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Energy from sound?


By stop4stuff, Section Homebrewed Electricity
Posted on Fri Jan 02, 2004 at 05:52:37 AM MST
a solution to urban green energy?

Happy New Year everyone.

My primary interest in whats happening on Fieldlines is to have a better understanding of motors,coils,generators,magnets and how they all work...
...my goal is to build a micro 5-way electronic compressed air actuator that I can use in conjunction Lego Mindstorms and Lego Pneumatics to control air powered devices on my Lego robot J5 (see. http://www.stop4stuff.com/lego/technic/mindstorms/new-j5/ for a build diary.)

Whilst browsing threads and absorbing input...
No-one seems to be discussing the extraction of electrical energy from sound.
...a microphone generates electricity.

Also I have read and understood the reasoning why linear alternators are inefficient...
...isn't a microphone a linear alternator?

speculation over with... try this...

1. obtain a car stereo speaker, the bigger the better.
2. attach an LED across the speaker terminals.
3. gently, but quickly tap the speaker cone

you should see the LED flash intermitantly (if it doesn't, swap the LED connections over)

Tapping on a steel coffee tin placed open end over the speaker also makes the LED light up.

I haven't a clue what voltages or currents are involved... but the LED lights up.

Sound can be focused, in the same manner as sunlight, onto the collector by means of reflectors... like the old fashioned 'ear trumpets' often seen in old black & white slapstick comedies (Charlie Chaplin, Laurel & Hardy, etc).
Nature can produce devices that mix sounds to a level of white noise... listen to a sea shell!


the 'ear trumpet' is a spun shape, a large inverted cone with a smaller inner inverted cone.

I understand a little about electronics, however I think that there would be a whole load of different frequency sounds (and ac voltage frequencies generated)...
...could the sound coming in be split by physical filters to seperate different frequency sound before it got to the collectors (microphones), or be used to create powerful harmonic frequencies?
...could the different frequency voltages be collected seperately and then converted to an average frequency before final smoothing out and frequency reduction?

Why could electricity generated from sound be useful?
...wind generators are good for sparsely populated areas... more space to put them up.
...the noisiest places are often places where it would be impossible to put up a wind generator.

and no I've not forgotton about solar power...
could the underside of a motorway (freeway) bridge be covered with solar panels?

Generating electricity from sound could be an addition to other green energy solutions, who know's maybe one day we'll have fence panels that provide power to white LED street lighting.

About transformers and sound...
a transformer hums...
it makes a noise...
Can it be vibraition that makes a transformer hum?
...a transformer has no moving parts to create the intertia to make it vibrate!
...so why does a transformer put out noise energy?

The trick with a sheet of aluminium and a neo magnet is cool... even near vertical the magnet creeps down the ali sheet.

sorry to go on.... first timer poster... fresh with enthusiam :)

p.s. love the hamster powered alternator on theotherpower.com... we tried something similar with Angel (my daughter's Syrian hamster) in a ball running on a Lego setup... friction vs hamster... friction won

Energy from sound? | 11 comments (11 topical)

Re: Energy from sound? (none / 0) (#1)
by Rich G on Fri Jan 02, 2004 at 07:23:50 AM MST

The ear is a very sensitive and broad range detector. I believe that the energy of the least sound detectable by the human ear is something like 10 to the minus 12th watts/meter squared. For those who are not comfortable with scientific notation that is .00000000001 watts spread over a one square meter area (if I got the zeros correct). That is, I think the reference level for sound Db comparison. At 100 Db hearing damage is a threat. This level of sound energy is still less than 1 watt/meter squared. You are absolutly right, of course, that sound can be coverted to electrical energy. As you observed, microphones do just that. I suspect that the reason that ambiant sound is not tapped as an energy source is the low energy density. I may have this all wrong. These days, I am not an expert in anything -- just check with my wife! The world is a fun place to explore! Rich



Re: Energy from sound? (none / 0) (#4)
by stop4stuff on Fri Jan 02, 2004 at 09:01:41 AM MST

hey Rich,
thanks for the input...
my father (a V E R Y serious person) once tried explaining Db's...
something like...
for every 1Db increase the noise level increases by a factor of 10
i also remember somewhere people melt at around 220 Db
I hear what ur saying about the low energy density of sound...
These days, appliances are smaller and use less energy.
I once owned a Radiogramme... a beautiful piece of 1950's furniture that had a record deck and a LW/MW/SW radio built into it, 240v (UK) mains only and soaked up loads of juice.
Now i have a mobile phone that can store+play 60+mins of MP3 music and recieve FM radio... the phone does the same job on much less power (and can be hooked up to an amp in car or home.) + i can talk to ppl too!
places like under motorway bridges get very loud, as well as airports...
sound may be low density energy... tap it and it's free energy for low powered devices :)

[ Parent ]


Re: Energy from sound? (none / 0) (#2)
by wooferhound on Fri Jan 02, 2004 at 08:03:35 AM MST

Sound does not contain very much power. In order to get power from a speaker you must move it machanicly like you were doing when you were tapping the speaker cone. I never hooked an LED up to a speaker, but I find it hard to believe an LED would light just from sound. Even if you could light the LED with sound, That is not very much power and you will want to run it through a Bridge Rectifier in so you can store the power in a battery. the bridge rectifier will pull the power down by 1.2 volts and you won't have anything left coming out.

I messed around with trying to get power from a speaker

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2003/10/11/204029/79

But I could never figure out how to get enough 1/2 inch motion to generate anything usable.

}=- W o o f -={



Re: Energy from sound? (none / 0) (#3)
by Harry Luubovv on Fri Jan 02, 2004 at 08:50:13 AM MST

Well now of course as you all know, that the day will come one day, that we could use sound as energy source. Just look back not very along ago, scientists got themselves killed trying to fly in the machines they built. Others laughed. Now everyone takes flying for a normal thing, noone says if it wis possible or not possible. Time is a funny thing ! Mankinds will advance in technologies until the world explodes oneday ! !

Happy New Year.

Luubovv.

[ Parent ]



Re: Energy from sound? (none / 0) (#6)
by stop4stuff on Fri Jan 02, 2004 at 09:19:06 AM MST

i checked out ur item...
i didn't find it b4
I then shouthed AARRGH into my speaker (bought the wife running and got a sore throat)... the LED gave no response.
I then tapped the speaker some and found ur right... it takes about 1/2 movement to light up the LED...
The coffe can didn't work 2nd time round :(
isn't learning fun!

[ Parent ]


Re: Energy from sound? (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by zowwie438 on Fri Aug 06, 2004 at 09:36:53 AM MST

Curious....

SPEAKER -> DIODE -> CAP -> DUMP CIRCUIT

I know the cap would take some time to charge... But if electric MOVES the speaker, then sounds vibrating the speaker would do the same in reverse.

The problem is the fact that the sound doesn't carry much energy.. And will not light up the LED.

My faucet may drip at home, and I dismiss it as a drip.   That is until someone leaves the plunger pulled up and then it's flooding all over the place. :(

So... using the sink concept.   Fill the capacitor with juice until a pretermined time in a known high noise env.   This should produce a steady supply of voltage over a period of time.

I don't think it will every amount to much... But you may be able to re-charge a single ni-cad battery over a months time if you live near the airport.

Good luck.

[ Parent ]



About transformers and sound (none / 0) (#5)
by Norm on Fri Jan 02, 2004 at 09:10:52 AM MST

  A transformer has moving parts....same as a guitar string, if something is humming its vibrating and if its vibrating ....whatever is vibrating is a moving part. Norm.
( :>) Norm


Re: About transformers and sound (none / 0) (#7)
by stop4stuff on Fri Jan 02, 2004 at 09:37:46 AM MST

thanks Norm, good input!
does that mean a transformer could be made much more efficient by stopping bits from moving and not lose energy through vibration?
does a transformer vibrate as a complete unit or are there internal parts that disipate energy by banging against each other?
so many questions have i...
need more good input...


[ Parent ]


Re: About transformers and sound (none / 0) (#8)
by Electric Ed on Fri Jan 02, 2004 at 10:01:40 AM MST

The sound is created by the core laminations vibrating.
Transformers are given "sound ratings" by the manufacturers, and quieter models cost more. The laminations have to be clamped together more securely.

Electric Ed

[ Parent ]



Re: Energy from sound? (none / 0) (#9)
by wooferhound on Fri Jan 02, 2004 at 12:40:19 PM MST

 Transformers buzz because the magnetic fields interact with the windings and the magnetic relationships between the wires that are next to each other in the winding. So the wires may all be attracting each other at one instant and then all repelling each other at another instant. And of course all of those magnetic forces are interacting with the iron core.

}=- W o o f -={



Re: Energy from sound? (none / 0) (#10)
by E man on Fri Jan 02, 2004 at 11:17:57 PM MST

Speaking of sound, check out this cool article:

http://www.memagazine.org/backissues/march98/features/sound/sound.html

MacroSonix Corp. (Tim Lucas) has built these oddly shaped vessels to concentrate sound energy to be used as compressors, particle seperators, and combustion [generator] devices. The devices don't "receive" energy from the ambient noise around us; instead, they are driven with a solenoid at about 400 - 500 cycles per second, and although they are only displaced about 100 microns the gas inside is accelerated to generate resonant sound waves that build into enormously powerful compression waves. The resulting compression waves can then be valved for various uses. These guys also ganged up with Los Alamos National Labs to do interesting work with Acoustic Stirlings, apparently lending a hand with a resonance chamber that could be used for liquifying gases particularly natural gas that would normally be tossed while drilling for oil.

Happy New Year Everyone!

I love this website just as much as the day I found it.

-Elliott Bell



Energy from sound? | 11 comments (11 topical)
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