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Poured Stator ?
By Jerry, Section Homebrewed Electricity Posted on Mon Nov 10th, 2003 at 11:02:25 PM MST
Poured Stator ? for I-fred and Ed/winstuff

I-Fred.
How did you make the form to poure the stator? How is this project comming? How is the efficientcy of your poured stator?
Ed
You said in your report on your web page that the efficientcy wasc down abit on your poured stator. How dose this difer from I-Freds?
I've notice that I-Freds stator most resembles an AC induction motor. This type of stator may have benifits from both the disc design as well as AC motor coversion.
I see the higher pole and magnet count as one over the AC motor.
And I see a reduced air-gap problem of the disc alt since the coils are imbebed within the laminations and therefor more involved with the magnetic circut.
Give me your thoughts guys cause I realy like the looks of these things and want to try one.
JK TAS Jerry

Poured Stator ? | 16 comments (16 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Poured Stator ? (none / 0) (#1)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 06:07:07 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

Hi Jerry,
I believe iFreds is using a non metalic version as I posted some time back for the dual rotor alternator. My attempt that's posted on my site was for a "quickie" laminated stator by adding iron poweder to the plastic mix. The end result is very inefficient. It does make it very easy to put together a slotted stator but there are alot of losses. The steel laminates either using 1018 strips to form a stator and either slotting them or laying coils over them is far better than the poured iron powder. The silicon steel is far superior. For a quickie project the poured core unit is quite fun, quick and simple and you can usually put an alternator together in a day or two using the poured methods.

Have Fun
Ed

Have Fun! Windstuff Ed

Re: Poured Stator ? (none / 0) (#2)
by Jerry on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 09:46:59 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.dplusv.com/Photo-03.html

Thanks Ed
I noticed your design and iFreds are diferant. I was thinking of using the steel lamination as normal and pouring the iron/epoxy mix on the steel.

The idea here is to have the good preformance of the steel and use the mix as a medium as a path for the flux to follow. This to enhance the flux stringth inwhat otherwize is just open air, the gap between the coils and the laminatins. Surely the iron mix will be more conductive to the magnetic flux than air would be. I see the iron past mix as a much better path than just air.

I would use iFreds design and simple mold the stator on top og the steel laminations. The holes for the coils would would just tuch the top of the steel.

If this worked the gap could be wider with more wire with the mix in the gap. Also the magnets could be placed very close to this hybred stator.

Just a thought? Could be all wrong?

JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: Poured Stator ? (none / 0) (#6)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 02:11:00 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

If your coils are going to be thin it may be better to simply pour the plastic and either drill or machine the plastic on top of the steel core. I think the iron powder will lower the efficiency. You could drill the steel for the coils similar to my original idea of drilling a plastic form for the dual rotor machine. This works quite well although it takes a bit more time

This is one of the cores from the 2500 watt machine I did last summer. It has a plastic overlay on the silicon steel and the plastic was machined to hold the wires in place...

Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]

Re: Poured Stator ? (none / 0) (#7)
by kmitchel on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 02:38:16 PM MST
(User Info)

Can u provide more details about this 2500 watt monster, please? More pictures the better.

[ Parent ]

Re: Poured Stator ? (none / 0) (#8)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 03:53:04 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

I tried to do a search on the unit as I posted it sometime ago but couldn't find it. It was actually suppose to be a higher wattage but fell short of my goal. It was meant to produce 1000 watts at a very low rpm and up to 5kw. It ended up being around 1/2 of my intended goal. Its in the corner waiting for some alterations. Here are the pics I posted from before....

Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]

Re: Poured Stator ? (none / 0) (#13)
by wooferhound (tim((NoSpamAt))wooferhound.com) on Wed Nov 12th, 2003 at 05:52:23 AM MST
(User Info) http://wooferhound.com

Here are all the stories you have posted
http://www.fieldlines.com/user/windstuffnow/stories
I think the one you are talking about is titled "MultiDisk Alternator Preview"

}=- W o o f -={
[ Parent ]

Re: Poured Stator ? (none / 0) (#14)
by Reno on Thu Nov 13th, 2003 at 12:16:01 PM MST
(User Info)

Hey Ed where would one find silicon steel.
I was thinking if a mandrel was made of steel lams
and then the mag wire wound around it then mounted to the mold
Then resin poured around everything.

[ Parent ]

Re: Poured Stator ? (none / 0) (#15)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Thu Nov 13th, 2003 at 03:38:53 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

Hi Reno,
I usually keep a little bit in stock for my own projects but occasionally I get requests for some. Let me know what size ( OD and ID ) and I'll see if I have enough to fill your needs.

Have Fun
Ed

Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]

Re: Poured Stator ? (none / 0) (#3)
by iFred (ifred2006@yahoo.com) on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 10:02:31 AM MST
(User Info)

Hi Jerry.
My stator core is a composite of 90% iron grindings and 10% fiberglass resin. Ed is correct, you would get much much more output from thin metal laminations then from a poured core form, however there is major fun that comes from putting together a pour core mold. The intial tests show that it is working well, and I beleive it could be enhenced further, which I am attempting to do. I beleive with embedding some laminations into the pour code as well (esp; in the poles) the output could go much higher. I am presently working on a 13 inch disk with this idea as well.

Take a look at the wood form that I make on this page of my web site. I used wood dowels and a simple form. http://www.internetfred.com/newgen/newgen.html
this produced the mold.

The idea for the poured core form came from Ed, I got it from him. He's a master at building things!! Amazing some of the stuff he comes up with.

My suggestions on to building one are, increase the width of the core and thus longer wire per pole. Longer and more magnets, thinner poles. larger slots for more wire.

Good Luck!
>> all energy used to produce this comment or post came from solar and wind energy! It works!

Re: Poured Stator ? (none / 0) (#4)
by ibedonc on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 10:56:32 AM MST
(User Info)

were are you getting your iron filings from , ? are you grinding your own ?

[ Parent ]

Re: Poured Stator ? (none / 0) (#5)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 02:01:07 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

I bought some from a "Teacher Center" but later robbed them from the local brake shops. They have tons of shavings and their more than happy to let you have them.

Have Fun
Ed

Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]

Re: Poured Stator ? (none / 0) (#9)
by iFred (ifred2006@yahoo.com) on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 04:05:13 PM MST
(User Info)

A local brake shop, when they grind the breaks it leaves a nice grinding power material, I semi clean it and sift it. I wear a mask for this because it might contain some hazerdous materials, but it's just a percation. They have lots and are more then willing to give it.

>> all energy used to produce this comment or post came from solar and wind energy! It works!

Re: Poured Stator ? (none / 0) (#10)
by iFred (ifred2006@yahoo.com) on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 04:19:11 PM MST
(User Info)

To Ed.
I gotta tell you Ed, I have been reading allot of electrical power technology books lately, and some of your designs on the mathematics end are pretty close to near specs on the practical side. Your good dude! real good! Keep it up, or I'll catch up soon...LOL

above all....Have FUN!!
And have a GREAT DAY!

>> all energy used to produce this comment or post came from solar and wind energy! It works!

Re: Poured Stator ? (none / 0) (#11)
by Jerry on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 08:50:50 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.dplusv.com/Photo-03.html

iFred did you just pull the wood dowls out after the resin set or did you drill them out? What was the outside form in your mold. OH the inside to? I would think if you kept the slots narow were you slip the coil wire through, the cogging would not be to bad?

Did you wind the coils first and then drop them in place or did you wind in place around each pole or did you do wave winding? I think thats 3 ?

Thanks guys.

JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: Poured Stator ? (none / 0) (#12)
by iFred (ifred2006@yahoo.com) on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 11:22:22 PM MST
(User Info)

Hi Jerry

Glad I can help and anwser your questions.
The bottom of the form is plywood, to this I glued a paper template that was filled with guidelines 22.7 deg apart. to the outside of the mold I cut some sheet metal (duct metal) and wrapped it around wood base and used some wood screws to hold everything in place. (i used some duct tape in the bottom to prevent spillage. The center was also made of wood. I then gave this part of the mold a coat of varnish.

When I finished the build, I cut the dowels to a single length, then I sanded them (ends) individually to fit for each position. I did this 32 times, once for each dowel. I then marked each position on the dowels, just in case. I then greased everything down very well including each dowel individually. Everything was a tight fit, it's critical to get a tight fit.

I measured everything and mixed the iron grindings and resins together, had to work quickly.. ...(resin went around and under the dowels when packed in slightly, but not enough to jar the dowels(the tight fit-:)). Also: To prevent bubbles and stuff I continually shook, rotated and gently slapped down the mold to make sure the stuff got into all areas of the mold. and continued to pack as much as possible up to the top of the third layer of the mold. The third layer tells where to end.

When completed the dowels popped out with very little problems, only one gave me an problem and I had to drill it out. But all in all the dowels came out smooth. Next I used my dermal to cut out the centers in the top between the poles. The slots where narrow to allow the wire to go through and just a little extra. Dermal with a cutting blade works great on this material!

The cogging is minimal. I used a metal plate made of multi sheets (not suggested) of sheet metal (in order to get thickness). I am still experimenting but I have 32 mags x 3 for width. YUP! you read correct.. 3 magnets per pole in lenght! 96 small mags 1/2 x 1/8 each.. Got a ton of them, don't ask ;-)

I wound each wire around each poel by hand, 25 times per pole. Man my fingers where killing me, I was shaking after doing 15 poles! LOL... Oh and... they where tightly wound and pressed into each pole with a peice of small hardwood I carved so i could fit in the most wire as I was winding each pole. It's very tighly wound ;->

Hope this helps!!

>> all energy used to produce this comment or post came from solar and wind energy! It works!
[ Parent ]

Re: Poured Stator ? (none / 0) (#16)
by Jerry on Thu Nov 13th, 2003 at 10:19:42 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.dplusv.com/Photo-03.html

Thanks iFred
This helps a buch.
I thought someone mentioned on this board about a powdered iron food suppliment use to feed young pigs and you can get it at the farm store.

Is there any truth to this? JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Poured Stator ? | 16 comments (16 topical, 0 editorial)

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