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Homemade hydrogen?


By zmoz, Section Remote Living
Posted on Thu Nov 13, 2003 at 05:09:35 PM MST
What's the best way to make it?

I want to do a little experimenting with running an engine on hydrogen. I know I won't end up making very much hydrogen, but I would like to make the most that I can. I know you need to run some electricity through salty water, but what do I need to do to make the most? Should it be high volts or amps to make alot? Is there something better to use in the water besides salt? Should the wires be close together or far apart? And is it the + or - that makes the hydrogen?

Thanks :)

Homemade hydrogen? | 13 comments (13 topical)

Re: Homemade hydrogen? (5.00 / 1) (#10)
by charged on Sun Nov 23, 2003 at 05:35:14 AM MST

Electrolysis is driven SOLELY by the current flowing through the cell. The lower the resistance of the cell, the lower the voltage required to produce a given amount of current.

For maximum efficiency you DO NOT want the cell to produce heat. This means that you'll need lot's of electrode surface-area in each cell.

You'll also need a GOOD electrolyte. A light Lye solution (sodium hydroxide) will work just fine.

You can make a simple cell by using two large stainless plates of equal size with a separator membrane (artificial chamois from the autoparts store). Leave about 1/8" of space between each plate and the membrane. You'll end up with about 3/8" overall distance between the plates.

The two plates must vent at the top into two different gas outlets that are isolated from eachother.

Place about 400uf (electrolytic) of capacitance across the two plates in that cell.

You can push about 10amps per square inch MAX before you start making heat and reducing the efficiency.

You power supply, for the best outcome, should be a pulsed DC supply. A standard PWM chip is used to control a power transistor to produce what you need.

The transistor emitter is connected to a heavy inductor. The other end of the inductor goes to the positive on the cell capacitor. A heavy current recifier diode is connected in reverse-bias mode with it's cathode connected to the transistor emitter and it's anode connected to the cell capacitor negative.

The negative lead from your power-supply is also connected directly to the cell-capacitor negative.

The power supply voltage is not critical in this instance, but using higher voltages will allow greater flexibility when you build the system larger.

Here's how you adjust it. Make all your initial adjustments with your scope across the inductor.

  1. Set your PWM duty-cycle and frequency to their minimum settings.
  2. Gradually turn your duty-cycle (ON time per pulse) up until you reach the point where you see the top of the waveform becoming a DC "flat-line". Then back off the duty-cycle to get rid of that DC line. This is your ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM position for duty-cycle before the system starts wasting power. Mark it and don't ever exceed it.
  3. Leaving the duty-cycle at the max setting, turn your frequency up gradually reduce the space between the pulses on the scope. Get the frequency as high as you can without letting the pulses overlap. This is your ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM frequency setting. Mark it and don't exceed it.
You should now see some gas being generated. You can place an ammeter in series between the capacitor and the cell plate to monitor cell amperage. If your cell is getting hot, back off on the frequency a little. Keep backing off until you don't see any cell temp increase. This is the most efficient gas production point.

If you want to further increase your gas production efficiency, find a way to introduce EXTERNAL warming of the cell(s) while they are running in this thermal "sweet spot".

4. Don't automatically believe most of what you read on the web about hydrogen production.

Try it this way and you'll see that most of those so-called hydrogen "experts" are overlooking some very basic principles in their haste.

For expanding the system, make more cells just like the first, with a single capacitor across the plates. Wire the cells in SERIES. Connect the positive pulse-supply output to the topmost cell positive and the supply-negative to the bottom-most cell negative.

Each cell needs a minimum of about 2 volts. So, for a 12v supply, use a max of 5 cells in series. This gives you a tiny bit of voltage overhead to account for resistance anomolies that might crop up from time to time in the cells.

Most important, don't blow yourself up. Homemade hydrogen and oxygen are dangerous toys.

I still believe you're better off just buying lots of batteries and storing your power  in a relatively safe ionic solution. Easier to use this way too.



Re: Homemade hydrogen? (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by medion on Sat Jul 10, 2004 at 06:00:24 PM MST

Hallo

I think your cell work perfect, but I'm not good at the electronic part.

Do you have a diagram, which I can understand ?

If yes, I'ill be glad

[ Parent ]



Re: Homemade hydrogen? (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by cacci on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 06:16:46 PM MST

Recently I obtained several solar cells off solar lights whose light senser had broken (about 8 in all).  I have made a hydrogen generator out of these cells and test tubes.  Two questions I have are (1), are these solar cells more effective in series or parallel and (2) how can I increase the amount of gas being produced by these cells (i.e. higher voltage).



Re: Homemade hydrogen? (none / 0) (#1)
by kww on Thu Nov 13, 2003 at 07:38:58 PM MST

Use high quality stainless steel for the electrodes and just a little baking soda in distilled water for a long lasting generator.  I think it's simply the amount of power supplied that determines output.  Also, the neg. attracts the hydrogen I'm rather sure, but a simple match can show you the light. ;-)  Be careful, hydrogen needs no containment to explode, only some mixing with air(oxygen).  A plastic gallon milk jug half full of hydrogen and mixed with air explodes like a 12ga. shotgun going off(I don't really know that. ;-).
Kevin



Re: Homemade hydrogen? (none / 0) (#5)
by bob golding on Fri Nov 14, 2003 at 03:36:18 AM MST

a  blow up doll full of hydrogen goes off like  a bomb :-) dont ask.....

bob


[ Parent ]



Re: Homemade hydrogen? (none / 0) (#9)
by kww on Fri Nov 14, 2003 at 08:29:30 PM MST

Yet another reason not to smoke? LOL
Kevin

[ Parent ]


Re: Homemade hydrogen? (none / 0) (#11)
by wildbill hickup on Wed Dec 10, 2003 at 07:22:45 AM MST

Ya at one suggestion I used a pepsi bottle and water as a flame arrestor for a torch GLAD I did, flame backed up split the bottle right down the side. Not much hyrogen either ( 12oz botle half full of water. Big bang!!! Wife says if Dr Frankinstien is going to do more experiments she wants better life insurance and laboratory outside on other end of property. I guess I go back to wind for now.

[ Parent ]


Re: Homemade hydrogen? (none / 0) (#2)
by zmoz on Thu Nov 13, 2003 at 08:02:58 PM MST

Yeah...just a test tube full that I made tonight made a pretty loud noise. :-) In terms of more power, do I need more amps or volts...or both?



Re: Homemade hydrogen? (none / 0) (#3)
by gameman on Thu Nov 13, 2003 at 08:30:46 PM MST

hi
there's lots of info on this site
http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/hydrogengeneration.html
they also have a heater that burns hydrogen...and a hydrogen generator.
gameman

[ Parent ]


Re: Homemade hydrogen? (none / 0) (#4)
by kww on Thu Nov 13, 2003 at 08:34:44 PM MST

Both will increase output.
Kevin

[ Parent ]


Re: Homemade hydrogen? (none / 0) (#6)
by E man on Fri Nov 14, 2003 at 09:58:16 AM MST

There's also good hydrogen info over at the Homepower website:

http://www.homepower.com/magazine/downloads.cfm

...not so much about making homebrew electrolyzers but good
technical info on how to process the hydrogen (scrub out the O2),
safety, storage, making a hydrogen grill/cooker, etc.  A hydrogen  
powered barbeque...hmmmmm.

Take care

E-man  



Re: Homemade hydrogen? (none / 0) (#7)
by zmoz on Fri Nov 14, 2003 at 06:10:17 PM MST

Today I tried some stainless steel nails in a peice of PVC pipe with some salt water. (didn't have any baking soda) After about an hour running @ 12v and about an amp, the positive nail was completely liquified! Also there didn't appear to be any bubbles coming off of the positive. (oxygen) Why?? And what can I do to make this thing last a little longer than an hour?



Re: Homemade hydrogen? (none / 0) (#8)
by kww on Fri Nov 14, 2003 at 08:25:01 PM MST

You were making some chlorine gas at the positive nail, that's what happened to it. :-)  That stuff will eat about everything and will do major damage to your skin and lungs in large enough amounts.  That's another reason to use baking soda.  

Since water is H2O there's only half the O molecules so there's less gas at the positive electrode.  Also, the O bubbles are very small and aren't very noticable unless you've got lots of it being produced.  Btw, stainless steel pipe in varying sizes makes a great generator used with large 2-4" diam. rubber pipe caps.  I have a little unit that will make one liter of H and O gas in about a minute, I think it was.
Kevin

[ Parent ]



Homemade hydrogen? | 13 comments (13 topical)
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