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Low Cogging Alternator Design?


By finnsawyer, Section Homebrewed Electricity
Posted on Mon Mar 8th, 2004 at 11:26:29 AM MST
lowcogalt.jpg

When considering the cogging problem, I became aware of a class of alternators.  A simple example is shown below.  The magnets move cc as indicated inducing the three voltage waveforms in the copper wires as seen below the figure.  The sum of the three voltages (connect them together) is a single phase waveform having six cycles per revolution.  The wedges to the centers of the copper wires sweep out 30 degrees.  I made the magnets circular for clarity.  Wedge shaped ones would give greater output.  Finally the "copper wires" made be replaced by coils.

In general this type of alternator would consist in the basic configuration of an odd number of coils and an even number of magnets.  The wedge angles are equal to 360/(# coils x # magnets).  The number of cycles per revolution is equal to
# coils x # magnets/2.  For instance 5 coils and 6 magnets give 12 degrees and 15 cycles.  At 200 rpm this becomes 50 herz, which could be fed into a step up transformer.  9 coils and 8 magnets give 5 degrees and 36 cycles (60 herz at 100 rpm).

Of course, this is not the end.  The number of coils in our example below can be doubled for still more output (confused yet).  The new coils are in the same relationship to the magnets as the originals so the frequency does'nt change.
Nor does the wedge angle.  You can't double the number of magnets, however, without  changing the wedge angle.  

Low Cogging Alternator Design? | 6 comments (6 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Low Cogging Alternator Design? (none / 0) (#1)
by bob g on Mon Mar 8th, 2004 at 11:53:15 AM MST
(User Info)

i just have a couple of observations to make, perhaps i am wrong
  1. you can dramatically reduce cogging just by using the differing poles, ie. 8 rotor vs 6 stator, or something like that.
  2. with each of the 3 phases producing 1 full cycle out of phase by 120 degrees of each other, and each of these full cycles being interupted by 1/2 cycle, are you not effectively reducing the overall output by 50 percent all things being equal?
it would appear to me that for each phase you get a complete cycle, then a 1/2 cycle gap. so combining the 3 phases you get three full cycles, and 3 half cycle gaps, i guess that works out to 2 out of 3 or a loss of not 50 percent but one of 33.3 percent.
i guess that is like trying to figure profit, going from a convensional alternator to this scheme would appear to be a loss of 33.3 percent, and going from the proposed design to a convensional design would net you a  50 percent increase in power, all things being equal.

i guess i can get my mind wrapped around this being a way to remove cogging, but it still looks to me like you end up loosing half the power. hmmmmm am i missing something here? don't get me wrong, i like the overall idea, but i guess i need to think it thru more or have someone either back up my concern or show me where i am wrong.

just my thoughts and concerns, anyone else?

bob g



Re: Low Cogging Alternator Design? (none / 0) (#2)
by RobD on Mon Mar 8th, 2004 at 04:37:50 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.dsgnspec.com

I just finished an alternator design that I did a lot of testing on with respect to cogging.
The alt. is single phase with 18 poles and 18 magnets. I initially tried 18 fields with 18 magnets spaced on a core of 19 divisions. While it worked I did get some cancellation. I found the best system was to use 18 fields and 18 magnets spaced for an 18.3 division spacing. I do get a small amount of cogging but it's a good compromise between power and cogging. I'll post the final mill when the blades are done.
RobD



Re: Low Cogging Alternator Design? (none / 0) (#3)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2004 at 05:40:26 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

  Rob,
    This sounds just about the same way I've been doing mine with the exception of adding 2 more sets of coils.  ( In your case - 18 magnets and 54 coils ).  I like the idea of the 18.3 spacing, I'll have to try that on one of mine to see if it cuts the cogging a little...  sounds cool... looking forward to seeing it!

Windstuff Ed

Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]



Re: Low Cogging Alternator Design? (none / 0) (#4)
by JW on Mon Mar 8th, 2004 at 06:16:51 PM MST
(User Info)

This is some advanced introspection going on here.

 Finsawyer, nice drawing representing the arrangement of four magnets to three coils... The 9 coil by 12 magnet (actually 24) arangement is most easily understood thru your illustration. in the diagrams i've seen(w/the 9 coil schmatic) all three coils there, make a single phase in series, and each one should produce a waveform with the integrity you illustrate for V1+V2+V3. so then each "phase" is as you describe (as V1+V2+V3) has eceptional integrity, combine the three(with the 9 coil/12mag arrangement) and the alt does not clog... a true three phase poly phase sine wave output. the key is angular setting of the coil, within magnet "center" for each "four magnet"  configuration, relative to 'its' phase, x3.

 -JW

[ Parent ]



Re: Low Cogging Alternator Design? (none / 0) (#5)
by JW on Mon Mar 8th, 2004 at 06:44:23 PM MST
(User Info)

    I would imagion that the diameter or the rotating magnet assy plays a large role in phesability of construction or concept. for example most 9/12 coil magnet assy's are 11inch in diam w/ a thickness of about 2". It is entirely possible that a 'four' phase poly phase sine wave could be generated with the appropriate coil /magnet configuration or larger dia. and according coil/mag arrangement

-JW

[ Parent ]



Re: Low Cogging Alternator Design? (none / 0) (#6)
by RobD on Mon Mar 8th, 2004 at 09:27:35 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.dsgnspec.com

Here's an idea of what I'm doing.
Notice where the two magnets (gray) and the two fields line up. This is a single phase machine with two windings on each field. The top magnet is directly in the field and the magnet to the right, which is the furthest north magnet in the division is just past the next to last south field. This is about the best I can do before canceling starts to enter into the design.

 At low wind speed the windings will be in series giving me 120 windings at 2.55 ohms. once the voltage reaches a specific point the windings are switched to parallel for 60 windings at 1.25 ohms. The wire is 24 ga. This is a very small light alt. but it puts out 75 watts. The magnets are very small (.2x.2x.4") and the diameter of the field is only two inches. I will run the blades at about 1 meter. I'll be making a larger machine with much bigger magnets once the final design proves out.
RobD





Low Cogging Alternator Design? | 6 comments (6 topical, 0 editorial)
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