possible with UV. Other uses for Ozone. Only needs to be on while its raining.
One big tank or many little ones? I considered 55gal tanks, then realized how many needed 45 for 2500 gal, 90 for 5,000 gal. Realized the fittings would cost more than the one big tank! Example: http://cgi.ebay.com/2500-Gallon-Poly-Fresh-Water-ONLY-Storage-Tank-Tanks_W0QQitemZ120313239938QQcmdZ ViewItemQQptZBI_Farm_Supplies?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116 $865. Do not like to put all my eggs into one basket, so will use two 2500 gal for sisters house. Also cheaper than one 5,000 gal tank? Go figure.
First flush. Not found a device I like, either cost or design. Attempted my own design, not like them either. Have long list of requirements. Still looking/designing.
Self cleaning gutters. Found ALL self cleaning gutters do NOT work, what a disappointment. (they can have limited success under certain conditions). Designed my own very happy with (as a design).
Hope this was helpful. Have fun, Scott.[ Parent ]
First flush: I plan to use a passive system with a section of PVC pipe with a small hole in the bottom, that has to be filled before any water will enter the storage tanks. I will put a screen where the water dumps from the gutters into the storage system, to keep out things that are big enough to plug the hole, from getting in.
Storage Capacity: This is for weekend use only so the requirements are pretty low. When I was hooked up the to water company, we typically used about 3000 gallons a year. We also have very steady rains throughout the year with about 50" total and no months that average less than 2. Finally, my back up plan, my neighbor plans to get hooked back up to the public water supply (when it is available) and he will let me top off from that if I need to.
Plumbing and fittings expense: Since these barrels have 2 openings on top, I plan to use one to fill and the other as a siphon, with a piece of pvc inserted 80-90% of the way to the bottom. But this plan may change.
If I use the white barrels I will have to paint them so that they are opaque. I also plan to place the barrels about 8' off the ground so that I can use a gravity feed system for most uses.
Finally sterilizing the water: This is the biggest issue with a rain water system. I will probably start without any sterilization and just not drink the water. Once everything else is up and running I'll see what my budget will allow.
One more thing I like about using barrels is that I can fill one here and bring it down with me for drinking water.[ Parent ]
Forgot to mention Roof must be metal or title to use for drinking. don't want the tar in the drinking water.
RV water pumps are cheap decent flow for showers. (I use a RV pump as backup well water pump during power outages)
Sounds like you have things well covered.
I'm planning on a galvanized corrugated steel roof with a peak on one side so it will only need one gutter.
Yes it will be heavy...but it will ride in the back of a pickup pretty east. Then I'll use a come along to lift it out of the truck and up on to the "Water deck" where the barrels will live.
Eventually, when I get a travel trailer to put out there it will probably have a built in tank and pump that I can hook up.[ Parent ]
A VAWT might be interesting, but I want real power, not just a big contraption taking up half my yard. [ Parent ]
the others i woudl be weary of..but I'm sure you can find plenty of uses for them.
allot of canoers love those barels as they need watertight stuff to keep the gear afloat in a flip.
if you sell them you could make a good bit of $$ for other projects. Thanx Darren
This does happen, and the chemicals in question tend to be phthalates which are their to plasticise the plastic, basically they keep it supple. However, these phthalates even manage to leach out of drinking water bottles (and those that once contained fizzy pop).
In my last job, I tested ground water. This was usually delivered to us in whatever bottle the sampler hand to hand, often the lemonade bottle he'd had with his lunch! Plasticisers were always present. They were so much 'always there' that I used them to check the function if the instrument.
. "Slowly changing the world, one watt at a time!"
Cleaning them to medical standards is more expensive than buying a new drum, so they're usually willing to give you however many you want. When you open them, they'll smell like vinegar - no surprise. Rinse them, let them air out, and you're ready to go.
PS: these are all for use for people with $0 income, and getting NO help from County, State, or Government agencies!Rural McG
Instead of a come-along or whatever to lift the filled barrel from your truck, might wanna consider a cheap 12 v. pump and length of hose. If you drop that barrel, full, it can be a danger and a hassle in any case [voice of experience here, been messing with this sort of thing for 30+ yr.]. Also, likely don't even need to point this out, but be very, very sure you have that barrel secured for the drive when it's full. I finally took some lumber and build a small, simple, easy to remove and store deal that holds the barrel in place at its base, then rope to secure it up at the level of the truck bed. You can lose a tail gate or rear cab window when a sharp turn or bad bump in the road cause that barrel to let go.
I keep a couple of the white barrels in my greenhouse as a backup water source since now and then our water line from the cistern will freeze up for a couple days. Probably not your problem. But I have to clean out the barrels every couple yr. because no matter how careful we are, algae and dust and a few insects and etc. will get in them. I carry them outdoors and slosh a little bleach in them, rinse them out well.
We use water from a cistern, reverse osmosis for keeping it honest. The filters for the r.o. unit run $50 and make it a year in our situation.
For drinking, I really believe you'd only need one or two drums, so the pepsi syrup drums or any other food product drum would be a safe bet.
Many survivalists here in Utah, and new $40 blue HDPE drums for basement drinking water back-up storage is popular. Havent done this myself, so I don't know if its a good idea.
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