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Making oil from wood and grass
By skravlinge, Section Remote Living Posted on Mon Dec 20, 2004 at 07:44:46 AM MST
Fast pyrolysis

We were discussing pyrolysis, making gas from wood here before. There are processes to fabricate oil from biomass as well. I have heard of experimental plants, during the oil shortages in the 1970th, and during my time working as printer we printed a theses publication of making oil from biomass. A search on the net find evidence this methods got focus again.
The methods wary, but to simplify it, it is to in abcents of air, heat the biomass in the temperature rang of 450 to 550 centigrades, just for seconds, and then cool it, the hydrocarbon and lignin will when not process to gas in a wide extent, rather stay in a mix of differnt carbonhydoges, alcohols and other carbon-bindings. This is a liquid which properties to be used as fuel. The output can typically be 70% oil, some gas, tar and asch. Some methods try to put the amount of char gas oil so the gas or/and char can heat the biomass, so make the process going on after start. I just think the idea can be useful, but do not today know how to simply process it in a small scale. It might be difficullt, but the process sounds not too complicated. Using "Flash pyrolysis" as search you will find the topics on the net. Anybody here tried or thought about this?

Making oil from wood and grass | 14 comments (14 topical)

Re: Making oil from wood and grass (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by nothing to lose on Mon Dec 20, 2004 at 01:00:52 AM MST

It sounds interesting, but I have no idea what I would even do with crude oil if I had my own well let alone produced it this way.

Would be good if instead of burning leaves and rotton wood people could use a solar collecter for the heat to make this and then sell it to the oil companies at OPEC prices per barrel :)

Still not enviormently freindly, but renewable oil would still be nice.

How does a person make gasoline from oil anyway?? I mean I wouldn't mind opening an oil change shop, get free waste oil, make my own gasoline. Make money and save money at the same time!!
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.

Re: Making oil from wood and grass (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by skravlinge on Mon Dec 20, 2004 at 01:16:47 AM MST

This oils, is not as raw petrol it runs a diesel , stirling or any engine taking vegoil. heat a house ,can make a hot meal.
Easy to store and transport. You are right, concentrated solar ray can start the flash.
I do not know for sure if it is corresive for a diesel, as the ph is low, but it is low in sulphur and nitro.
-- Always find the typos after posting!
[ Parent ]

Re: Making oil from wood and grass (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by TomW on Mon Dec 20, 2004 at 08:19:44 AM MST

NTL;

How does a person make gasoline from oil anyway??

You might try a search for fractional distillation to find out how they extract such a wide range of goodies from crude oil. Not very DIY but actually quite simple.
T

The Truth is the Truth, even if no one believes it; and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it

[ Parent ]

Re: Making oil from wood and grass (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by skravlinge on Mon Dec 20, 2004 at 08:36:27 AM MST

As I know the oil from flash pyrolysis is hardly impossible to fractional distill, as the gasifiering will go further and the molecyles break down. The oil has use as it is.
-- Always find the typos after posting!
[ Parent ]

Re: Making oil from wood and grass (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by TomW on Mon Dec 20, 2004 at 09:59:45 AM MST

skravlinge;

If you read closely you will see i said "crude oil".

The Truth is the Truth, even if no one believes it; and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it

[ Parent ]

Re: Making oil from wood and grass (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by skravlinge on Mon Dec 20, 2004 at 10:56:43 AM MST

I use to read closley, otherwise I do not understand at all, sometimes it dont help. I have leraned some more English! :) .
-- Always find the typos after posting!
[ Parent ]

Re: Making oil from wood and grass (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by Opera House on Mon Dec 20, 2004 at 12:59:05 PM MST

A little off topic. I would have thought there would be a very active group here that burns wood chips into basically carbon monoxide to run four cycle engines. After all, that only takes a garbage can and an old radiator. People have been using these for 75 years or more to power vehicles.

Re: Making oil from wood and grass (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by skravlinge on Mon Dec 20, 2004 at 01:26:27 PM MST

I know, we had half the cars on it during WW2, and you find still some using it for cars. Its aginst the ruls, but the ruls do not count for cars before made 1974. There are not any regulations on biooil so newer cars will do.
-- Always find the typos after posting!
[ Parent ]

Re: Making oil from wood and grass (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by rotornuts on Mon Dec 20, 2004 at 01:29:46 PM MST

How about taking the wood, grass, leaves, household wastes, sewage(touchy subject)and anything else biodegradable mix it in the proper proportions based on carbon/nitrogen ratios and throw it in an anerobic digester to yield methane and fertilizer?

[ Parent ]

Re: Making oil from wood and grass (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by skravlinge on Mon Dec 20, 2004 at 01:43:45 PM MST

I have tried it on a very small scale as experiment. A barriel of gas at low pressure takes you noy far away, it is so you can make coffe for four, four days.
The problem on a small scale is to keep the container at 35 centigrades all the time, and its not liquid. We have farmers producing gas, but the plants are bigger than I can handle. They make gas for all theire needs of energy including electricy. Most of them use manure from their animals, as the fertilizer can be of use as well after using it for gas.
-- Always find the typos after posting!
[ Parent ]

Re: Making oil from wood and grass (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by skravlinge on Mon Dec 20, 2004 at 01:51:08 PM MST

By the way I use the wast from the houshold to produce fertilizer, but I compost using worms, and got a good meal for my chickens, The live exellent on worms and grains, what the find and some of the wast wich I do not put to the worms.
-- Always find the typos after posting!
[ Parent ]

Re: Making oil from wood and grass (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by walsdos on Mon Dec 20, 2004 at 07:14:44 PM MST

Seasons Greetings One and all,
rotornuts....Making bio-gas (methane) economically reputedly takes the manure from 300 cows.As someone noted,maintaining a steady temperature without losing all the heat is the trick to succesful methane production.

[ Parent ]

Re: Making oil from wood and grass (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by rotornuts on Tue Dec 21, 2004 at 01:13:59 AM MST

Depending on whether you use a mesophilic or thermopilic as you said you must maintian 35 or 55 degrees celcius for 15-30 or 12-14 days. after the process has begun you use a portion of the biogas produced to assist in maintianing temp. The the bacteria themselves will produce heat as well during early stages as most composters are aware.

Nevertheless your right, economy of scale applies here as well. Co-operatively a group would make it feasable as with most other ideas such as bio-diesel etc.

[ Parent ]

Re: Making oil from wood and grass (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by juiced on Thu Jan 13, 2005 at 12:56:18 AM MST

A group contributing to a single recieving genny that powers water pump, school, etc...

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Making oil from wood and grass | 14 comments (14 topical)

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