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Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props
By wooferhound, Section Homebrewed Electricity Posted on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 05:27:21 PM MST
Plans for PVC Pipe Props inspired by Zubbly and the OtherPower IRC Chatters

While chatting on OtherPower IRC last night, I found that some folks were confused about exactly how to build the PVC Pipe Props that Zubbly and Me were designing. So here is my best effort with the Windows 98 Paint program to show as many details as I could think up . . .

On the upper left is the basic Template Drawing that I've been working and building off of. Lets design a 4 foot prop with a 25 degree Hub (or Root) angle, and a 7 degree Tip Angle for this explaination. The diameter of the pipe will determine the width of the blades. For blades that average 4 inches wide at a 25 degree hub angle, you will need a Pipe Diameter in the 10 to 12 inch range.
Cut your Pipe to 4.5 feet long. Draw a Centerline down the entire length of the pipe and accuratly mark the centerline on the inside of both ends of the pipe. This will be the Trailing edge. Also mark onto the centerline the Center Point between the ends of the pipe. This will be the Bolt Hole.
Put the centerpoint of a protractor against the inside centerline mark on the pipe and find where the 7 degree point is on the inside of the pipe, make your mark there. Next find where the 25 degree point is on the same side of the pipe, and mark that point on the inside of the pipe. accuratly mark the outside of the pipe at these points too. Repeat this step on the otherend of the pipe.
The center of the prop is a circle (or oval) with the bolt hole in the middle of it. The outsides of this circle will be the same distance from the centerline as the 25 degree marks that you marked on the ends of the pipe. I would cut out a thin cardboard circle and wrap it around the pipe centered on the bolt hole mark and trace around it with a marker.
Turn a metal tape measure around backwards and lay it numbers down onto the pipe with one end lined up to the circle and the otherend lined up to the Tip Angle mark at one end of the pipe. draw this line onto the pipe, and repeat for the otherend of the pipe.
All the markings are done now. Since there are no cuts into the circle or through the blades you might want to erase or markout the areas in the center that don't get cut. These areas are the dotted lines in the drawings above.
Time to start cutting. I think a Recipricating Saw works great. You can just cut straight into the pipe and get Good results. But if you angle the cuts as shown at the bottom of the drawing above, it provides a much longer path for the air around the back of the prop, improving efficiency. This is harder to do though because you want the cut to follow your markings as if they were on the inside of the pipe. You will see when you try to cut it.
Now you have a new PVC Pipe Prop that will spin like carzy in the slightest of wind.
Here is a picture af a 3 foot 4 blader prop experiment that I made from small 1 1/4 inch low pressure pipe . . .

Hope this helps Ya'll to make some cheap wind power.
Thanks to Zubbly for the inspiration to make the props and the ideas for the drawings !!
Also Thanks to many on IRC Chat who have helped with the details !!

Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props | 31 comments (31 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (3.00 / 0) (#25)
by quahogwi on Thu Jul 22nd, 2004 at 04:45:15 PM MST
(User Info)

Hi, I'm new in the neighborhood.

Going back to the first post that contained the plans. How would one go about determining what size pvc pipe to start off with? In these examples it says to use a 10" to 12" pipe. But in a later post someone commented about having used 1.5" or 2" pvc. Is there some rule of thumb to apply when making a prop from any given diameter pipe?

Thanks,
Dave Brown

Anyone ran these blades for any length of time now (3.00 / 0) (#27)
by Ziggy on Sat Mar 5th, 2005 at 09:47:44 PM MST
(User Info)

Very interesting, has anyone ran these blades on a mill for some time now? Care to share how they perform and have been holding up? I would like to try a set myself if I can locate some 10 or 12 inch pvc pipe.

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (3.00 / 0) (#28)
by keleyu on Tue May 17th, 2005 at 08:01:57 AM MST
(User Info)

good, thanks
My homepage: gadgets flashgames

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (3.00 / 0) (#29)
by andymc on Tue Aug 23rd, 2005 at 12:50:24 PM MST
(User Info)

I'm not sure I understand marking the 45 degree angle?

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (3.00 / 0) (#30)
by ghurd on Tue Aug 23rd, 2005 at 01:19:07 PM MST
(User Info)

I think the 45' degrees is for reference.

I use a piece of poster board, mark out everything, then set the pipe on the poster board and marked the pipe.
I use a 6' piece of angle aluminium set on the pipe to mark the center line on the outside of the pipe.

Don't stray too much from their design. The more I got away from it, the worse everything worked, regardless of diameter. With a straight leading and trailing edge at least.

G-

[ Parent ]

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#1)
by zubbly on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 06:30:58 PM MST
(User Info) www.zubbly.com

by gads but you are good!. thank you for expressing the combined efforts of all of us. dreaming it up in my mind is one thing, leaving it to woof to get down on paper for all to understand is your feat. well done Woofer!

thanks again-----zubbly

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#2)
by desertratjack on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 07:00:05 PM MST
(User Info)

Thank you very much. Splendid documentation and design.

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#3)
by kmitchel on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 09:05:12 PM MST
(User Info)

Thank you for contributing your work on PVC props, I've found the discussions rather fascinating. The process seems alot more elegant than hand carving wooden props. Anyhow, would it make a little more sense to describe the hub and tip angles relative to the center of the pipe? At least for construction purposes. Would it be possible for you to publish a table of blades you have constructed, including tip and hub angles prop length, and pipe diameter with a description of performance or character. With enough variations it should be possible to determine guidelines.

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#13)
by wooferhound (tim((NoSpamAt))wooferhound.com) on Wed Nov 12th, 2003 at 04:43:23 PM MST
(User Info) http://wooferhound.com

When I refer to angles here it is the angle of the face of the blade to the wind. If I want a 45 degree angle I just read out 45 degrees on the protractor. If I measured the angle relative to the center of the void pipe I would be reading 90 degrees for the 45 degree angle that I want. It was just less confusing to measure the angles like I did, and also there is not actually a point to measure from in the void eather.

As for a table of the blades I've constructed , I am just getting started. The picture above is the only blades that I've made. Zubbly basicly invented them, an I have just modified the design to work better and be easier to build. Call them Zubbly blades with the Woofer Mods.

I have questions that I want answered too . . .
How may RPMs will they take ?
What would the failure mode be ?
How long will they last in the Sun, Rain & wind ?
Any way to coat them to get them to last longer ?
How efficent are they really ?
Will they break or just bend and spring back ?
Etc...

}=- W o o f -={
[ Parent ]

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#17)
by Jerry on Thu Nov 13th, 2003 at 10:26:32 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.dplusv.com/Photo-03.html

Hey Woof I like that Zubbly blades with Woofer mods.

Has a femilier ring to it. Go Plastic people.

JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#4)
by wooferhound (tim((NoSpamAt))wooferhound.com) on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 09:06:38 PM MST
(User Info) http://wooferhound.com

I'm thinking that you would need to bend some Fender Washers to fit the curve on the pipe and have 1 or 2 bent washers on each side of the pipe and the bolt going through it all.

}=- W o o f -={

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#5)
by iFred (ifred2006@yahoo.com) on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 11:26:24 PM MST
(User Info)

Dude, thats just awesome! Thanks for sharing!
>> all energy used to produce this comment or post came from solar and wind energy! It works!

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#6)
by Guerreiro on Wed Nov 12th, 2003 at 04:07:18 AM MST
(User Info)

Would this blades be abble to take high winds without bend??
Guerreiro

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#7)
by santi on Wed Nov 12th, 2003 at 05:28:20 AM MST
(User Info)

This is my choice for pvc props, they are 1.2m dia. and very fast, even in low winds, i´m afraid they can break, perhaps a kind of reinforce can be good?

[ Parent ]

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#14)
by wooferhound (tim((NoSpamAt))wooferhound.com) on Wed Nov 12th, 2003 at 05:04:27 PM MST
(User Info) http://wooferhound.com

The rather small blades that are in the picture above are 3 feet long and made from thin low pressure 1 1/4 inch PVC tubing. These long slender thin blades are quite strong for what they are. since the blades are wide at the root and thin at the tips they tend to bend a bit at the tips in higher winds. Self furling is what I'm thinking of. In the higher winds the tips bend back out of the wind decreasing effiecency. It's extreamly hard to break PVC Pipe, It bends really well but just try to break a piece with your hands, just keeps bending and bending. Lastly the curve of the pipe is naturally strong. the root area where you need most of the strength is Very strong. The larger sizes of pipe 6 inches and up, have really thick walls, 10 and 12 inch pipe has a 3/8 inch wall thickness. This combined with the pipe curve gives impressive strength. many posts below refer to strengthening the props after they are made. I'm saying that they are really strong.

One thing that I wonder about is, since the tips can get fairly narrow, would they wobble any at high speed or high wind ?

In conclusion: bending is good , breaking is bad . . .

}=- W o o f -={
[ Parent ]

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#8)
by RobD on Wed Nov 12th, 2003 at 08:01:36 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.dsgnspec.com

I love the idea but I don't think the PVC will hold up. I'm wondering if there is another material we can use that has the same tube diameter or if we can use the PVC as a form to shape someting on.
RobD

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (3.00 / 0) (#26)
by nack on Thu Jul 22nd, 2004 at 09:00:13 PM MST
(User Info)

Forgive me if someone else has already mentioned this, but cellular core ABS drain pipe tends to be much more rugged than PVC. I agree that PVC has some problems as a structural material - I have had a few friends that just had to use the stuff for plumbing pipe (like your supposed to do with it) and found the hard way that saving a few dollars on pipe does not offset having to tear open walls and replace/repair water damaged sheetrock when the lime content (added to water to prevent erosion of concrete mains) hardens the pipe, then a toilet valve shuts off and sends a pressure wave back up the pipe resulting in plastic explosion and water everywhere. I have also seen people use sched 80 PVC for air piping in the shop - this did not have a happy ending, either. I have also had several altercations with PVC waste lines (which is part of why I feel that all PVC is a waste) where the combination of hot water and whatever else goes down a drain had em-brittled the pipe to the point where a light tap is all it needed to burst - the worst of these would have to be the 130 feet between my house and the municipal sewer tap. The previous owner of the house mentioned to me that it hadn't been more than 5 years since he had replaced about 70 of those feet, but when I dug that stuff back up, it shattered everywhere the shovel touched. I installed ABS in my mom's house about 15-20 years ago that you can still beat on with a hammer, needless to say I use ABS for any drain work that plastic is allowed in.

Sorry, I seem to be overly talkative today...What I am trying to say is use ABS, it is available in most of the same standard sizes you can get PVC in, and it really is tough.

[ Parent ]

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (3.00 / 0) (#31)
by badmoonryzn (badmoonryzn) on Mon Dec 11th, 2006 at 07:44:11 PM MST
(User Info) Too much work too little time

I agree, I have two wells and a lot of pipe going everywhere. Some of it iron, in the well to the pump, some of it PVC, 1.5" from the well to the house, and ABS 2" all of the irrigation pipe. Through the years my dad and I used everything. The PVC has failed everywhere. The iron 1" rusted so bad the pump fell off in ten years. I used ABS on the 110 foot well because I could do it in one piece. What a deal, it went in so easy with the boy and me using the loader. The pump was 30 years old and I decided to change it before it crapped out. The ABS was still pliable without problems after 15 years in the well and 175 feet underground to the house. The PVC broke when I got close with the hoe. It was replaced with ABS and I went and replaced all of the iron just for GP. I did keep using iron risers for the faucets. I tried the PVC for a small set of blades but one flexed, hit the pole and shattered. It was a 28 inch diameter three set unit cut from 10 inch pipe chunk. Looked and flew well, but it ended up in little bits. Just my experience and I suppose had i allowed for the flexing a bit more they might have lived, but you can smack the ABS as hard as you want with a BAH, (big ass hammer) and they do nothing but get a tiny mark, the ABS busts up like glass. I would guess the outside temp to be in the 55 to 60 range. I like the idea of the ABS blades and I think that is what Jerry is making his from. They are well built and done. LOL Plus he has all of the hardware. Yep, more time to do what I like, Go get the tractor and dig! I loved doing that as a kid with Buddy L and Tonka, now I have one a tad larger and I can still move the dirt. What fun! LOL

badmoon

I just wanna have some fun, maybe learn something new every day and make some friends in the process.
[ Parent ]

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#15)
by Reno on Thu Nov 13th, 2003 at 06:59:43 AM MST
(User Info)

What if you cut a double set and with PVC glue
glue one on top on the other doubling the thickness.

[ Parent ]

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#16)
by wooferhound (tim((NoSpamAt))wooferhound.com) on Thu Nov 13th, 2003 at 12:23:49 PM MST
(User Info) http://wooferhound.com

When you cut a PVC Prop you will see thier strength. Are you really sure that doubling the thickness for strength is nessesary. However I like the Idea because it gives more Thickness to make a better Airfoil.

}=- W o o f -={
[ Parent ]

Stiffening... (none / 0) (#9)
by TomW on Wed Nov 12th, 2003 at 08:06:23 AM MST
(User Info)

Guys;

I wonder if an aluminum strap behind the pvc about 1/3 or 1/2 the way out would stiffen them and add strength for high wind use?

Just a thought. I used aluminum strap "spars" behind both the jerryblades and the thin aluminum pinwheels to reduce flex.

Cheers.

TomW

Light Travels Faster Than Sound, Which Is Why Some People Appear Bright Until You Hear Them Speak.

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#10)
by Guerreiro on Wed Nov 12th, 2003 at 09:41:17 AM MST
(User Info)

I suppose that filling the interior of the tube with expandet poliuretane and then giving it a coat of fiber glass paste (the one you can use to repair cars), would make it much more strong.
Guerreiro

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#11)
by desertratjack on Wed Nov 12th, 2003 at 12:04:52 PM MST
(User Info)

There were aluminum extrusions (tubes) available in the past. One form was called "bridgerail" (for use on bridges as barriers between cars and pedestrians and as barriers to keep pedestrians/cars on the bridge in case of accident). Occasionally short pieces would be available in the construction of catamaran/trimaran crossbeams. Wish I had one now as we never knew what to do with those short pieces before!

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#12)
by RobD on Wed Nov 12th, 2003 at 04:09:47 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.dsgnspec.com

I have a couple of pieces of 4" diameter by 1/4 inch thick aluminum electrical conduit from an industrial site. I don't have enough to make a set of blades but some of you may have access to this stuff. I like the idea of fiber glassing over a form. If you look at the Air 403 blades there isn't much material so it should be hard. Trouble is I hate working with the stuff!
I think I'm going to try sheets of veneer backing criss-crossed on top of the PVC. It comes out like aircraft plywood, thin and strong. You can use poplar which is usually used for banding on burls in veneering. It's cheap and you can run a strip of aluminum HVAC tape over the leading edge.
Just some thoughts.
RobD

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#18)
by wildbill hickup (wildbill_hickup at yahoo.com) on Wed Dec 31st, 2003 at 05:46:11 PM MST
(User Info)

Woof
ON your 4 blader above. What did yopu use between ths blade sets to get them to nest together? I built a set similar to the plan above and I have about 3/4" gap between the lades where they come together in the center. Am I missing something?

Wildbill

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#19)
by wildbill hickup (wildbill_hickup at yahoo.com) on Wed Dec 31st, 2003 at 05:51:19 PM MST
(User Info)

Duh, Nevermind I just read on and found your post on the 4 blader. I guess that explains everything

Wildbill

[ Parent ]

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#20)
by Norm (peppysue@suite224.net) on Tue Feb 3rd, 2004 at 10:06:07 PM MST
(User Info)

Thanks woof! This is one that goes onto Favorites on my Special Floppys ( :>) Norm.
( :>) Norm

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#21)
by nothing to lose (nothingtolose175 at yahoo.com) on Wed Feb 4th, 2004 at 02:10:03 AM MST
(User Info)

How well have these worked on actual gennies now? I love the design an will most likely buy a chunk of pipe today and try a set soon.
Using the gray electrical pvc pipes I beleave they should hold up well in the sun, but it's fairly expensive stuff in large diameter. The cheaper stuff like green sewer pipe will not work very long for sure! I had a piece laying on the ground a year or two and the sun dried it out enough I shattered it when my cycle tire bumped it. Glad it wasn't in use :) Just extra stuff laying around!

One of my thoughts on material was trying those thick black 35gal drums. I have had 3 or 4 sitting in the yard in direct sun for several years (probably 4yrs or more).
They seem to be exactly as when I set them out. No visible drying or brittleness occuring yet. I hit one with a large hammer and got a solid thud sound. It has been sitting full of water, no damage occured to the barrel.
The barrels are about 2'6" - 3' dia I think and about 3' tall or a little over. Last I bought one it cost $6 and I figure it should make many blades of about 3'. The plastic itself is solid and thick enough to prevent much bending but yet still flexible.
Has anyone made blades from barrels such as these? They come in various colors, white, green, black, where I bought mine. I know the black held up well to the sun, not sure how the others would do. Maybe they are all UV resistant or maybe not?
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#22)
by Parameter on Wed Feb 4th, 2004 at 06:07:06 PM MST
(User Info) http://pages.infinit.net/gebet

I like that last comment. This is a great idea as the barrel are quite long and may permit nice big props.

I tough of making use of big plastic pails to make very small blades 26-30 inches for my microgenny after just giving up on doing them out of ABS.

Not a good idea, damn hard to cut clean and trim.

Para

Re:" Zub-Wolfers" (none / 0) (#23)
by arc on Sat May 22nd, 2004 at 09:30:45 PM MST
(User Info)

Just made a 5' dia. 4 blade using your design, all I could find to use today was some 4" dia. SCH 40 black ABS. Used my band saw for the bulk of the cut-out and a copping saw for the rest. I really like the design, but you're right about needing to start out with 10"-12" diameter, mine ended up pretty narrow and will likely not be too efficient in low wind conditions (which is what I need here). getting the two blade-sets bolted together was a bit tricky, but I finally got it worked out and mounted it a-top a piece of 3/4" conduit for initial testing (and of course, there is absolutely no wind since I put it up ... figures ...)

I think you should call these "Zub-Wolfers", what d'ya think!

I plan on making some more with larger diameter in the following weeks, Thanks Lots for sharing the design and drawings, it really helped out!

It's dark out now, but I'll try to post a photo in the following days.

arc

Re: Correction ... (none / 0) (#24)
by arc on Sat May 22nd, 2004 at 09:41:02 PM MST
(User Info)

That should be "Zub-Woofers" not Zub-Wolfers ~ duh ...

Oh yea, one more thing, I set the bandsaw table at 45 deg.when cutting the trailing edge and it really made a nice sharp edge and cut the leading edge perpendicular to the surface. I plan on rounding the leading edge out a bit too. Really gives it a wing shape.

... once again, great work Zub & Woof!

Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props | 31 comments (31 topical, 0 editorial)

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