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GARBOGEN CONVERSION


By johnjach, Section Homebrewed Electricity
Posted on Mon Nov 03, 2003 at 06:00:15 PM MST
Can an induction motor with copper coated aluminum wires be used for a garbogen?

I was just lucky enough to get two garbage disposal motors that are in like-new condition and the stators are wired with copper coated aluminum wire.  Could these be converted to a "garbogen" motor with the addition of neo magnets to the rotor?
The rotor on these is metal.

Thanks for the help.

GARBOGEN CONVERSION | 7 comments (7 topical)

Re: GARBOGEN CONVERSION (none / 0) (#1)
by Norm on Mon Nov 03, 2003 at 09:31:42 PM MST

   This isn't an expert opinion, so don't do anything based on my opinion...as I read your posting I thought ...why not...is there any advantage or disadvantage to aluminum versus copper aside from the weight or melting point? It worked okay as a motor so it ought to work just as well as a garbogen? Probably your thoughts too? So I guess we'll wait for a more expert or experienced opinion. In the meantime dream on and have fun! I'm sure these motors of yours probably have just as much potential as the ones with solid copper wire! Norm.
( :>) Norm


Re: GARBOGEN CONVERSION (none / 0) (#2)
by Jerry on Mon Nov 03, 2003 at 10:12:48 PM MST

Hi Johnjach
I've collected around 400 garbage disposals. I have plummer freinds.
Out of all these discarded motors 3 have been 1 HP.

The 1 HP garbage dispoisals have copper wire. All HP below 1 hp have aluminumwire. This is in the 1/3, 1/2 and 3/4 HP modles. The wire is not copper cuverd. It has the same varnish coating that copper wire has but there is now copper coating.

I've seen amperage ratings in these motor starting at 5.8 for the 1/3 hp and going up to 8.3 in the 3/4 hp. The large majority are 1/2 hp rated at 6.7 amps.

The 1 hp are rated at 10 amps. The one HP is the motor that I get 1200 watts from as a wind generator. This is because 10 amps at 120 volts is 1200 watts. So Its not out of the question. Also we combine the power we're getting from the start windings. The start windings are not part of that 10 amp motor rating. That rating is just for the run windings.  

I've been able to get around 700 watts from the 1/2 hp Garbage disposal motor.

I think motor conversions are not highly regarded here. I think however there is a good potential being overlooked.

I think because of there small diameter armature the asumption is there rpm requierment is to high.

But you must consider the efficientcy of there magnetic circut.

What is the gap in a disc type alt. The distance between the magnet and the lamination or between magnet and magnet. 1/4 in., 3/8 in., 1/2 in.?   It has to be wide to squeez a coil it there.

For a motor conversion I use a gap of 1/16 in. and it could be even closer. Plus the motor has the best posable lamination matereal. This magnetic circut is equivelant to a transformer and transformers have very good efficientcy.
This is part why i think the motor conversion is better than the general consensus.
Not to mention the watter resistant can, bearings, small size, light weight. All kinds of them around most free. Sigle phase , 3 phase. The single phase actully becomes a 2 phase. Can easely be used for 12, 24 or 48 volt charging by rewireing of coils conections. I'm not giving up there to good of deal.

                     JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page


[ Parent ]



Re: GARBOGEN CONVERSION (none / 0) (#3)
by Jerry on Mon Nov 03, 2003 at 10:33:53 PM MST

Was just reading about the 10 KW alt. A couple things were metioned. Heat and resitance.

In the ac motor resistance can be faily low because of the efficient small gap and magnet, coil and lamination relationship. Low resistance can mean higher current.

Heat, many motors have internal fans to move air over coils. Just a couple thoughts. There might even be more?

                          JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page


[ Parent ]



Re: GARBOGEN CONVERSION (none / 0) (#4)
by zubbly on Tue Nov 04, 2003 at 03:47:39 AM MST

hello all. i do agree that induction motors have been very overlooked as a good source for making gennys. i think this is because most have tried to used without to much modification. while radial design does seem to be the most popular way to go, i think a great potential still exists with the induction conversion. if you are going to make coils, buy magnets, epoxys and other materials anyways, why not consider an induction conversion. you have a very strong frame, the best in lamination material, great bearing arrangment and a very small air gap that others are always trying to achieve in radial design. induction motor air gap is often in the .020-.030 inch range.  i do give great credit to everyones efforts on the radial design however. my personal preference is the induction motor. what ever your choice, have fun.

zubbly

[ Parent ]



Re: GARBOGEN CONVERSION (none / 0) (#5)
by Reno on Tue Nov 04, 2003 at 06:48:32 AM MST

Hey Jerry
No joking
A friend bought a garbage disposal at Home Depot
and it had a 2HP motor on it so you just might get lucky.
Unfortuantely it also came with a 7 year warranty.

[ Parent ]


Re: GARBOGEN CONVERSION (none / 0) (#6)
by Jerry on Tue Nov 04, 2003 at 10:50:56 AM MST

Hi Reno

That was a big one. At 120 volts should have been 20 amps? Sounds like a comercial unit. If so its most likely a 240 volt motor.

Maybe in 7 years he can build a wind genny? I did find a nice 3/4 HP 1725 RPM motor with bearings at Harbor Freight for $59.95. This motor it rated 14 amps at 115 volts.
The 1 HP garbage disposal motors a rated 10 amps.

If you can't find a good used motor Harbor Freight has good prices on there well built chinese motors.

Building a 1000 watt wind genny your self for $100 is a good fealing.

                            JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page


[ Parent ]



Re: GARBOGEN CONVERSION (none / 0) (#7)
by troy on Sat Nov 08, 2003 at 02:12:50 PM MST

The only disadvantage I can think of in using aluminum vs copper in the induction motor conversion, is that aluminum wire has slightly more resistance.  So if I had to choose, I'd pick copper, but I think no big deal either way.

Best regards,

troy

[ Parent ]



GARBOGEN CONVERSION | 7 comments (7 topical)
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