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Lightning strikes again


By reecko, Section Homebrewed Electricity
Posted on Fri Sep 19th, 2003 at 08:22:25 AM MST
inverter help

My inverter, a Trace SW 4048 just took its third ground hit from lightning and I'm at wits end.  We have lightning protection on both the ac and dc sides but those aren't being disturbed.  I can't keep calling my insurance company everytime I hear thunder.  Does anyone have any suggestions.
Need help,
Reecko
Lightning strikes again | 10 comments (10 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Lightning strikes again (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by sh123469 (sh123469 at yahoo dot com) on Fri Sep 17th, 2004 at 08:52:40 PM MST
(User Info)

Try surge protection as well as lightning protection especially on the AC side.

Wiring between buildings is a bad idea.  During periods of uneven static charge such as thunderstorms, the static charges will equalize between the buildings using the path of least resistance.  This is usually your wiring.  I have seen several instances of this happening with computer networks that were stretched between the main building and a small shipping/receiving building.

Our solution as recommended by electricians and telephone techs for this was fiber optics.  I know this won't work to carry power.  But, the better the surge protection on the AC side, the better off you will be.  

Static charge equalization could be happening on the long AC runs, as with a 2 story house as well especially with a nearby strike.




Re: Lightning strikes again (none / 0) (#1)
by jubalearly on Fri Sep 19th, 2003 at 09:21:43 AM MST
(User Info)

        What kind of lightning protection do you have? Whatever it is you can probably improve your protection considerably. Do you have a lightning rod on the roof? I'll have to dig around but I had a couple of good references for lightning protection companies that had a great deal of information on the internet. Try a search on google. You may need several properly installed lightning rods.



Re: Lightning strikes again (none / 0) (#3)
by reecko on Fri Sep 19th, 2003 at 11:38:21 AM MST
(User Info)

But will installing a lightning rod on the roof keep me from getting strikes that are coming up my ground line?  If we get a strike close by it is coming up the ground from what we can tell.
Reecko

[ Parent ]


Re: Lightning strikes again (none / 0) (#8)
by jubalearly on Mon Sep 22nd, 2003 at 01:25:31 PM MST
(User Info)

   All lightning comes from the ground up - that's the source of the electrons. Actually there is an initial flow from the cloud that establishes the channel. I think most lightning gets into the equipment from the AC lines so unplugging it should help. Unless you need to use it during a storm.
   Take a look here:

http://www.lightning.org/protect.htm

http://www.harger.com/

[ Parent ]



Re: Lightning strikes again (none / 0) (#2)
by bob golding (photoman290 at yahoo dot com) on Fri Sep 19th, 2003 at 11:37:42 AM MST
(User Info)

could try winding a coil of thickish wire around the leads about 5 turns and grounding one end. this will take out the HF spikes and still appear transparant to the inverter. dont know if it will work  with inverters works fine for H.F antennas.

keep having fun

bob



Re: Lightning strikes again (none / 0) (#4)
by wooferhound (tim((NoSpamAt))wooferhound.com) on Fri Sep 19th, 2003 at 12:22:53 PM MST
(User Info) http://wooferhound.com

I use Varisters.

A varister is something like a Zener diode except it works on AC current as well. When the voltage goes up to the rated voltage of the varister it becomes almost a dead short and loads down the overvoltage. The normal 120vac line is a sine wave with the peaks at about 170 volts so you will need a varister rated at 175 or 180 volts, very common at RadioShack. While the peaks are 170 volts, the RMS average is 120 volts. If you wanna use one on the phone line you need a varister rated at 90 volts to accommodate the ring voltage which is much higher than the talking voltage.

 I have them all over the place: Circuit breaker box, Extension cords, box on house where phone wire comes in, computer power distribution. When properly done you will use 3 varisters for each AC Line. One will go between the 3 wires of the line...
 Hot - Neutral
 Neutral - Ground
 Ground - Hot
This forms a little circle of varisters which will short out the voltage spikes, no matter which lead of the AC line that they come in on. I have read where, if you parallel 2 or more together, that the protection goes up by a factor bigger than the total number of varisters that were used.
-- W o o f



Re: Lightning strikes again (none / 0) (#5)
by wooferhound (tim((NoSpamAt))wooferhound.com) on Fri Sep 19th, 2003 at 01:16:55 PM MST
(User Info) http://wooferhound.com

Heres more information than you wanted about Surge protection using Metal Oxide Varistors or MOVs...

http://www.powerdesigners.com/InfoWeb/design_center/Appnotes_Archive/an9204.pdf

http://powerelectronics.com/ar/power_varistors_ideal_solution/

http://www.fujisemiconductor.com/test_web/mov/

http://www.murata.com/emc/knowhow/pdfs/te04ea-1/31to32e.pdf

http://www.djsociety.org/MOV.HTM

 and some cool pictures of MOVs that have blowen up or caught fire
http://www.djsociety.org/Surge_1.htm
.

-- W o o f
[ Parent ]



Re: Lightning strikes again (none / 0) (#6)
by DanB (danb@*no spam*otherpower.com) on Sat Sep 20th, 2003 at 09:29:56 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.otherpower.com/

Rough...
There have been 3 inverters killed here and a few more in the neighborhood.

This sounds tedious, but now days... when I suspect lightning when Im gone, or if it gets near - I simply unhook the inverter.  The most important part to unhook I think is the AC side.

Most inverters that have died up here are killed not by a direct strike - it could be some distance!  But most of the fried inverters had long AC lines plugged into them, like... 2 story houses, or places with outside shops and lines running to those.  The long AC line I think is dangerous... a near strike will induce a voltage in in the line - enough to fry the inveter!  Especially dangerous are lines in the air - the first one that died here was hooked up to an outbuilding via a powerline running through the air on insulators.  Better is to bury the line. - at least, thats my "theory"!

Knock on wood...  but I've had no problems since I started unhooking the AC side of my inverter in storms.  Perhaps time will tell!



Re: Lightning strikes again (none / 0) (#7)
by wooferhound (tim((NoSpamAt))wooferhound.com) on Sun Sep 21st, 2003 at 08:52:40 PM MST
(User Info) http://wooferhound.com

Have you ever tried MOV lightning protection?
The things will soak 10,000 amps before exploding
still cheaper than an inverter...

-- W o o f
[ Parent ]


Re: Lightning strikes again (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by Sundog on Fri Aug 10th, 2007 at 07:45:17 AM MST
(User Info)

It's DAMN important that MOV's have "their personal space", and that they're not mounted near anything flammable.  

I have purposely tested MOV's to destruction using a capacitive discharge setup, and the results can be spectacular.  

When hit by massive (22K amps), they simply go "BOOM!", and vaporize in a foul-smelling cloud of smoke that deposits nastiness on anything around the MOV.  

But the real danger is a sustained overvoltage with moderate current behind it.  A MOV simply dissipates the energy as heat.  They'll only take so much heat before they smoke, and then flame.  They CAN and DO present a very real fire risk.  

So, if you're going to use MOVs,

#1.  Use a metal enclosure that is mounted to a non-combustible surface, or at the least, kept a few inches from anything flammable.  This enclosure should not be airtight.  You need to smell the reek and see the smoke.  I prefer to mount my "added" protection in a small metal project box on a homemade PCB (sharpie on copper clad board, etch, drill, populate), and connect it to the original PCB or outlet with wires. Saves on mess when they die.

#2.  Don't pack other components around MOV's.  They leave a very nasty residue when they die, and can explode violently.  It's much easier to clean and replace a relatively uncluttered PCB around the MOV.  

#3.  Replace them every 2 years, 5 years at the maximum!   These wear out as they do their job, and once they die, they offer no protection.  And they look "perfect" right up until they explode.  

#4.  Don't trust the "protection" LED's or neon lamps in surge suppressors.  They lie.  If in doubt, throw it away and buy another one.  Surge suppressor = $10+ (for a quality one).  The little woman missing her favorite show because the faulty surge suppressor let the TV blow up.... Infinitely expensive.  

[ Parent ]



Lightning strikes again | 10 comments (10 topical, 0 editorial)
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