Go to Otherpower.com Home Page Go to Forcefield Shopping Cart Go to Wondermagnet.com Home Page
Front Page - [Homebrewed Electricity-- (wind) (solar) (hydro) (steam) (controls) (storage) (mechanical)] - Classifieds - Site News
Everything - Newbies - [Remote Living-- (housing) (heat) (light) (water)] - Reviews - Diaries - Our Products
Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell


By zmoz, Section Homebrewed Electricity
Posted on Wed Nov 10, 2004 at 06:10:01 PM MST
Will my generator stink up the whole neighborhood?

I've posted a few other questions about this...I plan on getting a ~20hp diesel engine and running it on biodiesel to heat my house and make my electricity. It will obviously be running quite often to do that. I live in a newer subdivision, with neighbors only about 25' away from where my generator will be. The only thing I'm worried about right now is the smell. Will I stink up the neighborhood? I mean, just mowing my lawn makes the whole area smell of exhaust. (though my lawnmower is much less efficient than a diesel engine) Should I maybe pipe the exhaust up to my roof? (2 story house)
Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell | 19 comments (19 topical)

Re: Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by Norm on Wed Nov 10, 2004 at 08:47:39 PM MST

  How quiet is it? At 25 ft. I'd be wondering what my neighbor would have to say about the sound...
  My air-conditioner is about 50 ft. from my neighbors bedroom window and he has mentioned that he heard my air-conditioner running (polite way of saying that it kept him awake) so I can imagine what he would do and say if it was a diesel running...
               ( :>) Norm.  
( :>) Norm


Re: Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by Ex Mek on Thu Nov 18, 2004 at 04:40:55 AM MST

 my advice is to use a  thick wall stack pipe ,cast iron drain pipe works well , and does not resonate like steel can, though a problem i came across was that the exhaust conensed on the inside of the pipe and in real cold weather iced up the pipe ,( took a while to figure out why it croaked)i put a small drain tap in the botom of the pipe where it turned up alongside the house chimney and left it  just open to drain the water into a bucket, the pipe is about 2 feet higher than the top of the chimney and i havnt smelled it yet .

[ Parent ]


Re: Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by whatsnext on Wed Nov 10, 2004 at 09:17:23 PM MST

I agree with Norm. The noise will be a much larger issue then the smell. Your engine will not burn that much fuel but it will make a bunch of noise unless you put a much better muffler than the pepper can it comes with. Are you planning on running the gen all the time or just to recharge your battery bank? I talked to a guy who has 40 years of diesel time in about my upcoming 2-71 project. He said his general rule of thumb is 30% each for mechanical eff, exhaust heat, and cooling system output. The other 10% is kinetic energy, or noise. So plan on about 1500 watts of noise when your gwn is running at full power which hopefully will be very rarely. I've got a nearby home also so that is a big concern of mine. I used to work for Libby and even their quietest gens still produced a bunch of low frequency stuff that was easy to pick up.
John....



Re: Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by zmoz on Wed Nov 10, 2004 at 11:46:28 PM MST

I plan on going to great lengths to keep the noise down. I will probably be putting this inside my garage, first of all. I haven't completely figured out what I'm going to do, but I will build some sort of thick, insulated enclosure around it. It will certainly have a better muffler than it comes with, and that's another reason why I'm thinking of piping the exhaust up to my roof. It will also be a very slow speed engine. When my friend comes over with his 5.9L Cummins Dodge pickup I can't hear it inside my house - and it's not very enclosed or muffled. (not to mention huge compared to the engine I will be using)



Re: Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by Norm on Thu Nov 11, 2004 at 05:31:40 AM MST

When my friend comes over with his 5.9L Cummins Dodge pickup I can't hear it inside my house -
...but then he isn't running it about 1400rpm under load either
  Not against your project ...just a thought I had when you said that...
  Now if you can get the exhaust to smell like donuts.....
              ( :>) Norm
( :>) Norm
[ Parent ]


Re: Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by nobicus on Thu Nov 11, 2004 at 12:27:45 AM MST

Biodiesel gives an exhaust smell like french fries.  This, to my mind, is inoffensive.  To the lady trying to lose a dress size and eating only boiled cauliflower and shredded celery (or whatever the latest fad diet is) the smell of french fries cooking will drive her mad.(Even though it isnt french fries its only you cooking up some home electrics!!).
Because of what I believe I would take my neighbours to one side and very quietly explain about Peak Oil and then offer to help them to do what you are doing.  Don't forget also the benefit of collecting the radiator and exhaust heat!!



Re: Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by zmoz on Thu Nov 11, 2004 at 12:50:38 AM MST

Yeah, I've heard biodiesel doesn't smell bad, but I still don't want my yard smelling like a McDonalds. :-) I don't know my neighbors at all, and as weird as this whole idea is I don't think I'll be talking to them about it...

[ Parent ]


Re: Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by troy on Thu Nov 11, 2004 at 10:09:07 AM MST

The noise and vibration are the big issues for my setup.  The biodiesel doesn't smell bad, certainly a huge improvement over stinky old dino-diesel.  

The low frequency sound has been a real bear to fix.  My exhaust sound is hardly anything.  It goes through eight feet of insulated exhaust pipe, then through a gas water heater to reclaim the heat, then through a car muffler and finally outside.  But the very low frequency sound, ie vibration from my six horse lister was amazing.  It rattled my dishes.  It rattled my neighbor's dishes too.  That was with a rubber isolated frame under the motor/generator.  I finally chopped a 2'x 4' hole in the cement slab and poured an independent slab that's one foot thick and surrounded on all sides by 1" white styrofoam.  THAT pretty much fixed it for the neighbors, although you can still feel it in my house.

More fun than a barrel of monkeys...

troy

[ Parent ]



Re: Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by finnsawyer on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 09:45:25 AM MST

The hell it is. In my experience other people's cooking smells can be nauseous.  When I run my diesel tractor in the barn (40 x 54 feet), hooking or unhooking implements, I can hardly stand it even with the big doors open.  With the nearest neighbor 25 feet away he is going to have a problem.  It sounds like it's time for him to move.
GeoM
[ Parent ]


Re: Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by troy on Sat Nov 13, 2004 at 08:40:41 AM MST

Dear Finsawyer,

And your tractor odors are while you are running biodiesel?

Best regards,

troy

[ Parent ]



Re: Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by finnsawyer on Sat Nov 13, 2004 at 09:34:04 AM MST

No, regular diesel.  I don't care what you're using, you're still going to have fumes and while you might like it there's no reason to assume your neighbor is going to.  I think one thing the UVO people aren't taking into account is that there are going to be byproducts of combustion that are going to be objectionable.  Simply put, I have never seen a case where such products are not.
GeoM
[ Parent ]


Re: Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by troy on Sat Nov 13, 2004 at 10:48:37 AM MST

My neighbor doesn't seem to object, and you could almost pass a teacup from house to house through the windows (slight exageration, but only slight.)

But that may have more to do with the fact that I snowblow her sidewalks every winter too...

Best,

troy

[ Parent ]



Re: Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by finnsawyer on Sun Nov 14, 2004 at 09:57:00 AM MST

Well, I guess you're lucky.  But not everybody is.  I've had my share of problems with neighbors and I live in the country.  Best regards.
GeoM
[ Parent ]


Re: Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by MelTx on Thu Nov 11, 2004 at 09:29:38 AM MST

    Hello.  I tried to slience a 5 hp gasoline-alt rig, after a few attempts the final solution was fairly easy. I channeled the exaust into a 5 gallon bucket of water.This made the exaust noise almost nill,however the mechanical noise was still there.Belive it or not halve of the noise a small engine makes is the... pulleys lifters...cams..etc...The point is a diesel is all noise without the exaust.I live in a close-in area too.If ran a diesel here I would probly spend half my time in noise-prison.Solar or wind might be better.



Re: Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by zmoz on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 02:28:11 AM MST

Regardless of the sound...do you guys think the smell will be a problem? Will I be able to smell it at all unless I'm near the exhaust pipe?

As for the sound, I'll build a 2' thick concrete wall around it with a 1/2" steel liner if I have to. :-)



Re: Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by troy on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 07:23:06 AM MST

If smell were the only make or break issue, and you're running biodiesel, I'd go for it.

Best,

troy

[ Parent ]



Re: Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by Bill Kichman on Wed Nov 17, 2004 at 08:33:07 PM MST

I am doing just what you propose, and felt the same as you do - come hell or high water you will make it work to everyone's satisfaction.  Here is what I have done so far, but first a little background.  I am in a residential neighborhood also, but the nearest house is about 250 feet from the exhaust pipe.  I run a slow speed Lister clone part of the day to offset electric use and generate heat.  My exhaust pipe contains an aftermarket catalytic converter whcih greatly cleans up the exhaust smoke.  Generates a lot of heat too.  Then afterwards is a custom heat exchanger consisting of an 8" well casing enclosing a domestic copper coil which picks up heat and baffles the exhaust a bit more.  Add a tractor type exhaust muffler, then the 2-1/2" pipe extends vertically 35 feet above grade and the exhaust exits.  Kinda looks like a flagpole.  Makes a bit of noise yet, much like the distant flap-flap of a helicopter's blades but not objectionable at all.  Compared to what I started out with, this even satisfies my better half's concerns, so I am sure it isn't a problem now.  I cannot smell the exhaust any more but certainly smell the wood stove exhaust every time I leave the house.   I asked the closest neighbor whether they smell or hear it and their response was favorable.  So it can be done.  By the way, my first exhaust muffling technique was a major catastrophe.  It was recommended by a scientist presently living in Belize, of all places, to route the exhaust gas underground through a dirt tunnel at least 20 feet, then vertically through a stack about 4" diameter along a tree or pole, to mask the noise and smell.  Well, the exhaust percolated up through the ground at many places, despite a concrete poured cover. Talk about stink! Bad and expensive solution.

Keep in mind that the slower speed engines will live longer - simple physics, slower run means longer life.  Also don't oversize a diesel.  They want to run hot and near or at full load, ideally.  Otherwise wet stacking and wash down, both maladies of diesels, may occur.  Good luck in whatever you do, but I recommend you don't piss off the neighbors, you still gotta live there, and there's nothing quite like the added stress of living near people who despise you.  Cheers



Re: Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by Bill Kichman on Wed Nov 17, 2004 at 08:38:09 PM MST

One more thing, you had mentioned about making a steel and concrete enclosure...that wouldn't help as much as an enclosure with sound deadening materials like fiberglass batt or sheet.  Take a look at how commercial gensets are done.  They enclose the thing, use a higher grade quiter muffler, and use baffles so the rushing combustion and cooling air must travel over-under-over a baffle so the noise gets absorbed rather than directly radiated.  Underground would help, but it adds too much hassle in servicing, etc.  You could do it pretty cheap with weather resistant plywood and fiberglass batt or ceiling tiles for example.  Just my thoughts.

[ Parent ]


Re: Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by number42 on Tue Jul 05, 2005 at 07:18:45 AM MST

Just a few comments about sound proofing and not reinventing the wheel. To quiet a piece of equipment operating in a garage or shed is easier said than done and many materials that one might think are effective actually are not. Do a web search for sound proofing and you'll learn a great deal as well as what products might be available in your area. Many of the companies that sell sound proofing materials like Acousti-bloc are loaded with design and contruction information. Perhaps a two stage approach is worth considering.

First, the engine itself can be enclosed and sound proofed using the same material used on pleasure boat engine compartments. It is relatively thin, heat resistent, and done properly dramatically reduces transmitted noise. It's readily available from most chandleries and not too costly. If it's air-cooled then it's a problem because you've got to have vents or ducts to provide cooling. That's my problem, but I'm in a marina that operates diesel engines all day so no sweat.

Second, the garage or shed needs to be modified to serve as a "disconnect" to the noise. This is done with a sound absorbing barrier that cannot have any holes or gaps in it and, ideally, no connections that can serve as sound conducters across the barrier. The best material for this is one that is often used in studios. It is incredibly dense. It is only about 1/16th inch thick, heavy (1-2 lbs per square foot), and resembles a blend of lead and rubber. It is by far the most effective sound deadener money can buy. It should be hung loosely, if possible, between partitions and form a complete seal. It works by absorbing the acoustic energy rather than reflecting it back.

Your engine and generator set needs to be installed on an isolated platform to prevent conducting the sound through the floor and outside the confinement. Steal a secret from the Navy's submarine fleet and use floating decks to isolate the equipment. These are floors that rest on rubber mounts. Should be able to rig a simple imitation by slicing up a tire with an angle cutter so that you have a number of U-shaped sections. Bolt the rim side down to your floor and the tread side to your platform. Use enough to support all the weight, which could be quite a few. Whatever solution you choose, avoid using fasteners that will simply conduct acoustic energy around the dampers.

Cheers from the edge of the universe...

[ Parent ]



Stationary diesel engine and exhaust smell | 19 comments (19 topical)
Display: Sort:
Menu
· create account
· How to use the board
· FAQs
· search the board
· Google search the board

Login
Make a new account
Username:
Password:

Total Views
  91 Scoop users have viewed this posting.

Related Links
· Also by zmoz

Powered by Scoop
You must be a registered user to post here. It's easy and free, and the link is on the upper right side of your page.
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Postings are owned by the poster, but may be deleted or moved at the ADMIN's sole discretion. The Rest © 2009 Forcefield.
You can Email the board ADMIN here. PLEASE include the username you signed up with!