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PM DC Motor Windmill Help
By joelcox2007, Section Homebrewed Electricity Posted on Tue Jan 13, 2004 at 06:19:23 PM MST
I'm looking to build a simple wind generator

I'm looking to build a simple wind generator. I need it to put out 12DC and about 150 watts. What would be the easiest way to do this? A PM DC motor or another way? I have been looking at PM DC motors and they aren't bad priced. I don't understand how to convert them to make electricity not use it. I will be using the windmill to collect data for my biology project. Thank You Joel Cox

PM DC Motor Windmill Help | 15 comments (15 topical)

Re: PM DC Motor Windmill Help (none / 0) (#1)
by Homebrewed12vdc on Tue Jan 13, 2004 at 08:41:14 PM MST

A 40 volt dc pm tape drive motor well do this fine. You use a blocking diode on the postive wireto stop the battery from turning the motor that all there is to it. Look up the post on the pvc blades they work good on these little motors and are cheap and easy to make. Good luck and hope you continue to do more with ti after your science project is done. If you look up 40v dc motor on ebay you can find these cheaper than you well find them listed under wind generator on Ebay.com. There was a guy who had made a nice mounting plate for these tape drive motors and had them list on ebay under wind generator. I think they where going for about $5. 4inch muffler clamps work good on these to to hold them to a piece of C-channel iron. Most big hardware stores sell a shaft couple that well slide on the shaft with a set screw with a threaded bolt end on the oppisite end to make attaching a hub for blades real easily. I found a piece of angle iron and 58 cdx plywood works good for builing a tail for it. Well I guees that should answer your ?. otherpower sells the blocking diode you well need.

Re: PM DC Motor Windmill Help (none / 0) (#2)
by billf on Tue Jan 13, 2004 at 08:46:48 PM MST

You can do a search on this site for "servo motor" that should pull up a few posts. I put one up a few weeks ago (99vdc) with three hornet blades which (the motor) has worked well. The hornet blades on the other hand ended up with the blade tips broke off. Cheap crap. Just be sure to get it up in the air at least 30 feet or more to catch the good winds.

Re: PM DC Motor Windmill Help (none / 0) (#3)
by zbotrobot on Wed Jan 14, 2004 at 02:53:32 AM MST

Please look at the files posted on my website:

http://www.glass-kaleidoscope.com/SGK_files/solar/blades.jpg

http://www.glass-kaleidoscope.com/SGK_files/solar/sideofhub.jpg

http://www.glass-kaleidoscope.com/SGK_files/solar/coresout.jpg

These are easy to create with 8" pvc pipes (instructions shown on jpg)and create 10 blades from a 4" section. They are aerodynamic and not some off configuration FOR TEN (checked correctly with warlock.au blade calulator program). The hub image is of 2x4's sandwiched between plywood, and make hub in two halves to align bearing (it is difficult to drill exactly strait to create an exact wobbleless hole, recommend welding a car part or something. 360 divided by ten is 36 degrees. Go look:) Good luck.

Those pictures: (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous Hero on Wed Jan 14, 2004 at 08:02:01 AM MST

Heres the pictures from that comment:

This bottom one I couldn't get to display at all:

[ Parent ]

Re: PM DC Motor Windmill Help (none / 0) (#4)
by zbotrobot on Wed Jan 14, 2004 at 03:28:10 AM MST

I forgot to mention that the section used is 4" and then the tips are cut as shown in blades.jpg the first picture of my first reply to this post (sorry coresout.jpg doent load?) SO at 13.5 cm (times 5)(maybe measure for 5 yourself, but it is about 13.5 cm, and fine tuned by eye) AND THEN reversed (from the other end of the 4" tube) such that you use a "zig-zag" to use up all the space of the tube - then cut off the tips. A reciprocating saw actually meltedish the cuts and it was very easy. The cut (blade edge) can be sharpened with a file or something on the outside surface making a wing counting more on the outer perimiter of the blade span near the tip. The picture shows two blades and as if 1 measurement section were cut in half, so you can see the reversal or zig-zag and they all go the same direction too. The trailing edge is the backside. This 10 design would be good in slow or light wind catching a large area. they look crumby in the picture but from other angles if you held one and looked at it you can see how its aerodynamic. I got got some motors from surpluscenter.com and there was a kick ass 298 rpm 1/4 horsepower permanant magnet motor (no gears inside - yes, 298rpm at 24 volts) Nice housing of motor no holes or anything and it would be driven by this blade. It was 68.00 including shipping (look under electric>DC motors Bi or both directional) If it doesnt link up another windmill to create combined the voltage up and have another windmill. I would recommend that you make 4 windmills so that very light wind will not be dissappointing. Getting a motor is getting both wire and magnets and a fancy 3 pahes or whatever, but you would eventually need to replace the brushes - not too hard. A tip the servo motors are good but only get the high 99 volt or 70 and forget about the 30-40 volt ones AND only get the kind that are about 600 rpm not the ones that are about 1500rpm. OK have fun

Re: PM DC Motor Windmill Help (none / 0) (#6)
by joelcox2007 on Wed Jan 14, 2004 at 09:52:43 AM MST

I was looking to use a Vertical Axis Wind Turbine. What is more efficent Vertical or Horizontal. I have never built a turbine before so please be helpful. Is this a good PM DC motor http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2004011410344557&item=10-1519-A&catname=electric. 24VDC at 194rpm 13amps

Joel Cox
Blue Vally High School

Re: PM DC Motor Windmill Help (none / 0) (#7)
by Homebrewed12vdc on Wed Jan 14, 2004 at 07:53:13 PM MST

That motor mite work for the job, but I would still go with something like this http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2588605920&category=42920 or this http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2588820500&category=42920. A savinous rotor is easy to build but poor on rpms, stick with a horizontal machine with a 3 blade.

[ Parent ]

Re: PM DC Motor Windmill Help (none / 0) (#8)
by Jerry on Thu Jan 15, 2004 at 11:48:16 AM MST

My 2 cents worth . Don't forget the plastic Jerry blades if building your own won't work for you. There only $10 each and with Mike mods 2 of these blades have done 364 watts on a 50v Ametek TDM. JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: PM DC Motor Windmill Help (none / 0) (#9)
by zbotrobot on Thu Jan 15, 2004 at 08:17:37 PM MST

yes its 194, not 298 rpm, sorry. Its 1/4 horsepower near the edge of possible parameters for bigness in this case. Buts its good. They have a 99 volt motor (1/10th horsepower?)at 500 to 600 rpm but I dont know what the catalog # is, (must have deleted it) its under servo motors in the 2003 catalog if you CALL at 39.00 and 19 pounds. Personally I am planning to get 4 of those shortly. With power you get whats available in the force (wind force) not what the generator itself is fully capable of. For example you could use a tiny motor with a lot of gears or what have you and make a 100 watt lightbulb glow a bit, or you could take a great big motor that would turn slower in the same wind and make a 100 watt bulb glow and get red. Theres now way around it no matter what you do because the more the generator puts out the more force is required to turn the generator. So its a balance. Unfortunantly to find that balance you will have to do some experimenting. What will work for certain is a backup plan of planning to make more than 1, this way you will end up with the watts that you need given your local site and budget. The most important thing is that the motor has to be higher voltage and lower speed to avoid the dissapintment of finding that it is not creating enough electricity to charge at least a 12 volt battery, so even if the watts are low the voltage is enough. The blades need only to work well, not be 100 percent effecient. And also, to buy the blades may be just a little more expensive than the cost of new pvc pipe - and have known alignments for the hub - which is a pain in the ass to get aligned exact enough. (I made it in two parts so that front and back could be slid against itself into a true wobbleless squared position and then bolted in place after it was measured manually.) It might be a good idea to rest the blades on a bearing seperate from the motors own bearing for durability. The more you do little pretests and research and stuff the less likely it will fail to be as you wish.

Re: PM DC Motor Windmill Help (none / 0) (#12)
by converseur on Sat Jan 31, 2004 at 07:14:43 PM MST

l have an eye on this ametek motor too. But what we need to know is the loaded amps.
If it only puts out .58A@99V, thats only 57W and that number is not much.
But if it were say 10A@99V, that is 990W -- thats a lot better. The first of us who get the loaded amps numbers let it know. What is the best way get the voltage down to the 24v or 48V battery bank?

[ Parent ]

Re: PM DC Motor Windmill Help (none / 0) (#13)
by converseur on Mon Feb 02, 2004 at 02:47:46 PM MST

l talked with a representative today and he told me that he has no way to tell me what was the loaded amps. l sure would appreciate if someone that has made a test on this motor could shed light on that.

Richard

[ Parent ]

Re: PM DC Motor Windmill Help (none / 0) (#14)
by Seth on Wed Feb 04, 2004 at 04:10:41 PM MST

or its max current draw durring rated opperation.....

BTY .... i did post more in reply to the 99VTDM from a few days ago.
Trying to move my solar pannels is fun.
[ Parent ]

Re: PM DC Motor Windmill Help (none / 0) (#15)
by Seth on Wed Feb 04, 2004 at 04:13:49 PM MST

if its specs are .58A@99V then thats all she'll do....

this looked interesting..........
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2593038208&category=26226

and this looked interesting too ... brushless ie, no brushes to burn out.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2592957014&category=42894
Trying to move my solar pannels is fun.
[ Parent ]

Re: PM DC Motor Windmill Help (none / 0) (#10)
by joelcox2007 on Fri Jan 16, 2004 at 06:40:10 PM MST

Here is the 99volt motor I think that you were talking about. http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2004011410344557&item=10-1840&catname=electric I will likely use this but don't have an idea on what to use for the blades. I like the PVC blades.

Re: PM DC Motor Windmill Help (none / 0) (#11)
by zbotrobot on Wed Jan 21, 2004 at 11:15:11 PM MST

Yes, thats it surplus center ships fast too, took about 6 days. The ten blades have a lot of surface area, and importantly are not "un-aerodynamic" that is for all ten used they aproximate an areodynamic angle. I wil have mine up in a few days. I am putting on a tree, attached to a tree, higher than nearby trees. I think that it will be more effective overall than other designs because it is designed to take advantage of any wind - hopefully it will endure very strong wind. If you have a large battery bank it will not overcharge before you can decide it is full and disconnect it, otherwise some steps should be taken to avoid overcharge. You can get some from a service center for semi trucks or automotive fleet center, if you explain to the shop manager its for a school project or what have you. If they read 12 volts they are good, if they ever or tend to read 10 volts they will drag the other batteries down with them so those put in the recycling bin. Test them with a voltmeter simultainiously attached to a 12 volt light before you put them in car or whatever. Try and get 20 or more if you can for free somewhere. Use heavy wire crimped with pliers (or spend on real connectors, which you dont really need) and use a fuse and be careful as hell as it can be really bad, cause fires and stuff if you dont take reasonable cautions. The wooden hub was made in two parts, because a small variation from pefect squaredness of the hole for the shaft will result in a greater magnitude of wobble farther out as if amplified. A drill press would be helpful, or just use a part from some machine and get a few cuts and welds done on it. The blade calculator program for windowsOS is at http://warlock.com.au/bladecalc.htm

PM DC Motor Windmill Help | 15 comments (15 topical)

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