1 magnet 1 coil
By daleh007, Section Rants & Opinion Posted on Mon Oct 4th, 2004 at 10:13:22 PM MST
Never got to finish experiments and watch those magnets

Sunday after reading Troy's post I thought I would take some of my newly acquired supplies and do some experimenting myself. I wound a 1"x2" holed coil, 80 turns of #15 wire, for my new 1"x2" magnets and set out to duplicate the lathe setup. I placed the magnet on the chuck and stuck the coil on the end of a 2x4 I cut to fit the hole in the coil which was then connected to the tool holder. All was proceeding well until I went to scrape the insulation from the ends of coil. Before I knew it the knife I was using was pulled out of my hand and across my index finger. This ended the experiments as I had a bloody mess to clean up. So now I'm left with some unanswered questions that I hope some of you might answer for me. The scope picture I saw shows a sine wave looking waveform for the 1 magnet and 1 coil setup. What would I have seen if I had added a second magnet 180 degrees from the first? I assume that I would have seen 2 similar waveforms per revolution. What would I have seen if one magnet had a north pole facing out and a south pole facing out? Again, I assume I should have seen 2 waveforms per revolution except one would have positive going start and the next would have negative going start. And next, what happens as I start to add coils in series varying the connections between coil starts and tails? Oh, and would it make any difference if I turned the coils over (front to back)? Daleh

1 magnet 1 coil | 15 comments (15 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: 1 magnet 1 coil (3.00 / 0) (#1) by kurt on Mon Oct 4th, 2004 at 10:25:12 PM MST (User Info)

this is what you woulda seen from your one mag one coil experament perhaps later i will draw multipal mag pics for ya showing y you have to have a nsnsns arangment to the mags when using the coil mag spacing used in single phase radial alts http://www.reresource.org/ IRC

Re: 1 magnet 1 coil (3.00 / 0) (#2) by tecker on Tue Oct 5th, 2004 at 05:25:18 AM MST (User Info)

Don't scrape the enammel off burn it off get it red hot and wipe with a wet towel .    not much use to you now but it only take seconds . Blood deleted

Re: 1 magnet 1 coil (3.00 / 0) (#3) by finnsawyer on Tue Oct 5th, 2004 at 09:11:33 AM MST (User Info)

Everything makes a difference.  If one magnet has N toward the coil and the other has S toward the coil, you would see two more or less identical mirror image waveforms superimposed for Troy's sweep setting.  For a slower sweep setting you would resolve the two waveforms individually with one going positive and the other negative initially.  The two waveforms would be separated by a dead (flat line) zone.  Try it and see if I'm right. GeoM

Re: 1 magnet 1 coil (3.00 / 0) (#4) by wind pirate (nap35dh-at-nospam-yahoodotcom) on Tue Oct 5th, 2004 at 09:45:36 AM MST (User Info)

So if I'm reading you right, to keep a constant sine wave used for ac (adn convert to dc), you wouldn't alternate the magnets N-S-N-S? Now I'm confused... Wind Pirate [ Parent ]

Re: 1 magnet 1 coil (3.00 / 0) (#6) by troy on Tue Oct 5th, 2004 at 11:11:02 AM MST (User Info)

To make a constant sine wave in any normal alternator like we see on this board, you ALWAYS alternate the magnets on the rotor N-S-N-S-N-S unless you're doubling magnets side by side or something else funny. Best regards, troy PS, sorry about the unauthorized departure of red blood cells. tr [ Parent ]

Re: 1 magnet 1 coil (3.00 / 0) (#8) by JW on Tue Oct 5th, 2004 at 01:03:28 PM MST (User Info)

Correct Troy,  The 9/24 magnet coil arrangement seen in the "dual rotor axial machines" Has a consisent difference wheither being obsevered thru the 1st plane(n-s) (horizontil) and the second plane(s-n)(vertical). However one is always behind the other.... There is always a differentation between the two magnetic circuits. "forget about it" with vinnys acent. JW [ Parent ]

Re: 1 magnet 1 coil (3.00 / 0) (#10) by JW on Tue Oct 5th, 2004 at 01:38:36 PM MST (User Info)

Whoop's,  The vertical magnetic circuit is traveling in parallel(simultaniously), and the horizontal circuit is following[always] in refernce to said vector. Hmmm, so,,,, it is possible for two magnetic circuits to interact with one coil simultaniously.. In X vector "ie" only one direction such as a circulicler direction, 45*???? JW [ Parent ]

Re: 1 magnet 1 coil (3.00 / 0) (#11) by JW on Tue Oct 5th, 2004 at 02:12:44 PM MST (User Info)

Yes,  The two opposing "magnet rotors" of a 'dual rotor machine' have opposite potarity, between the opposing magnetic fields[one each] facing each other, in reference too the magnet(s) "ideally" 'indexed'... between the 'even' number of magnets on each plate, with an n-s arrangement(such as 12)related between the two rotor plates. Last i checked there is only one stator with this arrangement, and a 3-4 ratio is compatable... Please forgive me i just could not resist, this is good stuff. JW [ Parent ]

Re: 1 magnet 1 coil (3.00 / 0) (#12) by troy on Tue Oct 5th, 2004 at 03:28:54 PM MST (User Info)

And a resounding YES!  On a dual rotor machine, the other fact we can say with absolute authority is that when speaking about one pair of magnets that exactly face each other, one on rotor A and one on rotor B, one will have a N pole showing and the other will have a S pole showing, such that the two magnets (and the two rotors for that matter) attract each other. And trust me, when you assemble these highly powerful neodymium magnetic arrays on the two opposing rotors, you want to mind your p's and q's or you'll pinch your finger right off into the netherworld.   Have a lovely day and always play safe! troy [ Parent ]

Re: 1 magnet 1 coil (3.00 / 0) (#14) by finnsawyer on Wed Oct 6th, 2004 at 10:19:17 AM MST (User Info)

Troy should have shown two of the waveforms on his scope.  You would have seen a dead zone between waveforms.  With the magnets NNNN.. you need a spacing between them so that both sides of the coil aren't over a magnet at the same time.  If they are the voltages induced in them will cancel.  If the spacing is right you can get a sine wave out.  In order to make this work, however, you need another row of magnets on the other side of the coils arranged SSSS..  It's just another way of doing it. GeoM [ Parent ]

Re: 1 magnet 1 coil (3.00 / 0) (#5) by kurt on Tue Oct 5th, 2004 at 09:46:31 AM MST (User Info)

http://www.reresource.org/ IRC

Re: 1 magnet 1 coil (3.00 / 0) (#7) by daleh007 on Tue Oct 5th, 2004 at 12:19:23 PM MST (User Info)

So, I assume that the two coils you show are in series and this would effectivly double the size/voltage of a single magnet/coil waveform? Daleh [ Parent ]

Re: 1 magnet 1 coil (3.00 / 0) (#13) by troy on Tue Oct 5th, 2004 at 03:33:50 PM MST (User Info)

Yes Dale, the voltages in this arrangement would be additive. All the best, troy PS, kurts pics are dead on accurate. thanks to kurt [ Parent ]

Re: 1 magnet 1 coil (3.00 / 0) (#9) by Chester on Tue Oct 5th, 2004 at 01:14:15 PM MST (User Info)

It's pretty clear to me, after a lot of expermenting with it, that the magnet and coil wave intermesh like this: Peak voltage occurs when the center of the magnet and center of the coil are in alignment. The wave changes polarity when the NSNS magnets pass the coils. With NNNN, you still get the wave, it simply doesn't change polarity. With NSNS you get as much as twice the pulse rate, hence additional voltage. If you have two coils and one magnet, you will get a long 0 voltage line between widely spaced pulses, just as finsawyer predicts. If you have two magnets equally spaced NS energizing two coils connected in series equally space, the voltage will simply be cancelled out.

Re: 1 magnet 1 coil (3.00 / 0) (#15) by Electric Ed on Sat Oct 9th, 2004 at 10:58:46 AM MST (User Info) http://www.electric-ed.com

Typical single phase AC sine wave generation is illustrated below. If the magnets shown as South poles were removed from the arrangement shown, south poles would form in that location anyway, as a consequence of North poles existing in their present locations. The waveform would still be the same, but the voltage would be lower with the weaker field. EE

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