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Starting the Listeroid diesel
By DanB, Section Homebrewed Electricity Posted on Mon Oct 18th, 2004 at 08:23:59 AM MST
when it's really cold....

I'm certainly not wanting to spread bad or dangerous advice. It's been getting pretty cold up here at nights lately. When it's real cold (like 20 deg) - I can start the engine, but it takes a lot of cranking and leaves me totally 'wiped out'... I suspect if it got colder (which it will)... perhaps 0 deg, it would be impossible without either heating the intake, installing a glow plug.. or something like that.
My neighbor up the hill charges his batteries with a single cylender Volvo diesel hooked to a generator. His simply wont start below about 50 deg (my Listeroid starts on the 1st crank at 50 deg). He tells me that the 'easy' way is a little ether (starting fluid). Almost everyone else tells me thats 'crazy'... it could damage the engine, it could kick back.
At any rate, sometimes 1st thing in the morning I have pretty limited patience. We use the Lister to pump water into our cistern from a deep well (we've got a 240VAC well pump). It's pretty common, that when the girls wake up here we run out of water (they use lots first thing in the morning) and I have to start the generator (often times before my 1st cup of coffee).
For about 2 weeks now, I've followed Tim's advice and used just a 'touch' of ether. By 'touch' I mean... the very smallest amount that you can actually get out of the can - I spray it for a small fraction of a second. And.. so far, no matter how cold it is - it always starts on the first crank and it's never seemed the least bit inclined to kick back.
Perhaps I'm crazy... but it sure seems to work nicely!

Starting the Listeroid diesel | 29 comments (29 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by old55olds on Mon Oct 18th, 2004 at 09:11:16 AM MST
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Yes Dan they really do start good for a diesel. And yes just a whiff of either makes it much easier. As it gets a little colder here I will have my 12/2 in a heated building next door to my batteries. When it gets cold I will just leave mine run 24/7. Right now I am just building the the leanto. It would be interesting to see if one could install a glow plug in the head.
Ken

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by JW on Mon Oct 18th, 2004 at 09:38:48 AM MST
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Yes DanB,

The ethier will work in a pinch. One thing that can cause concern is that it will dry out the rings, if you do this in the long term, maybe not. If your cooling system/hot water tank, is warm she should fire right up, even if its cold outside "ie" 0*f. Another long term way of dealing with this, is a belt driven automotive starter connected to the flywheel. Just be careful the belt cant tie itself in a knot when the engine is running. The combination of keeping the engine block warm and electric start(compression from cranking will heat the cylinder as-well). My grand father, use to use a heater on the battery of his diesel, because it would get so cold winter time in Michigan, that the battery wouldnt put out full CrankingAmps, and that engine had glow plugs. By the way, lots of standby diesel gensets use preheaters on the cooling system, and a small circulation pump in parallel with the cooling circuit, this makes for the fastest possible start up from standby. If you do get into insolation on your holding tank, be-sure that a "dual action" safety valve is used. These are common on standard water heaters. Both pressure "and" temperature can open them. These are much safer to use than the pressure-only activation safety-pop valves. Do some reaseach on temperature activated safty valves, you'll see what Im talking about. And oh-ya, make sure you route the (potential)discharge(from safety valve) thru a metal line to a safe place. Hey theres the aspen tree :)

JW

[ Parent ]

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Mon Oct 18th, 2004 at 09:26:54 AM MST
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When my Yamaha diesel was refusing to start after being left idle for too long, my yamaha dealer and her authorized repairman used ether to attempt to get it going.

(It didn't work. But after they checked the compression, saw it was low, and recommended a rebuild, I suspected a dry oil ring and used a combo of WD40 and initial cranking to spread it, followed by ether for low-compression start. That got it going, and a little running freed up and lubricated the rings after which it was just fine. Except for the cooling system, which was a whole separate issue. B-( )

I wouldn't worry about kickback with that humungus flywheel. (You'll want to give it a really energetic spin, though, so if it fires too soon you'll still spin past top-dead-center and get running rather than pop, blow exhaust out the intake, and stall.)

The only concern I'd have about damage would be if you washed the oil off the cylinder and then cranked it futilely for half an hour (scoring the cylinder), or got so much ether in the cylinder that the piston came up on an incompressible fluid (damaging the piston, rod, pins, crank, and/or bearings). Diesels are tough, since they WORK by "knock"ing. IMHO you're not going to get any mixture of fuel, lube oil, ether, and air that could deliver enough detonation to harm them during a startup attempt.

Having said all that, a glow plug (or a block heater if you have power to spare and/or no way to install a glow plug) IS the right thing for starting a diesel at low temperatures. With a glow plug you just let it cook for the recommended time (on the order of a minute) and it will start right up.

In particular, if it gets REALLY cold you'll find the ether won't vaporize. Then you WOULD crank futilely and then give up and leave it with the oil washed off the cylinder to rust until after the cold snap is over. If this DOES happen, sparay it with a bit of WD40 and crank it to spread it around once you give up.

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by nobicus on Mon Oct 18th, 2004 at 09:48:29 AM MST
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Ancient diesel tractors and buses used to have a system called a kai gas tank. This was a small tank into which you pumped a little diesel. This was then heated by a small 12 volt immersion heater before attempting to start the engine. The first couple of minutes running was on the, now warm, diesel. This was the norm in winter. Look up the Fergusen either pre WWII or during the late 1940's. The flying club that I belong to has a 1948 Fergy, used for runway mowing, which still has the Kai gas tank system installed. I understand that the vintage tractor spares folk have this sort of thing still available very reasonably. The tractor handbooks can also still be had so you could retro-fit the system if you wanted.

[ Parent ]

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by Julio (j_andrade@cantv.net) on Mon Oct 18th, 2004 at 09:48:40 AM MST
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My brother-in-law was a mechanic for 40 years. He had a Lister. To him, starting it was no problem. He just used a small rag slightly wet with gasoline to cover part of the air intake of the machine and that was all. Just pull the rag once the machine gets going as gasoline runs it very fast but its vapors don't remain that long if you pull your rag quickly. Don't worry about the gasoline breaking down the machine because it will go fast for a few seconds. Just keep her well oiled. I myself had a boat with two diesel engines that I would not use for periods of up to 1 month. A small rag wet with gasoline at the air intake always did the trick.
Julio.

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by hvirtane (hannu_markus_virtanen(at)yahoo(dot)com) on Mon Oct 18th, 2004 at 10:13:58 AM MST
(User Info) http://web.archive.org/web/20050404022706/www.cc.jyu.fi/~hvirtane/cooker/

Here where I am living
every single car
is fitted with the system to
heat with the grid electricity
the cooling fluid. The same
with all the tractors and the
stationary engines.

You might build something similar.
Put a resistor inside the cooling
system.

A very simple way is to use hot water
and rags. Immerse rags in boiling
water and then cover the engine
with those hot rags for a while.

- Hannu

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by DanB (danb@*no spam*otherpower.com) on Mon Oct 18th, 2004 at 10:17:41 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.otherpower.com/

On a cold winter night... they'd turn to ice immediately (wet rags)... youd be chipping them off the engine!

Someday Ill have a little building for it and it may hold some heat. As it is now though - I dont use this every day. I use it for occasional battery charging, for welding, and for pumping water. Probably about 12 hours/week on average so keeping it warm is tricky.

I do think though, when really cold - Ill definitley need to warm it up a bit. A very very little bit of ether works great though down to 20 deg, and probably even below that.

[ Parent ]

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by old55olds on Mon Oct 18th, 2004 at 10:39:46 AM MST
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I experience -30 and -35 quite regularly. Never thought of gasoline before. I will be running my coal heated water(140 degrees) through the cooling system on its way to the house. When its not running I will get a warm lister, when its running I will steal the heat from lister to heat the house. When its cold usually it is cloudy so solar dosn't work and the wind don't work too well either I hope. This winter will tell.
Ken

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by hvirtane (hannu_markus_virtanen(at)yahoo(dot)com) on Mon Oct 18th, 2004 at 11:11:32 AM MST
(User Info) http://web.archive.org/web/20050404022706/www.cc.jyu.fi/~hvirtane/cooker/

On a cold winter night... they'd turn to ice immediately (wet rags)... youd be chipping them off the engine!

I mean that when you will start the engine
you will heat it with hot wet rags.
I've used that method sometimes with
a car engine, when it was -30 Celsius.
So I'm speaking from my experience.
You can also pour hot water on the engine.
It might get icy on some places
but it will definitely also heat
the engine. I know that this trick
works.

Sometimes I couldn't get the car
near the grid line and I had to use
some other methods than electricity.

- Hannu

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by JW on Mon Oct 18th, 2004 at 11:44:26 AM MST
(User Info)

My brother had this car with a coolant system leak, so every now and then he would add some water to the radiator. He had gotten pretty used to it. Anywow, this one day after driving around with some friends, the car over heated. He got home, went in the house and got a huge picher of "ice cold water with ice cubes in it" Thought he was a genius, poured that in the radiator, and well you can guess what happened... But it did cool off faster.... :0

JW

[ Parent ]

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by zmule on Mon Oct 18th, 2004 at 01:29:54 PM MST
(User Info)

Dan, for what it's worth, if it were me, I would continue to use a small amount of ether. Ether with a light top-end lube like WD-40 might be better. If it is going to get too cold for the ether (call me and I will find you a hotel in Florida!), then you gotta add heat to the air or the fuel or both. The gasoline rag sounded funky and dangerous but if it works like they say you could use a safer method for adding the gasoline vapor to the intake. Instead of a rag, perhaps a fuel injector from a junk car tapped into the intake so you could press a button for a second or two, then start...

I don't know what's better...using a more volitile fuel at startup or devising some king of supplimental heat with a battery and glow plug or something. You might try a 12V heating tape on the fuel line. If you can get some heat into the fuel and air shortly before entering the chamber it might be enough to overcome the super-cold temp of the engine and ignite for you. I think what most end up doing in extreme cold is leaving the engine running 24/7 because the daily process of warming up an extremely cold and reluctant diesel can cause alot of wear to occur.

It will be interesting to hear what you end up doing!

[ Parent ]

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#22)
by hvirtane (hannu_markus_virtanen(at)yahoo(dot)com) on Tue Oct 19th, 2004 at 10:23:35 AM MST
(User Info) http://web.archive.org/web/20050404022706/www.cc.jyu.fi/~hvirtane/cooker/

I didn't mean to put hot cooling fluid inside
the cooling system. But that might work as
well, but it is not easy to get some of the cold
cooling fluid out each time. I've been simply
pouring hot water outside on the top of the engine.
You can put the hot water with
wet rags as well,
sometimes I've used that trick
with car engines even at -25 Celsius.

Hot water always works,
if you got enough
hot water available.
With a diesel engine it is easy,
because you don't have any
ignition system to get them wet.

It is not so rare to have
-25 Celsius (= -13 F ?)
in the area of Finland,
where I'm living.

If you've got grid electricity and
your engine isn't fitted with any
electric heating system, one really
easy way is to use an electric
heating blower to heat the engine
block and the air intake. That
works with cars even at -30 Celsius.
I've used 1 kW electric heater.

- Hannu

[ Parent ]

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by 12volt dan (dan12v@hotmail.com) on Mon Oct 18th, 2004 at 04:46:24 PM MST
(User Info)

If it's starting fine go with it (starting fluid) and if it gets too cold your probably right about a building. Thats what I built for the genny here

It's 12' thick cordwood walls are supposed to retain the heat between run cycles which carge batts and heat the house at 40 below temps
11 years off the grid and counting

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by Bill Kichman on Mon Oct 18th, 2004 at 07:55:35 PM MST
(User Info)

Hey, I am glad I found this thread. Am putting together a small home cogen operation using a pair of Lister clones, a 12hp and a 10hp. Running on waste motor and veggie oils. Found that at 70F the thing will start ok on waste oils, but as the temps have dipped lately, I am vying for a heart attack. Glad to see what you folks have done to get things started - please allow me to add my 2 cents worth. This morning it was about 45F, and I took out the propane torch and applied heat directly on the injector casting for about 2 minutes. Then hand cranked it and it started right up. Hadn't thought about the starting fluid but now that you mention it, when I was a Dept of Defense engineer "back in the day" we supported a field computer mainframe setup with an accompanied set of 60kW diesels, and these had a slick little setup whereby a propane bottle sized starter fluid was piped into the air intake and when the engine cranked, a gas solenoid valve left the starter fluid shoot for a few seconds. Really helped on those bitter cold mornings. (or was it propane? can't remember for sure).

My other fix was going to be using a 2 tank system, with regular diesel for starting and shutdown for the next run, using a 3-way solenoid valve to change to waste oils for running. But since I see you folks are using diesel with some trouble cold starting anyway, maybe I will just forego that.

Now what I really need is some advice on how to set up a starter for these beasts. I installed a GM racing lightweight starter and a flex plate behind the generator head pulley, but in initial testing, 12V wouldn't touch it, and 24v may have already burned up the starter motor inside of (2) 45 second starting attempts (before I learned how to cold start).
How can you connect a starter motor to the big flywheel without having the starter motor turn all the time under engine run?
Also what have folks found to be the best install method for installing an automotive alternator? I am thinking about adding mine to the stock belt drive ruunning the stock water pump on these machines. I realize not all Listeroids have these pumps though.
I would appreciate making email contact with others using Listeroids for various uses, to share ideas, my email address is ebayeveryday at comcast dot net (spelled out to avert the web spidies).

[ Parent ]

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by whatsnext on Mon Oct 18th, 2004 at 08:46:41 PM MST
(User Info)

Bill, One way to do what you want is to use a sprauge clutch. It works like a freewheel on a bicycle but can be much tougher. This way you would leave the starting belt turning full time. Look up sprauge clutch and you will see how it works right off. On the starting fluid front. I've always heard that either is bad. I had a Volvo diesel wagon and was told to use WD-40 as though it alone was starting fluid. The Volvo was generly an easy starter but the WD-40 never failed. And, it seemed to start very smoothly. No real sign of hard knocking at all.
John..........

[ Parent ]

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Mon Oct 18th, 2004 at 10:05:38 PM MST
(User Info)

I've always heard that either is bad. I had a Volvo diesel wagon and was told to use WD-40 as though it alone was starting fluid.

Ought to work. It's basically a light oil.

Another possibility: A shot of propane or butane from an unlit propane torch or lighter into the intake. Should be good for a couple pops at least - or keep it flowing to get the engine spinning and warmed up.

(Be careful with that last, though, that if you somehow get a bit of flame out the intake that your don't have enough gas hanging around for more than a pop and that you can yank out the torch if it lights without setting everything nearby on fire.)

[ Parent ]

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by Norm (peppysue@suite224.net) on Mon Oct 18th, 2004 at 09:53:05 PM MST
(User Info)

When I was in the Navy about 50 yrs ago, the 671 GM diesel had an air box on the intake a handpump plus an igniter heated up the intake air, you could do the same thing only use a propane torch to heat the air in the air box...(Large burner tip) shouldn't take much for a small diesel.
( :>)Norm..
( :>) Norm

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by weldingrodd on Mon Oct 18th, 2004 at 09:56:15 PM MST
(User Info)

I have seen WD40 used to start gas engined vehicles at auctions before. I would almost think it would work with in a diesel.(I tried and it works ..actually will run if if sprayed into carb)
As for an engine that wont start aftrer being idle for a while I have a diesel powered truck that if allowed to sit more than 8 hours it would not start without opening and bleeding the fuel system..A small check valve installed at inlet of actual fuel injecton pump stopped the problem...I had used a snort or two of ether to start engine but all have said it was a bad practice!.

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by zmule on Tue Oct 19th, 2004 at 08:45:33 AM MST
(User Info)

I was thinking of a cheap and simple way to electric start a listeroid last night. How about a junk yard starter motor fitted with a small diameter (2" or so) solid rubber castor, like the cheap ones at Harbor freight for $4.99? You could set up a pivot lever at the base of the engine with the starter motor attached. Energize the starter with a button switch on the end of the lever and while it is spinning, bring it against smooth rim of the flywheel and it should get it spinning. When the engine pops, simply release the button and push the lever back or have it spring loaded so it is held away from the flywheel when not needed. A 12V car battery should be enough to get it rolling and can be charged right off the generator. If the diameter is small, the starter should be able to get the flywheel spinning without too much trouble. They make a similar device for bicycles that uses a small friction wheel directly on the tire powered by either a battery or a "chainsaw" engine. I guess you could even use a "chainsaw" engine like a pony motor if you wanted it to be non electric. What do you think?

[ Parent ]

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by JW on Tue Oct 19th, 2004 at 09:02:48 AM MST
(User Info)

All common automotive starters use something called a "bendix". It is the small gear, that extends and intermesh's(enguages) with the flywheel ring gear. As the engine starts to run the ring gear will overdrive the "bendix" causing it to disengauge(retract) from the flywheel ring gear.

JW

[ Parent ]

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#20)
by zmule on Tue Oct 19th, 2004 at 09:20:07 AM MST
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Yeah, I know and you would have to remove the bendix to install the "friction wheel" to the starter shaft, so it may not be so easy after all. There are probably other 12 or 24volt motors you could use in this way. Maybe the Pony-motor would be easier to configure? Or you could take the flywheel to a machine shop and have a ring gear installed..... :)

[ Parent ]

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#21)
by DanB (danb@*no spam*otherpower.com) on Tue Oct 19th, 2004 at 09:32:51 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.otherpower.com/

I'm planning exactly that - a lever, with a motor, and a friction drive. Since we have a compression release, it should get her spinning fine - once spun up nicely, throw the compression release and it should start easily.

Since mine is hooked to a 240VAC alternator - mostly for charging batteries through my Trace inverter, 12 volts is kind of a pain (because the batteries are 200' away). So I'm planning to use a normal 1/2 hp induction motor for a starter because I have AC power from my inverter right at the generator. I think it will work nicely once I get around to doing it.

[ Parent ]

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#23)
by zmule on Tue Oct 19th, 2004 at 10:25:42 AM MST
(User Info)

Cool, then we are thinking along the same lines. Let us know how it works. I will probably use a car battery that gets recharged from the generator output. I have to scout around in the scrap to see what's available. For now though, I will probably just crank it.

[ Parent ]

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#24)
by Bill Kichman on Tue Oct 19th, 2004 at 09:10:06 PM MST
(User Info)

Some additional info I hadn't shared the previous post...I rigged a GM new racing style starter on my 20hp induction generator head(it wouldn't fit close enough on the Lister to mesh with the flex plate I have) and installed the flex plate with an aluminum adapter to the back side of the drive pulley. The flex plate is about 17 inches in diameter. Using 12V the thing wouldn't even turn. So I got another battery (both 925 CCA), kept the starter bendix wired at 12V but used 24V like the big rigs do to start the thing. Was able to spin the engine 6 or 8 revolutions (engine was cold and didn't start - didn't know yet about WD40 or starting fluid :-( and I suspect now that I have cooked the thing already, it draws SERIOUS power turning over the engine but IS able to, in this setup, spin past compression and keep spinning. Need to investigate further whether the motor is damaged, I only ran it about 45 seconds and it quit.

On the rubber drive wheel method, it isn't as easy at is sounds to install a drive wheel on a starter motor with its bendix assembly on the end, but I imagine one could come up with some mod that'd work. I recall recently, hearing or reading somewhere (Mike Montieth maybe accomplished it?) that this had been tried successfully. I like the sprague clutch idea. Need to investigate that further.

Not sure how you would use a small induction motor, as the huge starting current, unless you geared it way down, might be impossible to achieve due to the huge torque requirement, but who knows, that may be the easiest fix, but IT NEEDS AC POWER TO WORK unfortunately - not a viable option for most cases.

[ Parent ]

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#25)
by zmule on Wed Oct 20th, 2004 at 02:07:40 PM MST
(User Info)

Bill, you're idea of installing a flex plate with a ring gear might work but I think the 17" flex plate is too small a diameter to give the starter enough leverage and it is overheating. I wonder if you could find a flexplate with a diameter slightly larger than the flywheel on the Lister, like from an old city bus or similar(auto trans, should have a flexplate?). Then you could take the plate (and the starter that goes with it)and remove the center so it fits over the flywheel shaft. Then drill and tap the lister flywheel so you can bolt the flex plate concentric with the flywheel rim with the teeth of the plate protruding over the edge. Then all you would need is a bracket to hold the starter in place and it should work because the engine it came from likely was harder to turn than the lister. To match a ring gear to the flywheel would be great but I think the friction wheel is much simpler. A small diameter friction wheel keeps the ratio high enough to allow the starter motor or similar motor, to get the lister flywheel turning. you could also use a belt tensioner lever and small pulley on the motor to accomplish the same thing. Primitive but cheap and effective. You mention Mike Montieth might have successfully added an electric start. Have you tried contacting him?

[ Parent ]

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#26)
by srnoth on Wed Oct 20th, 2004 at 09:00:17 PM MST
(User Info)

Hey there,

Just to throw in my two cents.

A while back I was trying to start a pull start 5HP Brigs gas engine, and I got so fed-up with pulling the darn thing that I got out a normal AC handrill, atached the end of an interchangeable rachet spanner to it, so that it could fit onto the nut on my alternator's drive-shaft. The first thing that happened was that the nut just unscewed, so I took some crazy glue, put it on the nut and the shaft, and used the drill to screw it back into place. After waiting about a minute, I tried again, and, with the drill at full power, I was able to get the engine turning over. Eventually I got the engine started (after a lot of tweeking of the throtle and choke while the engine was turning over).

It was a relatively small drill that I used, so I figure if you use a big enough one (like those big ones they use to drill concrete walls) with a big enough inverter (or grid power), then you should be able to turn over a slightly larger engine. The only problem might be that deisels have very high compression. However, this does solve the problem of a clutch and all that. Once the engine fires, just move the drill.

Stephen.

[ Parent ]

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#27)
by Bill Kichman on Wed Oct 20th, 2004 at 10:39:15 PM MST
(User Info)

A drill won't work for me, I am automating this installation to be able to start, stop and very the power output of the genset via computer. The Rayjajeet GM-90 factory has an optional starter setup just like one of you described, its ring gear is slightly larger than the pulley, and bolts to it. I couldn't find a large enough flex plate despite trying. Maybe I will look again at a heavy machinery used parts place in town.

[ Parent ]

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#28)
by listeroidsusa (mdmo@rfci.net) on Fri Dec 3rd, 2004 at 10:01:07 PM MST
(User Info)

I have done a considerable amount of looking for ring gears and flex plates in sizes to fit the Lister type engines. The ones available are coarse diametral pitch and require a MT series truck starter. They also do not give a favorable gear reduction. I have found none suitable here in the US. I purchased a large gear hobber with a 36" diameter and 18" thick gear cutting capacity last week ($$$$!!!). Once I have it in my shop and set up I will be manufacturing ring gears for all the Lister type engines with teeth matching common delco or autolite american starters. This will give approximately a 20:1 ratio to provide plenty of torque to spin the Lister type engines. Due to the slight variations in flywheel diameters the flywheel will need to be machined for the proper shrink fit. My lathe will accomodate flywheels up to 28" in diameter. I will also be building starter and alternator mounting plates. I am engineering these parts to be easy to install and the only machining necessary will be the flywheel. I will also be providing electric starting as an option on the engines I sell.

A alternate way to start the engines is to use a serpentine belt with an old ford starter with the straight shaft and an electric clutch from a a/c compressor. The shaft will have to be machined to fit the a/c clutch. I have found this to work well in warm temps but I have not tried it when it is cold. Use the smallest diameter clutch pulley you can find. The geared starter would be a better option in cold weather. Thd ford straight shaft starters are usually available new on ebay in the $75 range.

I can also retrofit the original style Lister CS engines with a glowplug (best). An intake type glowplug heater such as is used with onan diesel engines would also work well. They are available through NAPA auto parts. The combustion chamber glowplug option should help alleviate starting problems using wvo and wmo.

In the near future I plan to sacrifice a gm-90 head (direct injection) to see whether the casting is thick enough to machine for a glow plug. If this is possible I will alert the board.

Mike Montieth

[ Parent ]

Re: Starting the Listeroid diesel (3.00 / 0) (#29)
by listeroidsusa (mdmo@rfci.net) on Fri Dec 3rd, 2004 at 10:20:30 PM MST
(User Info)

BTW, another inexpensive preheating device is a flame sucker. These are installed in the intake manifold in a 7/8-14 tapped hole. Fuel is supplied by tapping into the injector bleedoff line. It requires 12vdc to run the solenoid and heating element. When 12v is applied the solenoid valve opens admitting fuel and the glow element heats up, igniting the fuel. When starting the engine it sucks the flame into the cylinder, preheating the air. These are very inexpensive. I bought my last on at my local massey furguson tractor dealer for around $12 IIRC. These are standard on perkins 3.152 3 cylinder and 4.203 4 cylinder diesel engines. My MF 65 tractor used one of these.

My .02 worth

Mike Montieth

[ Parent ]

Starting the Listeroid diesel | 29 comments (29 topical, 0 editorial)

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