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Buried tubing for air conditioning.


By joe4324, Section Remote Living
Posted on Wed Jan 14th, 2004 at 07:28:09 AM MST
150-200ft of tubing 4ft+ deep,  using a small fan to pull air through to cool a home.

I know this has been done before, hopefully some of you have done this yourself and can offer input.   My goal here is to provide all the cooling required in the summer time for the home I'm hoping to begin building this spring.  So its crunch time now as I put the final touches on my floor plan and start REALLY figuring out how I'm going to build it.

Here is a link to some more info and a simple diagram I drew up.  You can post here or there.

http://www.ecoforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26

Buried tubing for air conditioning. | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Buried tubing for air conditioning. (none / 0) (#1)
by cevonk (cevonk(atsignhere)aol.com) on Wed Jan 14th, 2004 at 08:03:58 AM MST
(User Info)

I have looked into this in the past, and found some research on it on the net.  One paper I recall from India experimented with tubing that was 50 meters long (150-ish ft.), 10 cm (4 in.) in diameter, and buried 2 meters (6.5-ish ft.) deep.  The intake air was very hot (around 100F) and the exit air was within a couple of degrees above ground temperature at depth (around 70F).  Most of the cooling effects were recorded in the first 25 meters of the air's underground travel, and only about an additional 2F temperature drop was recorded in the last 25 meters of the air's underground travel.  Narrower diameter tubing (4 in. vs. 6 or 8 in.) is more effective because it has a greater surface area per volume of air drawn through the pipes.  I recall that it was found effective to bury the tubes in groups of six or eight arranged in a stack two layers deep with roughly 6 inches of separation between the tubes, both veritically and horizontally.  Such a grouping arrangement also reduces digging expenses over individually laid tubes.

Location of the intake line can have an impact on the effectiveness of the system.  A line laid in ground that is well shaded during the summer will provide somewhat better cooling than a line laid in a sunny field.  The use of a deciduous shrubby cover crop over the line (and some area of land extending beyond the line to either side for a reasonable distance)would allow for shading during the summer, yet let the ground absorb some sun during the winter.  A line laid through a blackberry patch or vinyard or some such arable land would allow you to "energy-scavenge" the efforts of the plants through their shade production.

Air velocity in the Indian study was a surprise to me.  The air was moving through the 50 meter pipe at about 10 meters per second (IIRC).  I had thought that a much slower rate of travel would be necessary, but apparently not.

One side-effect of this method of cooling air is de-humidification, and this results in condensation within the underground tubes.  Such condensation can provide the humidity necessary for mildew and mold growth in the tubes.  Provision must be made to both drain the tubes (away from the house) and clean the tubes (via some kind of clean out port at the end of the tube.)  Odor and health concerns relating to the interior condition of the pipes are issues that must be successfully addressed in the operation of such a system.  (Of course, an effective method of pest exclusion must also be employed.)

I have read of one average sized home in a the middle latitudes of the USA that successfully used 3 6 inch diameter, 50 feet long tubes to keep internal temperatures well below 80F during the summer time.  I would think that 6 4 inch diameter tubes of longer length (75 to 100 ft.) might be more effective.

In addition to cooling your home, such a system could be utilized to pre-heat air coming into the home in the winter.  Ground temperature remains (generally) 55-65F, and outside cold air could be raised to this temperature prior to being brought into the house.  Passing the incoming 55-65F air through some kind of heat exchanger through which the exiting air is exhausted would allow for the recapture of some of the heat from the exiting air, further heating the incoming air.

Primarily due to labor and excavation costs associated with installation, the cost of such a system is typically somewhat higher than the cost of a "traditional" (i.e. mass-market, limited longevity, planned obsolescence, energy intensive) cooling system.

Search the net for "earth tube cooling".  If you can find that Indian paper, it was very informative.  I'm sorry I cannot provide direct links.



Re: Buried tubing for air conditioning. (none / 0) (#2)
by newpath4com on Wed Jan 14th, 2004 at 08:39:42 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.newpath4.com/sitemap.htm

Friend I'm the author of www.newpath4.com . I have GOOD NEWS for you. I'm designing a kit for homes that is going to use a lot of different concepts. I'm hoping to have it in the marketplace somehow by the Fall-Winter of 2004. I hope you re-consider doing your home project because what I am working up is a kit that you can put a working solar engine (not a passive collecter!) up on a Saturday afternoon. I project the electrical energy from it will cut your power bill by 75%. Want more Good News?! Well, I'm going to try and keep the cost below $3,000.00 . I don't use hoses like you're saying but I do use the same principle in a way. It all has to do with energy transfer. This engine is going to be FANTASTIC, AND CHEAP. Sometime in 2005 we're going to send Saudi Arabia a new message. Not one of WAR but of WE DON'T NEED YOU ANY MORE. God the Future looks Bright. Please, all of you keep your bucks in your pockets for just a little while, because AskInventor Riley is Coming!



Re: Buried tubing for air conditioning. (none / 0) (#3)
by joe4324 on Wed Jan 14th, 2004 at 10:46:19 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.ecoforums.com

interesting website,  I'm glad to see it doesnt appare that your not trying to offer a "free lunch" because as much as I'd like they dont seem to exist very often, I think its that pesky physic's thing,  yeah newton I think he said it best. :)

Anyway I'm very interested in any input you might have to my ideas,  I'm trying to bring all the most proven and most logical technologies together to construct a home that is inexpensive to build, even less expensive to mantian and as close as possible to FREE, to heat and cool.

On my website you can see some other posts I've made talking about some of the things I'd like to do.

Unfortunately I'm looking to build this year if its even 'feasable' I cant handle paying conventional utilities the money I pay them, I also cant handle a mortgage on a house that 'requires' me to KEEP paying the utilities as much as I do.  So if you have any ideas I can incorporate into a design in the next month post away!

If not, then you'll have to catch me the second time around,  could be a few years from now when I'm ready for the 'next step' :)

[ Parent ]



Re: Buried tubing for air conditioning. (1.00 / 1) (#9)
by newpath4com on Sat Jan 17th, 2004 at 09:38:58 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.newpath4.com/sitemap.htm

Friend Joe, I have the answers to most of your questions and have in fact found companies and products you are asking about. I appologize for being so many days after your post. I've been really busy, had to write a new webpage (www.newpath4.com/IMANS_ActiveDesktop.html) and it gave me some flak for a day or so til I figured out how to designate the Menu maps separately! I just wrote a Full BIO on here. I am not used to posting on these boards so I don't know if you'll be able to read it, so I'll post my BIO here for all. And please read the 2 links on that new page, the ones called "The Answer" and "The Answer 2) and you will understand that I do have the answers you have inquired about. I need to get the specific information to post to you regarding your questions about building a new home. I have in fact found a company that has solved your problems, a line of already-designed homes that the walls are made of a new material that isn't just the walls... IT IS THE INSULATION! It's very quiet too, and reduces electical usage dramatically. I will try to post that information here soon. Also, for the many of you who are diabetic or knows one with that, I've found a company that has a product called BETAFAST GXR that has as main ingredient a mitacle drug made from the roots of a tree in India that seems to be giving people a NEW LIFE. Understand, not being diabetic myself I have not tried it. Check it out here -www.informulab.com . I don't get any commission on that but it looks promising and I read all the literature. It has been used in India for many generations, but this company has put it into a TIMED-RELEASE PILL and they claim it is close to a miracle for diabetics! They're so confident that til the end of January (31) they are offering a free small bottle with a full bottle AND the price is like I dunno $15.00 a bottle anyway!!!

Here's the BIO and I hope fieldlines does not truncate my post:

I've had a few good ideas over the years(15). Ways to do this & that. It's all on my websites. www.askinventor.com was the first, going online 3/12/03. I actually thought I was through writing when I finished it. But then in July I was looking into steam, came across the LN2000 nitrogen-powered car! It took me about 2 1/2 days of looking at it, analyzing the overall assumptions they made, asking myself where th hell did they make a mistake? Then I suddenly realized one Sat. morning about 3:30am, that the mistake they made was trying to get nitrogen to do what gasoline does! There were trying to make nitrogen PLAY BY GASOLINE's RULES! Which was of course not logical. So I started looking at Steam and it dawned on me, you know, that the nitrogen was being decompressed of its power inline BEFORE IT GOT INTO THE ENGINE! The rest is on my webpages. Basically, the nitrogen needed a catalyst that would draw it into instantaneous decompression. THAT's WHERE THE RAW POWER IS! Steam. Water. Water is death to gasoline, but Steam is an ENERGY TRANSPORT MEDIUM DIRECTLY INTO THE CYLINDER. And the nitrogen needed some balance otherwise it would reduce an engine to 300 deg. below zero in about 3 or 4 revolutions. That was why the Univ. of Wash. was decompressing it before sending into engine, and friends, that's why it wouldn't get over 30 MPH! By adding Steam I've done away with the economizer they lifted from steam locomotives, and done away with ANY need for a radiator to warm the nitrogen! hehehe It's beautiful, isn't it? (A lot better looking than its inventor I tell you. Whew! I'll NEVER get a date if I don't stop that guy from spreading that picture around...) Actually friends, that picture was taken by my computer cam in 2001, a year before I realized that a medicine I had been prescribed FOR THE LAST 13 YEARS had been poisoning me! In 2002 my arm, hand started shaking, neck muscle jerking, my eyes twitched so bad my eye doctor sent me for a head scan before he would write a new prescription!, and I had tinnitus, all on the right side! So I started analyzing after I had a memory blackout while driving, and reached the conclusion that all my problems had a commonality to them. They were all involving the soft tissues in my head, my brain! And it was then I quit the Lithium, realizing that it was controlling my bipolar by KILLING ME, DESTROYING THE SOFT TISSUES, MY BRAIN... So yes, I do indeed look a wreck and I display that photo proudly to show all what these psychoactive drugs do to people. In fact, on my website I have 3 pages devoted to depression and what is causing Americans to have so many mental problems. By figuring out what was happening before they buried me, I in fact diagnosed everyone in America having problems of these natures. I even solved the question of what th hell causes Panic Attacks! You won't read it in your doctor's office, but your children and wives can read it on my website. It has been a tremendous roller coaster I was forced to ride, but the ends did justify the means even if the means was a criminal assault on a human being - me- by a legal/lethal drug! I know by now many of you reading this know SOMEONE taking psychoactive drugs, and all I can do is plead with you to let them know of my webpages before they suffer some of the permanent damage I still unfortunately have. My short term memory has been reduced to squat. But thanks to some really MIRACLE THERAPY NUTRITION PRODUCTS that I've searched out and found I'm now losing weight, getting lighter, feeling better. In fact right today I've achieved a return to what I weighed in 1975! I hope you all come to my website over at least the next couple of months because I'm going to put together some nutritional products/offers so I can fund my 2004 project of putting together this unique Kit I've designed that will reduce your electric bills by 70-90% the same day it's popped out of the Kit. I am going to make it fully AUTOMATIC and Self-Regulating and it will work for you oh probably the rest of your natural lives. And I'm going to put these nutritional supplements online too to make for ding dang sure your natural life gets extended at least -least- 5 years. As I promise on one of my webpages, I'm going to show you how to feel SO GOOD that taking Dope would make you feel bad... You have children on dope, I'm going to show you how to give them their health back, not just back tho. You and they will raise yourselves higher and farther than any joint or sniff product. I promised it on my website, and I'm promising it here. And you can look at my picture and feel the pain I felt and lived with for 13 years. I assure you, I look and feel MUCH BETTER NOW. And the severe breathing blockage I had in my chest from having been hit by a 1,000 lb. bale in 1989 well, 3 nights ago the rib in my back where it connects into the vertebrae there well about 4am it just went thunk! and moved back into place! Friends, I can breathe free now and I no longer scowl like the big bad wolf! In fact, I can take a bigger, deeper, better breath now than when I was 15 years old. You can take that to the bank because I'm getting a home gym this week and by summer I'm going to be RIPPED 'n kick some ass out here at the pool. hehehehe I really need you guys to buy some of these products I'm bringing online soon because they will pay me small commissions that will INSURE that I have the money for finishing this Solar Engine Kit. BTW, I'm planning to put this kit together for less than $3,000.00 if at all possible, but if it does go higher I'll see about setting in place a method where the people who cannot afford it well yes they will. I'm not trying to soak anyone; I'm going to show you and give you the means to MAGNIFY YOUR LIFE AND MAGNIFY YOUR WALLETS AND MAGNIFY THIS GOOD OL' PLANET. That's the Promise I've made to my God, myself, and every one of you. You might ask WHY? Why would this guy who looks like a street beggar (I know, I'm brutally honest too) why would I do all these things?? Well, I've been a Christian since I accepted Christ in my heart at 3 years of age. The reason many of you can't see God is you're so busy playing Satan's game the way he wants it. He wants you to be SO BUSY trying to stay warm, healthy, sick, and paying electric bills while choking on the air that you won't feel inclined to believe theere is a God. He wants you to never have time -or feel good enough- to sit down in the afternoon and read God's Word. So as part of my ministry and trying to change that, God has allowed me to survive many hardships to get where I am today. The Bible says God never gives up; in His Image then I have never given up either. And don't think it hasn't occurred to me because it has, many times. Many men in my immediate family gave in and killed themselves. My childhood saw it. And now due to God's Grace and help, I have solved the riddles that have plagued Mankind and prevented us in so many ways. Many people will oppose me. My Kit will reduce oil companies unless they choose to get onboard with me, Detroit as well. They're ignoring me now. They think I'll go away. hehehe That isn't likely. When I sink my teeth I don't come back til I get what I want. And I'm sick and tired of being told to CONSERVE when we are standing on a Planet that is a cotton-picki' PARADISE OF PLENTY THAT GOD GAVE ADAM. The Paradise hasn't left; it's still here. We are ruining it because we haven't had a GAME PLAN. But now we do. My new page is www.newpath4.com/IMANS_ActiveDesktop.com and from there you can quickly access my most important pages and find the answers you've been searching for. As I get these informations to the products I will be putting the links on that page. Hey friends, don't be a stranger. Not any more.

Woody Riley 1/17/2004

[ Parent ]



Re: Buried tubing for air conditioning. (none / 0) (#10)
by newpath4com on Fri Jan 30th, 2004 at 09:08:36 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.newpath4.com/sitemap.htm

Joe, I think the first thing a person should do is decide where they want to live, then start looking at the available possibilities. A home ideally should have a kind of "agreement" with its surroundings. Since I don't know your financial situation I can't advise you, but I have seen a number of people do the smart thing: Buy a cheap mobilehome to put on their nice piece of land, get enough paid on the land to where they can qualify for a new home mortgage. And THEN they live in the mobilehome while they build their home behind it! This of course requires a great deal of FORETHOUGHT because if you have your MH setup on the eventual new home site it's going to cost plenty to move the MH.

As far as electricity, and as I have e-mailed you but add here for the benefit of others, I have made a Promise to the Internet community, myself, and the World, that by the end of 2004 I plan to have a Kit developed that will generate home power, and I'm in hopes of making it do much more than that! Due to my money situation I can't promise I will have the ENTIRE PACKAGE finished in 2004. So I'm promising what I believe I can realistically deliver, a new kind of SOLAR ENGINE (www.newpath4.com/AAINDEX/paget6.htm); however, as I continue to perfect the design I will be making allowances in that design to add a small oxygen-generating greenhouse to it, and several other devices. Obviously I can't just say what this all-in-one package is going to have otherwise I'll never make any money at all as people with money will ace me, build it and market it and not give me a DIME.

I think you're a smart guy, getting out here and searching for ANSWERS. My suggestion to you would be to get a large writing pad and start putting down EVERY THING YOU WANT FROM A HOME and EVERY THING YOU WANT THAT HOME TO DO FOR YOU, AND EACH FAMILY MEMBER. After doing that you will have your Base Answer... You need then to start over from this Base and start constructing a SYNERGY of answers that will all ADD UP INTO THE ENERGY SOLUTION you want your Home to be!

In short, satisfy the needs of you & yours THEN figure ways to make the Home comply with the little tricks that will make it more self-sustaining. For instance, were I to start building a home now I would try to see where all available energies are being wasted. I would look into any energy system that would take the outbound waste and WRING IT FOR EVERY BIT OF ENERGY FIRST. If any heat comes OFF OF THAT, I'd TRY TO HARNESS THAT HEAT. HEAT MEANS WORK. MAKE YOUR HOME WORK FOR YOU. Whenever possible, make all of the systems work TOGETHER IN A SYNERGY, COMPLEMENTING EACH OTHER. I truly believe there is an abundance of power surrounding us; we just don't see it.

As an aside, IF you do come up with what you think is a truly wonderful assortment of complementing Systems, I would make a video of your processes, your tricks, and when you're finished you would have a Masterpiece that you could sell to the rest of us! At $10-$20.00 going rate on How-To Tapes, CD's, DVD's, you have a WIDE MARKET of people waiting & EAGER TO BUY! While I don't have a video camera, I do plan to make a videocam record of my work this year... but I'll probably include the tape WITH THE KIT as part of the overall package I'll be marketing.

In just 2 years time, Americans could be using approximately 5-10 million gallons less PER DAY and together in 2 year's time we could increase our tax base, our balance of debt, reduce our hospital time and sick days, JUST BY TAKING CONTROL OF OUR ENVIRONMENTS, OUR HOMES, OUR LIFE, OUR HEALTH, OUR ENERGY SOURCES... not by doing ONE SINGLE SOLUTION, BUT BY DEVELOPING LITTLE COMPLEMENTARY SOLUTIONS INTO A SYNERGISTIC POWER. That is what I am working on, and as far as I can tell a lot of other people are too. But there is ONE MAJOR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ME AND EVER'BODY ELSE: I'M NOT TRYING TO FLEECE ANYONE TO PAY FOR MY YEARLY TREK THROUGH THE BAHAMAS ON A CRUISE SHIP... MUCH AS GOD KNOWS MY 52 YEAR OLD ARTHRITIC BONES WOULD PROBABLY SHOUT IN APPLAUSE AT THE IDEA.

I HAVE WORKED FOR PEOPLE LIKE THAT WHO UNDERPAID ME SO THEIR BUTT COULD OGLE WAITTRESSES SOMEWHERE NEAR HAWAII. I DIDN'T LIKE IT FROM THEM, AND I'LL NOT DO IT TO ANYONE ELSE. BESIDES, THIS KIT I AM WORKING UP IS GOING TO TRANSFORM THE HOME INTO A HEALTH-ENCOURAGING POWERHOUSE. I WISH I COULD GO INTO SPECIFICS. WAL-MART WOULD LIKE THAT. And I apologize for using all these CAPS but I am excited about my particular VISION for our FUTURE.

I hope you have visited my website. I am the real article. Not saying anyone else is not, just that I am. I'm putting together an oxygen-cranking greenhouse; in fact, today I'm cranking up my website to the highest level so that I can offer a product I located being sold in Utah. I'm going to do the shopping cart thing and all, legal, and the few products I find are going to also be part of my Kit... so anyone buying the products I offer will simply be buying the individual pieces of the overall kit!

When I do get the Kit together, I will offer it as individual pieces so that anyone who already has an air cleaner in their home won't need to purchase another. Oops. Looks like I'm getting specific eh? hehehe I have already located a greenhouse supplier also, so during this year I'll be working with them for what I need for this kit. But... if I did fail to meet the deadline it would not particularly be the End of the World. I'm bipolar, a thinker, and I've had trouble meeting deadlines all my Life. But this time is DIFFERENT. I took myself off of all medication almost 2 years ago. Since then I have filed 3 patents. I've written many webpages across 3 websites. I write them, I maintain them, and my doctor is IN AWE. A bipolar person isn't supposed to have enough Energy to tie their own shoelaces some days.

So I never ask anyone to HAVE FAITH in me. I've let a lot of people down in my life, before I learned how to control & harness the power of being bipolar. Once I figured how to tap that power I've been shooting skyward like a rocket. The only thing I have asked ANYONE TO DO but only if they have plenty to share, is to contribute a little into my PayPal account on this page www.newpath4.com/AAINDEX/mirror.htm that would help me with purchasing some of these devices I need to integrate into this synergistic kit... so far in 9 months, not one dime has been contributed. I have however made this Promise, that anyone who can contribute will get a Kit first.

This kit will be made in such a way that a 7 YO could put together. If possible a lot of it will be snap together so long as I don't see a need to take apart later for ANY REASON. A family can take a Saturday afternoon and put this together. By the end of 2004, I plan to get at least 60-75% of my own electricity from this system. I don't think these apartments here would allow me to run their heat pump off of solar etc., but I will be doing the hot water and all my TV's and Computer systems, but especially the monitors. By the end of the year, I fully expect my energy system to be SAVING US THE EQUIVALENT OF MY COMBINED INTERNET AND TV CABLE SERVICES, ABOUT $70/MONTH ($840/YEAR). THE REAL VALUE THO ISN'T WHAT I CAN DO JUST FOR ME, BUT WHAT SUCH A SYSTEM WILL DO FOR OUR BALANCE OF PAYMENTS, NATIONAL DEBT, ECOLOGY... BOTH OUR PHYSICAL AND ECONOMIC HEALTH... but you know?, it's more than that. Those are Matters physical, and surely they are VERY important. But doing this will repair us on a mental and spiritual plain also. And plane. We are going to GROW UP and become full-fledged humans, proud, confident masters of our Universe. Building UP from our Home first. If and when each of our homes gets 50-90% off the national umbilicals that we are tethered to, dependent on, like some bunch of half-worthless APPENDAGES (USERS), WE WILL WALK TALL. WE WILL STAND ,SHOULDER TO SHOULDER BESIDE OUR GRANDPARENTS, COMPLETED HUMAN BEINGS WORTHY OF OUR PLACE IN THIS UNIVERSE.

If this does not come through me for whatever reason, it will still come. If others bring it they will charge you a lot more than I will and that will be TOO BAD, but it will come. Digging crude from the ground was the last century's future, not ours. Our future is very bright. However, to all this I would add an observation, and a bit of a warning: if EVERYONE used a windmill I believe the cumulative effect might change the weather. So I do not really push any wind machines even tho one of my patents was for a new Wind Engine, a reciprocating device shown on www.newpath4.com/AAINDEX/extension_2.htm for anyone wants to look at it. It reloads itself each time it reciprocates. I'm kind of proud of it and myself for seeing how to make it, but as far as building a bunch of them I'm not going to bother.

Sincerely, Woody Riley  Roanoke, VA

[ Parent ]



Re: Buried tubing for air conditioning. (none / 0) (#11)
by newpath4com on Fri Jan 30th, 2004 at 10:07:47 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.newpath4.com/sitemap.htm

The real Trick too Joe as you're probably well aware is that every Home that achieves SELF-SUFFICIENCY WITH ELECTRICITY and any other enhancement like that as I am aiming at will have a great deal more RE-SALE VALUE. The only thing that is lacking is a PLAN. Once someone like me hopefully puts together a PACKAGE KIT, I envision couples who move from home to home, install the kit, and sell the home to a profit. I could easily see people becoming quite wealthy doing that.

Sometimes you just have to take Life by the horns and SHAKE IT. If somebody doesn't have a job, MAKE YOUR OWN JOB. Working together Americans make a POWER UNIT. We have temporarily forgotten that.

If you've read ANY of my website material and philosophizing, you do know. You understand that I'm not just talking electricity, I'm talking about building us into a real Country from the INSIDE OUT.

In fact, just this past week I have developed a new system that helps people build their lung strength a minimum of 100%. So many people are sick from this flu epidemic but Joe, explain to me, WHY IS THAT?!  We've had flu bugs and other germs BEFORE, so why are they starting to KILL US?!  I KNOW.  IT's because we have become weak inside. Our lung strength has been lowered by pollution but it is MUCH MORE THAN JUST POLLUTION. I have discovered the way, the answer, to making someone build their lungs and ribcage muscles to rival a Fish, a mighty Shark.

Just last night I wrote the Complete Page that tells exactly how to do that. However, since no one and specifically NO COMPANY has seen fit to contribute into my PayPal, I'm being forced to withhold this so I can try to find a company and market it. I'm not trying to put a price on Health but the truth is that my disability check just doesn't help me pay for the things I need to finish my Home Kit. So I have to withhold this last BIGGY INVENTION to try and garner some funding.

It distresses me to have to do that, yet I know it is not my fault either! Our taxes paying for every manner of new space exploit and toys, ourr military keeps needing to add to their arsenal of toys so they can shred a human into more pieces faster, and nothing of this is helping anyone develop an energy package that would raise us above the swamp we now call our country. We need to raise ourselves up, and by doing that we all raise us ALL up! Cash flow is a part of that equation.

This last week I cranked my phone service up and today I'm cranking my website capability up. I'm stepping way out on a LIMB for someone getting ONE CHECK A MONTH. I'm walking out on this limb because I know what I'm doing is Right. And my son here working his first real job is helping me with his paycheck some because he knows that I have, over these past 2 years, gotten off of all psychoactive drugs that were actually HOLDING ME BACK, and he worked with me to get those 3 patents successfully passed; and he sees the Power that I have learned to harness. IF YOU HAVE READ MY PAGE:  www.newpath4.com/depression101.htm or www.newpath4.com/enhancedengines.htm then you know too. I am following not just one vision but in fact several.

And so long as I breathe I'm going to grab this country by the neck and drag them kicking & screaming into the future. If I have to accomplish that by SHAMING THEM I will do that too. If I, a high school graduate, know what's needed then by God the rest of you should be able to see what I'm seeing also! I'm not a college graduate; I don't know how to write Calculus; so I'm certainly not in a position to look down on ANYONE. And many, many people do talk on matters I can barely understand. I read Slashdot and other pages that keep me very, very humble. Beside many other people, my knowledge doesn't wet the inside of a thimble.

But I, like you and yours, we all have a Gift. I have found mine. I see synergy. Just like that new engine I figured out. I solved the nitrogen engine by doing what no other person involved was willing to do: I ate humble pie. And somehow I knew instinctively that the nitrogen engine was not a "failed engine"; it simply was not Complete. Once I saw that, I reverse engineered backwards til I saw that the engine solution needed for an additional energy. I reversed back far enough to where I could see the MISSING PART OF THE EQUATION. The rest is found here:  www.newpath4.com/steamedheatengine.html . If any of these urls of mine don't work since I do have a toothache and may misspell them, the main site list page:  www.newpath4.com/sitelist.htm or www.newpath4.com/IMANS_ActiveDesktop.html are my main portals into my webpages.

Well, I have to go now. I may return in another month or so. I have lots of fish to fry. I hope anyone reading this will copy and forward AT WILL in place of me trying to do it. I have a date to keep with a Promise. My writing phase is ending. Others will have to do that now. I have thrown the bread upon the water. Everything you all need, you have. Becoming a new American Conqueror is your charge. None of us can do it alone, but together we are strong, and tall, and mighty. 2 years. Just 2 years. In 2 years we can turn the river of glut headed out back into ourself, and magnify each other into the people we have always been... We just forgot who we were for awhile, that's all. And that is coming to an end.

[ Parent ]



Re: Buried tubing for air conditioning. (none / 0) (#4)
by Gordy on Thu Jan 15th, 2004 at 01:01:42 AM MST
(User Info)

I have consederd this also, But I will make it a closed system, in that both ends of the pipe will be in the house. I don't think it makes sence to cool all that hot odtside air coming into the system. This will also greatly reduce the condencation/ water buildup in the system.

I am also considering a closed loop water (instead of air) system, with a car radiator. Of coarse that will mean a few extras in the system.

So many projects, so little time.
Gordy



Re: Buried tubing for air conditioning. (none / 0) (#5)
by joe4324 on Thu Jan 15th, 2004 at 05:48:38 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.ecoforums.com

The idea behind a open loop system is to use the earth as a heatexchanger for the air that you naturally need to ventilate anyway.  Perhaps you can ventilate some other way and use a cloosed loop system (that wont condensate) and just temper the current air in the home?  Part of my design was almost a completely sealed structure to allow maximum effeciency,  infact that air tube was going to be the only ventalation the house would have besides manually operable windows and doors.

I'm curious know it know exactly the amount of condensation I might see in my climate,  our tempatures fluctate pretty rapidly,  we usually have a couple months in the summer were its fairly humid with temps in the 90's.   this would probably condensate for sure in the tubes.  so if it was an open system I would need a way to insure drainage.

Using a closed loop water system I think has several advantages and disadvantages.  The advantages as I see it are a system that will cost a fraction as much to put in.   you could use inexpensive pvc pipe, or buy a 100ft roll of copper tubing (way to go IMO)  I think you could get away with less total feet of the pipe too.  And if it wasnt less total linear fet it would still be much cheaper to put in because the pipe is so much smaller,  you could literally just dig a single hole and use a large coil.  this wouldnt require a trencher, it could be dug when the initial excavation is being done.

I'm starting to like this closed loop water idea,  the only part I dont like is the extra work required to move the air around that is now  cold, unless you ran it through the radiant floor system.  IF this is the case though why not use run a return to your wellhead and use the ground water? your already going to have a line ran and buried, its already got a pump (big one) The only thing I dont like about this keeping the cold on the floor, when you really what it at head/chest level (wich is why I had the cool air venting into the house) I actually planed on using the cold tap water anyway,  or at least having a return put in while I had my well dug just so I had the option later.  between cold water circulation, and earthtubes I see no reason any more "cooling" would be required,  heck, I bet that would cool even a normal conventional house with little need for help.  What I'm planning on building is super insulated from the elements.  I'm guessing I'm only going to need a few thousand BTU's to maintian the comfort I want.  of course I have no numbers to back it up.

As usually all this typing and speculation and I'm no closer to having a concrete idea of what I want to do!

[ Parent ]



Re: Buried tubing for air conditioning. (none / 0) (#7)
by Gordy on Thu Jan 15th, 2004 at 12:21:41 PM MST
(User Info)

If I read right you want to draw water from your well use it for cooling then return it to the well. This would create a puddle or bubble (if you will)of warm water around your well point. Something simmular was done here when heat pumps first became popular, water was brought up from one well used for cooling then pumped down a second well(at a distance from the first well). This practice is NO longer permitted here dew to concerns of contaminating the water supply. Another way to use well water for cooling was to dump the waste water into a creak or pond. This is NO longer allowed ether, for water consevation reasons. So you will want to check into your local laws, to keep out of trouble.

As to a post below for the open loop air system with a solar chiminy. The first one I saw plans for was desined for heating and cooling. It used a flat plate solar colector to heat the exaust air from the house (into the bottom of the collector). At the top of the colector was a large flap type valve to direct air flow up a chimny for cooling, or back into the house for heating. This system did not use a fan, but used thermosyphen to move the air.

Good luck,
Gordy

[ Parent ]



Re: Buried tubing for air conditioning. (none / 0) (#6)
by wooferhound (tim((NoSpamAt))wooferhound.com) on Thu Jan 15th, 2004 at 08:40:35 AM MST
(User Info) http://wooferhound.com

Here is a page I refer to when I'm thinking about alternitive forms of Air Conditioning.
Lots of links to simular information too.

http://techref.massmind.org/techref/other/spac.htm

This guy talks about exhausting the heated air from the house using a convection Chimney instead of a Fan.

}=- W o o f -={



Re: Buried tubing for air conditioning. (none / 0) (#8)
by mein on Fri Jan 16th, 2004 at 11:55:50 AM MST
(User Info)

Not that this is at the same level, but I've been toying with doing something on
a little smaller scale.  It would basically be a pre water heater/room cooler
at the same time.  I live in minnesota so I wanted to keep things inside the
house so I don't have to worry about things freezing up over the winter.
Anyway what I was thinking is adding a redirect valve on my water pipe going
into my water heater.  Durring the summer you turn the valve and the water
would first go up to the basement rafters and snake around for a bit before going
back into the hot water heater.  I was thinking of using poly tubing for the redirect.

Basically the idea stemed from 2 similar ideas.  Someone I think on this
board was using a tank outside the house to preheat water.  I also found
a site somewhere that was selling a product that had a 2-3 foot section of
drainpipe that you put in that had a copper tube wrapped around it, the idea
being that your drain water preheats the water before it goes into your water
heater.

I figure it shouldn't cost too much to do so I'm going to shop around
for good tubing and give it a try this spring.  Anyone have any opinions/ideas?



Buried tubing for air conditioning. | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 editorial)
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