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Kite/Hydrogen suspended portable generator


By LopeDogg, Section Wind
Posted on Sun Oct 10, 2004 at 01:01:26 PM MST
A toy we all should have! A kite that produces some portable power, on demand! (questions about aerodynamics stuff mainly)

Hi there green people
I'm new to the forum, been checking out some of the websites u guys have and i really like what you're doing... if i had land i would build a windmill, no question.
:)
After seeing the water turbine on otherpower.com that generates 2A from 3ft of water, and various other things you guys have built...
I have a strong desire to build a semi portable windmill which is lifted by a kite or with a hydrogen bag, and produces 12V somewhere in the ballpark of 10A.
It would be awesome.

Ive done some searching on this forum and on google for that type of thing, and cant find any documentation of someone actually building one and testing it.

After some thinking i'm not so keen on the hydrogen idea, it takes a lot of energy to generate a cubic meter or so of hydrogen, and since the unit is meant to be portable anyway, one might aswell just go with a kite. (since u only need it to stay in the air [when the wind stops blowing] when its a permanent fixture)
and a bag of hydrogen is clumsy, leaks and is dangerous near flames. (the static problem could be overcome, and you could put some fire extinguisher powder in the bag too, the kind which absorbs oxygen)
I really would like to play with hydrogen a bit though, and build a nice KOH electrolyzer, any idea where to get nickel scrap?

without talking too much crap, id like to get back to the point.

i know a lot of u guys are pretty knowledgable when it comes to airfoils, hopefully you could give me some ideas as to what simple kite designs would provide the most lift, and be stable on a single string (not controllable).

I've looked up stuff on kite aerial photography, but couldn't really find any plans or anything where the guy said "this will lift x KG"
the kite does have to be stable enough not to crash the alternator into the ground as the wind gusts and fluctuates...
stuff that comes to mind are: simple foldable rigid frame kites, inflateable airfoil kites (hardly know what im talking about when i say that), and, some kind of wing which resembles what you would find on an aeroplane, with something to make it stable... a fin maybe? im no aerodynamics expert.

imagion taking your electric car out on a safari mission, when ur batteries are dead or when theres a nice wind, release your kite, set up your tent, chill out :)

im an expert stunt kite flyer, if that helps G

Kite/Hydrogen suspended portable generator | 5 comments (5 topical)

Re: Kite/Hydrogen suspended portable generator (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by zmoz on Sun Oct 10, 2004 at 01:33:57 PM MST

Something big enough to produce 10 amps is going to be very heavy...you'd have to have a REALLY big kite to lift it. Also, any blades used would have a negative effect on the kite's ability to fly.



Re: Kite/Hydrogen suspended portable generator (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by jimovonz on Sun Oct 10, 2004 at 02:01:08 PM MST

Hi there LopeDog,

I fly paragliders here in NZ. You can pick up a (well) used wing here for a couple of hundred dollars. Wings at the end of their useful life can be had for free. These wings will fly very well, however they are at the point where you would no longer take the risk of flying under them yourself. Such a wing would be perfect for testing a setup up like you are describing. My current wing is 33m2, over 7m long and is rated to lift up to 90Kg. Much larger wings are available that are designed for tandem passengers that can lift in excess of 200Kg. I have flowen an old wing of mine while tethered - much as you would a kite. You would have to figure out some sort of self correcting control mechanism to avoid a 'lock out' situation where the wing flys over in an arc forcefully into the ground (which is what it would tend to do on a single tether). You could simply suspended a turbine below the paraglider in much the same position as a pilot would usually occupy. A counter weight could be suspended below the turbine to keep it in the correct orientation and could be sized to allow the turbine to 'furl' at the appropriate loading.
Anyway, just an idea I had while reading your post. Maybe helpful, maybe not...



Re: Kite/Hydrogen suspended portable generator (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by sathigpen on Mon Oct 11, 2004 at 02:05:45 PM MST

I have been posting some related things on alt.energy.  Of course unless you have an incredibly reliable seal for the H2(potentially available) I would use the classic He in a Totex weather balloon pioneered by ham radio enthusiasts (http://www.eoss.org)... you could integrate these into a self folding lightweight turbines within the tethered kite system.   An onsite aquafuel system to break apart water via electrolysis and "dope" hydride tanks would be great for open ocean floatilla (kayak suspended) and remote land systems.

Hydrogen tree (subject to revision):  http://sthigpen.freeshell.org/images/hydrogen-tree.pdf

SA Thigpen * KL1FE * http://sthigpen.freeshell.org



Re: Kite/Hydrogen suspended portable generator (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by stop4stuff on Tue Oct 12, 2004 at 12:40:37 AM MST

here's a NASA site with kite lift and drag calculations...
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/kitedrag.html

and this UK site has some great info and software for foil kite design
http://www.foilmaker.co.uk/

paul



Re: Kite/Hydrogen suspended portable generator (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by XRay on Tue Oct 12, 2004 at 01:59:56 AM MST

See the site of the Dutch astronaut Wubbo Ockels and his LadderMill



Have fun :-)))
XRay
---------------------
You dont know how little you know.
till you know enought to know that you still know nothing



Kite/Hydrogen suspended portable generator | 5 comments (5 topical)
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