Fieldlines.com || LENZ TURBINE

Front Page - [Homebrewed Electricity-- (wind) (solar) (hydro) (steam) (controls) (storage) (mechanical)] - Classifieds - Site News
Everything - Newbies - [Remote Living-- (housing) (heat) (light) (water)] - Reviews - Diaries - Our Products

LENZ TURBINE
By johnjach, Section Homebrewed Electricity Posted on Wed Oct 22, 2003 at 11:31:15 AM MST
Ed: When can we see some photos/drawings of you new VAWT?

I'm going to experiment with VAWTs and I was wondering when we'll see some new photos or drawings of Ed's latest ideas about the "Lenz Turbine?"

LENZ TURBINE | 8 comments (8 topical)

Re: LENZ TURBINE - cheeze cutter theory (none / 0) (#1)
by windstuffnow on Wed Oct 22, 2003 at 01:31:21 PM MST

The latest one, I haven't taken any pictures of as yet. Still in the testing stages as well as making some mods. Things are quite busy right now so my progress on that area has slowed a bit. It has however morphed into a different and unique little beast.

Below is a drawing of the 2nd version, This also helped to increase torque but I think there are more possibilities yet to be explored.

The version I'm working on now will help direct as much of the air flow through the outer diameter and has a bit different wing design. Since the forces are basically wasted the closer to center you get by directing the air flow where it will do the most good.

I came up with a better way to imagine what was going on as the wind passed through a turbine. I was trying to think of a mass that would work like pudding, jello... I had to laugh then thought of a cheeze cutter. Its easier to imagine what would happen to the cheeze if pressed through a turbine, so if you imagine your turbine as a cheeze cutter, you can see what it will do to the cheeze as its pressed through the machine. After that a whole slew of ideas flooded my mind. So far its quite impressive.

Have Fun... more to come soon

Have Fun
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed

Re: LENZ TURBINE - cheeze cutter theory (none / 0) (#5)
by monte350c on Thu Oct 23, 2003 at 10:52:25 AM MST

Hi Ed,

Looks really interesting. Would a 4' wide x 8' high unit do 400-500 watts at 18 mph?

If I'm following you correctly, increased diameter of this unit should be a good thing. Of course that will result in slower rpm, but not really a problem if a large diameter alternator is used. If the tip speed is up, then Re number will be too and it seems that venturi you have going will be more active... especially on the upwind side.

I'm really looking forward to your developments on this one - good luck and looks like you're already having fun!

Ted.

[ Parent ]

Re: LENZ TURBINE - cheeze cutter theory (none / 0) (#6)
by windstuffnow on Thu Oct 23, 2003 at 01:25:59 PM MST

Ted,
I've only built small ones for testing purposes to this point and from my past experience small units tend to be more efficient than larger ones. Assuming it would scale up and maintain the efficiency I'm getting with the test unit and you were using an 80% efficient alternator it would make 400+ watts in an 18mph wind not including any line or other losses. I think 500 watts would be pushing the possibilities a bit. I expect when all is said and done, not including some new ideas for the next version, a respectable overall efficiency of 38 to 40% can be achieved using an efficient alternator. I've seen as high as 52% efficiency at the output shaft using a difuser system. As the wind speed increases the efficiency typically decreases. All my tests were done in a constant 12.5mph wind so the outcome at different speeds will vary.
When I've exhausted my various ideas and don't feel I can increase the output any further I plan to build a counter rotating dual rotor system with a diffuser. I plan to keep the rotor diameter small ( 2 ft ) and make each unit 4ft tall. The collection area will be about the size you mentioned above ( 32sq ft). Each will have its own alternator.
Your right, this has been an extreemly fun and learnative adventure.

Having fun
Ed

Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]

Re: LENZ TURBINE - cheeze cutter theory (none / 0) (#7)
by kww on Fri Oct 24, 2003 at 08:32:33 PM MST

Hi Ed,
I was wondering about how much weight had to do with the bigger machines not being as efficient as the lighter ones, then I had the idea to use two rings of magnets, one on the rotating assembly and one on the base, turned to repell so the whole rotating assembly floats on a vertical shaft. I bet that'd boost efficiency. They float trains down the tracks these days so I know it can "easily" be done. What do you think?
Kevin

[ Parent ]

Re: LENZ TURBINE - cheeze cutter theory (none / 0) (#8)
by windstuffnow on Fri Oct 24, 2003 at 09:21:47 PM MST

Hi Kevin,
Bearings these days are pretty efficient and I don't think the amount of losses through a bearing is really that drastic. Probably more so in the winter. Suspending the rotors would still require a bearing support for the shaft. Completly suspending the rotors would cause lots of problems. If you could completely suspend them I bet they'd spin on a whisper! That would be a fun project to play with, lots of challenges. Maybe start real small...
Weight may play a significant roll in efficiency decrease's in larger units.

Have Fun
Ed

Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]

Re: LENZ TURBINE (none / 0) (#2)
by johnjach on Wed Oct 22, 2003 at 01:49:04 PM MST

WOW!! Totally unique, thanks Ed. As I said on this board several times, I'm interested in experimenting with VAWTs and this looks like something worthy of spending the time fabricating. The "J" airfoils would be easy to form but the center portion poses more of a challenge. It looks like something tailor made for an extrusion process but I don't have that kind of machinery. The center is obviously three arcs of circle, which would be easy to do by just bending planar material such as aluminum or plexiglass. But to achieve that varying thickness element will require some brainstorming. Possibly first making a mold then doing it in plastic resin. Oh well, keep us posted. Your "Lenz Turbine" is very interesting--and your renderings are great. Should be more renderings like this on the board.

Re: LENZ TURBINE (none / 0) (#3)
by windstuffnow on Wed Oct 22, 2003 at 04:04:33 PM MST

Actually the center is quite simple. Its basically the original triangle cut to shape the new core. Once you have the triangle drawn or cut out, the semi circles are drawn in and cut out. The metal ( or what ever you use) can easily be attatched to the plywood core. The next one is a bit easier, including the wings... Don't know as yet if it will prove to be better but... here's hoping... I only have a few more watts to eeeek out to match the Betz...

The largest stumbling block I faced wasn't in learning new ways of extracting power from the wind... it was the process of unlearning, then I could move forward more freely.

Have Fun
Ed
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]

Re: LENZ TURBINE (none / 0) (#4)
by hvirtane on Wed Oct 22, 2003 at 04:34:58 PM MST

Hello,

this development is the most interesting machine
I've seen on this website. I'm quite convinced that
one day someone will make a VAWT, which is both simple and effective at the same time.

This machine by Ed... I'm waiting for some measurements concerning the power characteristics...

- Hannu

LENZ TURBINE | 8 comments (8 topical)

Menu

� create account
� How to use the board
� FAQs
� search the board
� Google search the board

Login

Make a new account

Username:

Password:

Total Views

��111 Scoop users have viewed this posting.

Related Links

� Also by johnjach

You must be a registered user to post here. It's easy and free, and the link is on the upper right side of your page.
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Postings are owned by the poster, but may be deleted or moved at the ADMIN's sole discretion. The Rest � 2009 Forcefield.
You can Email the board ADMIN here. PLEASE include the username you signed up with!